MOTOBRICK.COM
TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: colly on April 08, 2016, 04:46:33 AM
-
I just bought a 1983 K100 which had been off the road for 3 years. The guy told me it had been running when he took it off the road. I changed the oil and oil filter, drained the gas out of the tank, put in a new fuel filter, and put in a new Odyssey battery. The bike would turn over but it would not start. I can hear the fuel pump whirring loudly. A few times it could 'chug' once or twice as if it was about to start but it didn't.
Last night we changed the spark plugs but still nothing. We checked they were sparking and they were wet so it is getting fuel. We then took out the injectors and gave them a good clean. We cranked it when they were out to verify they were spraying ok. Putting everything back together - and then when we try to start it - it often 'chugs' the first two times but not much after that.
I've just seen post 1,2 and 3 on No Start so I'll try that - but from the above does it sound like it could be anything else?
Thanks
Edit: This is a video of the injectors - do they look ok?
https://youtu.be/NbsUlnM3Kqs
-
Sub'd.
I'm helping colly work on the bike with a few other friends.
-
greetings spray_____...
who are your friends...
o'haras smithwicks porterhouse beamish kilkenny harp murphys and the blarney sisters...
j o
-
We'll be celebrating with all of those once we get her started Johnny!
For now, any other ideas on what to try??
-
follow this troubleshooting chart to try isolating the problem (http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/bike-wont-start1.htm)
-
I had a similar problem this Spring after working on my K75. Turned out it was a connection under the tank for the ignition. Took me a long time to find it because even with it disconnected I was getting a spark, but it wasn't strong enough to fire under full compression. As a result, I would get a pop or chug on the first spark, but nothing after that.
-
Thanks Guys - Johnny I'll have a look through that chart, thanks.
Gryphon, i really hope it's this simple. I'll take the tank off and look for this connection, will it be obvious?
-
I'll take the tank off and look for this connection, will it be obvious?
Yes. Just trace the wires from the switch down to the harness.
-
There is a small four-pin connector linking the tank to the bikes wiring. It provides power for the fuel pump and sending to the fuel level lights. If the pump is working you are connected. 1)Check your starter relay with a meter to see if you have output voltage. 2) Try starting with the clutch pulled in and side stand retracted.
-
Hi again, I was away for a while however today we finally managed to try working on the bike again. I followed the sticky instructions 1,2 and 3, cleaned all the connectors and the ground. Tried it again and it definitely was better, however when I sprayed in the easy start - she fired right up. I was delighted! Only problem is she dies a few seconds later. Managed to do this a few times but it would not keep running. Once we heard a big of a bang and some smoke rose from the engine, not sure why.
Tried many times more, at one stage I was able to get it running without the Easy Start, on what seemed like incredibly low revs, it turned over for good few seconds just gurgling slowly,but then it would cut out.
So I'm guessing a fuel problem. Can anyone give me some pointers?
Thanks
-
Check the tank output fuel line to be sure the fuel pump is pumping fuel to the injector rail. Maybe the fuel pump hoses aren't routed properly...........sounds like the motor isn't getting adequate fuel to run.
-
id keep it on a battery tender while messing with it... low power can cause all kinds of wack too...
-
Battery was freshly charged so I don't think its that. It's starting when spraying No Start in the airbox but won't run so its a fuel issue, I'm just not sure what exactly. Fuel pump I can hear whirring quite loudly. I checked the injectors already I think they are OK. What else could it be?
Check the tank output fuel line to be sure the fuel pump is pumping fuel to the injector rail. Maybe the fuel pump hoses aren't routed properly...........sounds like the motor isn't getting adequate fuel to run.
Ok thanks what should I do to test this exactly?
-
What else could it be?
Check for the correct spark plug lead connections to the coils—Section 3 in the image of text from the Haynes Manual on this site in the Technical Library.
-
To check fuel supply, be sure the two hoses on the right forward side of the tank are hooked to the proper stem. The hose which shoots gas out under strong pressure should be routed to the fuel injectors. Your pump may be running, but it's output may not be to the correct hose. You only got two choices for plugging hose to spigot. Duh, also, do this somewhere you ain't gonna ignite gas!
-
I have been known to spend a couple hours on a bike that showed a spark at the plug but would not run. New plugs, WHAMMO.
mouses in the airbox?
Really, the topic Johnny suggested is the way to go.
The human always wins these encounters.
Please recycle the refreshment containers....um I mean refill
tom
-
Check air box
Is fuel old?
Is there water in gas tank?
Change fuel filter
Open tank cap and while cranking look for leaks from hoses and connections
Check routing of fuel lines
Check pressure to fuel manifold
Check injectors are spraying
Good luck
2014 CB1100 DLX
2013 CB1100 Std
1990 BMW K75 RT
-
When I replaced my Porsche injectors, they would never squirt like a squirt gun and leave a "spot". The shot like the finest perfume atomizer u have ever seen. You actually had to look for the mist it was so fine.
It's the gaseous state that explodes well, not the liquid state.
tom
-
on rebuildable injectors, I remove the round seals, which probably will break if old, soak them overnite in acetone, covered with foil to prevent evaporation, agitate and toothbrush, blow out with air, then replace the rubber rings and check them on a battery with fuel. The mist should be incredibly fine and just almost dissipate into the air. (no smoking)
tom
-
Thanks for all the replies everyone. Have been too busy to work on the bike but we are going to have another look at this tomorrow night - I will test all the suggestions given. I hope it's something simple like the fuel pump. I'm told its common for them to fail when the bike has been sitting for a few years.
One question. From watching videos online of K100's starting, my bike makes a strange noise sometimes that I have not heard from other bikes - you can kind of hear it at the very end of theses videos: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/XdYQcPNzzelpfxGlRg1RnfprBvGA9qeM4FXW4h1rn6TOImYp6PeuXigWpqKdWEpl/file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/E98NmIKLH86ZL19DcwpY2b3W6idtYoutv4O3olISagzWpFjbe8ToStc326AtVHhg/file
It happens after the bike cuts out. I assume this is the fuel pump. Does it sound normal? If it's making the noise is it ok, or could it still not be working properly? I found one on ebay so ready to buy but tomorrow I'll test the pressure to see what it's like.
Here is a video of when we managed to get it to tick over a little: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjrg3zbomb4cx90/2016-04-27%2014.14.40.mp4?dl=0 - I'm not sure why it was able to do this that one time.
-
Thanks for all the replies everyone. Have been too busy to work on the bike but we are going to have another look at this tomorrow night - I will test all the suggestions given. I hope it's something simple like the fuel pump.
Here is a video of when we managed to get it to tick over a little: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjrg3zbomb4cx90/2016-04-27%2014.14.40.mp4?dl=0 - I'm not sure why it was able to do this that one time.
The first two links give me error messages. In the last link, the whine when it cuts out is typical.
-
We tested the fuel pump last night and there was almost no pressure in it. Ordered a new one so fingers crossed it will be ok when I fit it!
-
Got her started! :) It was the fuel pump. Delighted - now the fun stuff can start.
She's still running a bit rough though - she can take a while to start sometimes and the revs bounce around you have to keep revving or play with the choke, sometimes she'll cut out if left idle. What would this be and what should I do to get her running more smoothly?
-
greetings...
sounds like it just needs lotts of miles and lotts fuel injector cleaner in the tank...
way to stick with it...
now go getts you some yeeehaaaaa...
j o
-
Congrats on getting the bike running. Next thing is to watch for an air intake leak. The rubber parts have a fair amount of age. If you search here :bmwsmile there are numerous descriptions of how to diagnose and find intake leaks. You may not be to this point yet, but if you do not like how your injectors are performing after you attempt cleaning, several here, including me, have upgraded to a 4 hole injector from Osidetiger on ebay. ebay.com/itm/1983-92-BMW-K100-K100RS-K100RT-K100LT-Fuel-Injectors-Best-Upgrade-4-Hole-Spray-/191863273863?hash=item2cabf13987:g:Cr8AAOxycmBS6PL9&vxp=mtr (http://ebay.com/itm/1983-92-BMW-K100-K100RS-K100RT-K100LT-Fuel-Injectors-Best-Upgrade-4-Hole-Spray-/191863273863?hash=item2cabf13987:g:Cr8AAOxycmBS6PL9&vxp=mtr)
-
Thanks guys. I had put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank already but I'll put some more in and give it a run. Good point about the air intake I'll certainly check that out.
If I still cant solve it then yes those injectors look like a worth upgrade. I live in ireland and he does not deliver here - can i find these in the UK for example? Any specific name I should search for?
-
They are "common" Bosch injectors from multiple applications...I would think that any reliable fuel injection shop/salvage operation would be able to find/replicate the application.
-
Am sharing the pain. So after the domestic jobs it's back to the shed to soldier on with flow charts. Am planning to swap the starter motor from the K1100 into the K100 and test fuel pump pressure, replace filter and check ECU power supply.
Regarding the 4 hole injectors: I have seen injector service kits where you replace the orings, screen and pintle cap.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bosch-EV1-EV6-Fuel-Injector-Reconditioning-Kit-/301829604399?hash=item464672442f:g:N1MAAOSwBahVYNJO
Did not spend much time checking. You can look for the BMW K bike equivalent
The 4 hole end should be available. I know it's "only" $99 and you can probably afford it. Your call. I had mine serviced ($120). A screw is used to gently grab the screen in the top and pull it out.
There are a few "DIY injector servicing" on youtube. But as many people have said ... a good ride is often what some bikes need.
Not sure if it was answered: In Burt's Flowchart diagrams - "What's under the tank"
One pic shows the fuel injection relay on the front LHS and the other pic shows it on the front RHS. Can anyone clarify?
Re: the Colly's video of the bike idling: It's all happening - plenty of arse crack and the call off camera for "RAVS"!
Regards
Guy
-
Hey guys, so this week I'm going to test for air leaks and also clean the fuel injectors. Going to try to do it as per the instruction videos on youtube. Then at least I know I've tried - and see how she runs then and after a good run. If she still rough I'll look into getting the better 4 hole version - it would be a worthy upgrade I'm sure. The only thing is that postage to Ireland from the US is almost as much as the injectors themselves. I'm sure I can get them in the UK but I search does not find much. I believe there are a number of different models or manufactures that would slot right in, can anyone tell me what they are or what I should search for on www.ebay.co.uk?
Are there any other things I should test in the meantime that could have the bike running rough?
-
Test :bmwsmile one thing at a time in order to verify a solution/change. In this thread it has been detailed...fuel, fire, air (leak AND/OR restriction). I found one injector by doing application search, bmw 318i, THAT LOOKS SIMILAR :dunno2: .ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Fuel-Injector-0280150714-for-BMW-3-5-6-7-Series-1-8-3-5-/222094187635?fits=Car+Make%3ABMW|Cars+Type%3A318i&hash=item33b5d85c73:g:-8cAAOSwubRXGXKn (http://.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Fuel-Injector-0280150714-for-BMW-3-5-6-7-Series-1-8-3-5-/222094187635?fits=Car+Make%3ABMW|Cars+Type%3A318i&hash=item33b5d85c73:g:-8cAAOSwubRXGXKn) but it is used and cost 35 pounds plus shipping :nono. Johnny's solution of just running injector cleaner is the best solution if you don't just want to throw money at the problem hoping for a solution...
-
Wohoo! I got her Started! :clap: Thanks for all the advice guys. I cleaned the fuel injectors but she was still running a bit rough and cutting out. We started hunting around and I found the big pipe connecting the airbox was loose. Took it all apart and connected it up properly, she stared on the button and purs like a kitten! So relived. Really appreciate you all taking the time to help.
Now the real fun starts :riding:
-
tHAT IS A FINE LOOKING MOTOCYCLE IN THAT PIX WITH YOU SQUIRTING IT WITH NAPALM TO GET IT TO RUN.
Congratulations, I told you the human would win!! Enjoy those beers that Johnny mentioned.
tom :beer:
-
Just don't enjoy them while riding :hehehe or you may wind up looking like tsnap's avatar :riding:
-
That was a bad day, but not for me :popcorm
tom
-
Colly,
Not sure how long your bike has been off-line. Mine sat for, I believe, 9 years. Needless to say, she was a little reluctant out of the barn. She made some funny noises (replaced monkey nuts), replaced upper intake boots and the weird little "Z" hose. Never did have the injectors cleaned. The more I ran her the better she got. She returns about 50 mpg (to the Imp. gallon) at about 55 mph. No complaints there. I think my lower throttle bodies (one or more) may leak a little air. I will do that test with a propane torch. Other than that she's 30 years old this year, 65,000 miles on the clock and I can't really complain. They are somewhat quirky bikes but she puts a smile on my face just about every day. I think she needs a fork brace, though.
Johnny swears by an additive called TECHRON...made by Chevron. I can't find it here in Ontario. I think if you can source a serious cleaning additive (not the junk at your local auto store rather the stuff a real mechanic swears by) then it's worth a shot.
-
Kris
Your bike sounds exactly like mine. Have just have success after a relatively windy road.
Am going for test ride #4 (each separated by some weeks) and noticed that my bike settled into a less rattly idle (output shaft ... the bearings are smirking at me ... I can feel the force) and
smoother throttle response when revving
I'm thinking either engine has warmed up and / or inlet rubbers have heated and swelled. Relatively abundant propane revealed nothing.
Anyone: thoughts or experiences on similar K 100 things?
Guy
-
I also like techron. I also like STP fuel inj cleaner, and seafoam. Todays fuel has alcohol in it, which I try to avoid (Caseys General Store, BP, etc) It destroys fuel line in about 2 years, turning it into a fine black dust. I replace fuel lines on nearly every bike I clean carbs and tanks on. In KS and MO, usually some Phillips 66 and HYVEE food stores have non alcohol fuels available. These locations can be searched online.
If a bike has been sitting for a couple years, removal and cleaning or replacing injectors will almost always yield a great performance improvement.
(search terms, donkey, search button, whack, doo doo diligints)
tom