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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Donmystic1 on February 24, 2016, 11:52:27 AM

Title: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 24, 2016, 11:52:27 AM
I have tried three of my bmw oil filter removal tools. All are slipping around the, filter when pressure is applied. Any tricks
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: F14CRAZY on February 24, 2016, 12:12:18 PM
Hammer a big screwdriver into the filter at an angle. Get it through the bottom and the side of the filter and it should spin out pretty easily
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: drut on February 24, 2016, 12:32:08 PM
Drill a couple of holes in bottom of oil filter removal tool then screw self tappers through tool straight into bottom of oil filter.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 24, 2016, 12:49:17 PM
Thanks for the replys
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Martin on February 24, 2016, 01:32:38 PM
Next buy a filter that fits your tools, will save you the hassle.
Regards Martin.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 24, 2016, 01:47:19 PM
It is a 1991 K1 that i just purchased.
I have no idea what filter is in there until I get it out.
I have an OEM BMW filter to go back in.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: TrueAce on February 24, 2016, 05:55:38 PM
Send pictures! Do you have to remove a lot of panels to change the oil?
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 24, 2016, 06:06:00 PM
You really have to removal only the bottom panel.
I removed the left lower panel to access the spark plugs.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Laitch on February 24, 2016, 06:07:55 PM
Drill a couple of holes in bottom of oil filter removal tool then screw self tappers through tool straight into bottom of oil filter.
+1 A classic and elegant solution.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: TrueAce on February 24, 2016, 06:12:41 PM
Look forward to seeing pictures of your bike, and a ride report on how it compares to plain K100's. Those K1's are really beautiful.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 27, 2016, 10:29:55 AM
Finally!!! I got the #%&$  K&N filter out. Had to drop the oil pan heat the filter with my heat gun and use a pair of scissors type oil filter wrench to get it off.
I would highly recommend not using a K&N filter on any oil head application.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Laitch on February 27, 2016, 10:50:01 AM
Finally!!! I got the #%&$  K&N filter out. I would highly recommend not using a K&N filter on any oil head application.
Congrats on your success! Which model of oilhead are you working on, Don?
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 27, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
A 1991 K1
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on February 27, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
There is an even more special place in hell than where the NGK plug wire guys hang and that is where I hope they send the assholes who tighten a filter like it was a cylinder head bolt.

Oil the f*cking gasket and give it 1/2 turn after you feel the gasket touch. 
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Laitch on February 27, 2016, 11:32:37 AM
There is an even more special place in hell than where the NGK plug wire guys hang and that is where I hope they send the assholes who tighten a filter like it was a cylinder head bolt.
Bad news—no special place! A recent HellOnline article states that oil filter torquers get the bottom bunks, NGK guys get the top ones.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Inge K. on February 27, 2016, 11:45:29 AM
http://www.oilheadsclub.org/oilhead-tech-tips (http://www.oilheadsclub.org/oilhead-tech-tips)
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 27, 2016, 12:23:33 PM
I mis spoke. I have a K bike not an oil head.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: jjs1234 on February 28, 2016, 01:33:23 AM
Finally!!! I got the #%&$  K&N filter out. Had to drop the oil pan heat the filter with my heat gun and use a pair of scissors type oil filter wrench to get it off.
I would highly recommend not using a K&N filter on any oil head application.

Mine is stuck but I will just wrap it in sandpaper and give it a good twist  :bmwsmile
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 28, 2016, 07:40:38 AM
Tried sandpaper, cloths and a piece of rubber mat. Nothing worked.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: gazman on February 28, 2016, 09:38:37 AM
Just like F14 said drive a big screwdriver through it an twist. . . . . Brutal an messy but works
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 28, 2016, 11:30:01 AM
Tried the screwdriver and all it did was to tear the metal.
This filter was really stuck.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: F14CRAZY on February 28, 2016, 12:48:55 PM
Don't all the K&N filters have a 1'' hex on the end? Someone must have pulled out their 3/4'' drive breaker bar to install it
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Donmystic1 on February 28, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
No hex bolt.

I have it out and a new BMW one in.

Took two days to finally get it out.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: mw074 on February 29, 2016, 08:00:44 AM
I had one that I used a leather belt and a prybar to get it off. I have had a few that the pan had to be dropped to get the damn thing off. In every occasion, the filter had been installed by the dealer.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: F14CRAZY on February 29, 2016, 08:19:55 AM
Aside from a lack of filtration, would a K still build oil pressure and lube itself if the filter were loose or not present? Really don't see why anyone would crank down a filter on these that tight
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on February 29, 2016, 09:42:12 AM
I am pretty sure the filter is on the pressure side of the pump, so yes, it is possible to lose pressure if the filter loosens.  But that is no reason to crank the sucker down.  A half turn after the gasket touches is all it takes to keep it in place.  And don't forget to RUB a bit of oil into the mating surface of the gasket.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Scud on February 29, 2016, 09:44:53 AM
Just as a point of comparison, filter installing is a big issue over in Moto-Guzzi V11 land. The filters are similar to the K-bikes; they go in vertically through a cover in the sump. If a filters loosens it is not visible (unlike an external filter which will start leaking), it can cause a drop in oil pressure, which has been the cause of some bearing failures.

The "belts and braces" approach, which is seen as "extra insurance and peace of mind", is to install a hose clamp on the oil filter so it cannot work free (it's not for the extra tension, it's because there's something in the way and the screw on the clamp cannot rotate by it). This, however, necessitates the removal of the lower sump pan at every oil change, because the hose clamp must be removed before unscrewing the filter.

The other complication with the Guzzi engine, and I have not seen it mentioned here, is that the old filter gasket stays in place, then the new gasket (with filter) gets installed on top, and the two gaskets do not create a good seal.

Long meandering semi-relevant post... but back to our over-tightening issue. The recommendation for the oil filter in the Guzzis is 1.25 turns past gasket contact. This turns out to be suprisingly tight, but it can still be removed.

Any way - I had a low oil pressure issue on one of my Guzzis that took me a long time to find. I cannot tell you how many times people suggested checking and rechecking the filter (common cause of low pressure issue). FYI, the problem on mine was a missing tab on a gasket near an oil journal (causing internal leakage). Just this small tab missing made the difference between 20 PSI and 70 PSI at normal riding speeds. (and 5 vs. 25 at idle)

Soooo... the pressure was still high enough that the oil pressure light didn't come on. But I installed an oil pressure gauge right after I got the bike. Had I not installed the gauge, I would not have been aware of the problem and almost certainly would have had premature wear.

And finally getting around to F14s question - I think a loose (or missing) filter on a K-bike would work the same as on the Guzzis - a total loss of oil pressure.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Laitch on February 29, 2016, 10:02:49 AM
The other complication with the Guzzi engine, and I have not seen it mentioned here, is that the old filter gasket stays in place, then the new gasket (with filter) gets installed on top, and the two gaskets do not create a good seal.
This can happen with K-bikes too so checking for the old gasket and removing it if it's there is essential. An oil filter with a gasket that has been lubricated with a thin coating of oil mounted to a clean sealing surface with ½ or ¾  rotation after making contact will stay secure if the mounting surface has been correctly fabricated. If a thick coating of oil has been applied to the gasket it may not tighten securely and may eventually fall off.

Reefing on a filter to tighten it can crush internal components and compromise oil flow, but I'd guess almost everyone who works on engines knows that by now—maybe not, considering how many methods have been created to remove seized filters. :machinegun:
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: jjs1234 on February 29, 2016, 11:56:50 AM
they have those oil filter ratchet grips. I would use that with sand-paper.


Hand-tighten the oil filter *note to self*
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: F14CRAZY on February 29, 2016, 01:15:27 PM
heh now that I think of it losing oil pressure would make sense. I posted about that early this morning so that's my excuse
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on February 29, 2016, 01:27:03 PM
I was a marine diesel mechanic for a 10 years.  When I started the worst job I had was changing the filters the previous guy had installed.  Some of them took up to two hours to bludgeon off the engine.  The worst I ever ran into was a SeaRay with twin Mercruiser V-8's.  The filters were installed with dry gaskets at the factory and somebody later torqued them down even harder.   I had to take the filter mounts off the engines and put them in a vise in the shop where I had the room to swing a 24" pipe wrench(with a cheater).   

Morons should not be allowed to install oil filters.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Chaos on February 29, 2016, 05:34:16 PM
The only K engine I've seen seized up solid was one at a shop where the guy said the oil filter was on too loose, it unscrewed enough to loose pressure and blooie.  All with 4 quarts of 20-50 safely in the sump.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Laitch on February 29, 2016, 06:46:25 PM
The only K engine I've seen seized up solid was one at a shop where the guy said the oil filter was on too loose, it unscrewed enough to loose pressure and blooie.
The owner probably saw the warning light on and said "I've got to fix that light; it's annoying me" or "Only a few miles to go; I'll look at it in the morning."
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Martin on February 29, 2016, 07:04:07 PM
+1 Laitch seen it done, or I'll just drive a bit slower, so it won't hurt. Mate screwed trailer taillights to his wife's dash with warning buzzers after she blew two engines. :hehehe
Regards Martin
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: BlitzenGruv on April 23, 2016, 10:12:28 PM
Bought the filter wrench based on the size of the new filter. Still couldn't get the old one off. I don't understand why there is oil in the filter chamber, but this is why the wrench slips.
Changed the oil, left the old filter in place. I guess some innertube rubber inside the filter wrench will get it off next time?
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Laitch on April 23, 2016, 10:22:32 PM
Bought the filter wrench based on the size of the new filter. Still couldn't get the old one off. I don't understand why there is oil in the filter chamber, but this is why the wrench slips.
Changed the oil, left the old filter in place. I guess some innertube rubber inside the filter wrench will get it off next time?
The oil filter resides in the oil sump, not in its own chamber. You need a specialized filter wrench that both conforms to the indentations of the filter housing and also fits inside the filter access hole. Pictures are available at MaxBMW and alternatives are listed in the Workshop.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: Chaos on April 23, 2016, 10:42:36 PM

Changed the oil, left the old filter in place. I guess some innertube rubber inside the filter wrench will get it off next time?

all sorts of different size filters fit that may not fit the right wrench.  Put the wrench on the filter and drill a couple sheet metal screws through it into the filter.  That should give you enough grip to get it off.  If not the ruined filter is good incentive to figure out some other way.  Worst case drop the oil pan and attack it with a hammer and chisel.
Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: jjs1234 on April 24, 2016, 01:27:32 AM
If you lay the bike on its side you may be able to exert enough upward force to stop it from slipping

Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Oil filter removal
Post by: johnny on April 24, 2016, 08:53:17 AM
greetings jjs1234...

they only do that in canada... but only to the tip over bars... not all the way on its side...

j o