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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: jjs1234 on February 21, 2016, 03:52:28 AM
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So just so we're clear, whoever added thread locker to those screw s that hold the rear rotor on, if I find you...
Anyway I need some help. I managed to get one of the screws out after stripping it. I had sprayed liquid wrench to both screws and one was able to come out.
The other one I left to soak for two days.
I come back after two days start cranking on it and it completely strips. So I go out and buy a special hard drillbit and a screw extractor, I think they're called an easy-out?
Anyway I drilled a hole in the center of the screw ( apparently regular drill bits aren't strong enough steel?) and was able to get the easy-out inside only problem is The screw doesn't budge, and the easy-out broke off inside of the screw (twice)
Not really sure what else to try, unless I were to get a bigger drillbit in a bigger easy – out.
Help!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3obtViHR9BeLWstSGQ3OUpiV1k
On another note can I use a regular engine stand on a K-100 engine?
Thanks
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Carefully keep drilling bigger holes...
I guess one should use the biggest easy out that is still smaller than the basic screw shaft - but why wouldn't you START with that size?
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punch some heat into that sucker heat gun or map gas. . . be carefull don't overheat you only want to heat the stud not the rotor. it will soften the Loctite. an yeah easyouts are the go
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I have seen reverse twist drill bits at machine tool suppliers. The problem now is the 'easy out' is harder steel than most drill bits. If you can get the 'out' out first your chances are better.
Alternatively ...
A good welder could tack a rod to the broken bolt Then do your heat/cool to loosen it.
Good luck
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thread locker is designed to release with heat. should torch'em before trying to unfasten anything that has been "locked"
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Drill it out with left hand drill bits of increasing size. Heat, like Marshall stated, is useful.
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I wish I had known that heat releases the thread locker. I've never heard that anywhere except now ( it would be cool if that was sticky somewhere )
I believe the drillbit size was 7/64? I thought it was suitable for the application. There were smaller ones and I was like hell no.
The steel or aluminum that the screw is made out of is ridiculously hard.
So a heat gun will work? I don't need a torch for that?
I'll be trying it in an hour and a half, after I take that stuff back and tell Ace "what the heck!"
Isn't it ironic that no place that I've been to including Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware has anything like copper anti-seize. I would imagine I would be using that instead of Loctite when I end up putting a new rotor on… ?
By the way just to ask that random question again: will a standard engine stand hold the K-100 hundred engine?
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I get my copper anti-seize at NAPA. $10 for a 4oz can.
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I get my copper anti-seize at NAPA. $10 for a 4oz can.
Just curious, what bolts should I use thread locker on if any on the bike?
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If you don't have a Clymer manual now, you should get one ASAP. It would have paid for itself in your present situation. It will answer all your questions about thread locker and torque settings.
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Isn't it ironic that no place that I've been to including Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware has anything like copper anti-seize.
By the way just to ask that random question again: will a standard engine stand hold the K-100 hundred engine?
To answer your first question, jj, I think it's odd that you wouldn't go looking for that stuff at an automotive specialist first. The Ace ten miles from me has it in their automotive section though.
Many of us have done the broke-the-damned-easyout-trying-to-get-the-damned-siezed-broken-bolt-out routine. Many of us have learned from that when to reef, when not to reef, and that not every bolt complies graciously without coaxing first. My experience has shown me heat, penetrant, patience and persistence is the best strategy with seized fasteners. Sometimes I'll use an impact wrench at a low-torque setting to vibrate the fastener in an attempt to break up corrosion first.
Get the manual Gryph recommends. There are a lot of tips in it.
To answer your second question about the engine stand, don't use it. At your skill level, you're better off not going into that engine as deep as it seems you intend right now unless you first take a basic mechanics course at a local vocational school.
Get on the bike, throw some camping gear on it and ride to Virginia City or over to the Sonoran desert, or fill your wallet and ride out to the Mustang Ranch. :yow You live in Reno, for godsake. Take advantage of the climate! If you ride your bike often enough, far enough and hard enough, you'll get an opportunity to work on it, don't worry.
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Isn't it ironic that no place that I've been to including Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware has anything like copper anti-seize.
By the way just to ask that random question again: will a standard engine stand hold the K-100 hundred engine?
To answer your first question, jj, I think it's odd that you wouldn't go looking for that stuff at an automotive specialist first. The Ace ten miles from me has it in their automotive section though.
Many of us have done the broke-the-damned-easyout-trying-to-get-the-damned-siezed-broken-bolt-out routine. Many of us have learned from that when to reef, when not to reef, and that not every bolt complies graciously without coaxing first. My experience has shown me heat, penetrant, patience and persistence is the best strategy with seized fasteners. Sometimes I'll use an impact wrench at a low-torque setting to vibrate the fastener in an attempt to break up corrosion first.
Get the manual Gryph recommends. There are a lot of tips in it.
To answer your second question about the engine stand, don't use it. At your skill level, you're better off not going into that engine as deep as it seems you intend right now unless you first take a basic mechanics course at a local vocational school.
Get on the bike, throw some camping gear on it and ride to Virginia City or over to the Sonoran desert, or fill your wallet and ride out to the Mustang Ranch. :yow You live in Reno, for godsake. Take advantage of the climate! If you ride your bike, often enough, far enough and hard enough, you'll get an opportunity to work on it, don't worry.
Wise words,
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If I can chime in a little late to the party, another option for messed up bolts is to dremel a slot across the top and use an impact screwdriver on it. The shock usually breaks the bolt loose, and the impact keeps the bit from slipping. Also, a heat gun is usually safer to surrounding paint than a flame, worth trying first.
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and a heat gun is not your spouses hair dryer.....
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I appreciate everyone's input, and have read and considered all of the advice given, Applied some of it.
First off, I did end up trying the larger easy–out and a larger drillbit. The drillbits were made out of cobalt just to add to the information.
Anyway I got a larger easy out and larger drillbit to go with it, along with a torch. The easy-out that had broken off inside the bolt was preventing the bit to drill farther. So I took my Dremel out with the diamond cutting wheel and cut into the mount that holds the rotor (don't worry I didn't once hit the final drive)-( I had to do this once to an axle where the repair bearing got stuck inside and would not come out – that's a long story).
That worked and I was able to get the rotor off. I thought I had won when the rotor finally came off because the bolt was sticking out Half an inch and it seemed like it was starting to move with rib pliers. (Even with a torch I had no luck... What the heck!!!
However it broke off as well. I detected something green in the threads I don't know if it was also thread locker or not?
My particular final drive since it's such an early model does not have the notches near the bolts that the later models have ( according to my Clymer Manual).
Since it does not I am thinking of having a crown gear drilled and re-tapped( By a machine shop) for those specific bolts…
If not I will replace the entire crown gear itself and possibly a seal or two while I'm at it, although that would be something that I would let the dealer do.
I would've run into this sooner or later and it's good to get it out-of-the-way. Rotor is warped, so this was inevitable.
Laitch: are you located in Reno if you know so much about it?
To respond to the engine stand question: I wasn't sure if a regular car engine stand work because the holes on the engine stand are much larger than the bolts. I didn't want any damage to be incurred on the engine itself once it is mounted. And was curious if anyone had done this...
Might've just been overthinking it and it's not a big deal.
The bike is not in Reno at the moment. It's in Truckee where 3ft of snow is on the ground at this moment.
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Laitch: are you located in Reno if you know so much about it?
Nope. I've been out there though, and besides I read National Geographic and am a journeyman Googler.
How do you make the leap from rotor bolts and a warped rotor to a new crown gear? Aren't there enough places to spend money out there?
How about some photos of the aftermath of this Titanic operation? I've finished all the episodes of Better Call Saul, so you'd be doing me a favor—not that I'm likely to repay it—but you never know.
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I forgot to say in my last post that I will add some pictures. According to the manual those screws screw directly into the crown gear. That's where my conclusion came from but if I cant drill two new holes then I would need to replace that whole unit .
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The bike is not in Reno at the moment. It's in Truckee where 3ft of snow is on the ground at this moment.
Don't they plow the roads out there, jj? Highs are in the mid-50s. It's all downhill to Reno. Are you in a trapper's cabin on a snowmobile trail up Shit Creek? It must be peaceful except for all the cursing and Dremel noise.
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They do but heavily sand the roads. I wouldn't consider it safe unless I drove south/ west a bit.
I got to ride it though. I'm doing this to clean/paint and replace the output shaft seal and o-ring.
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Haven't changed the trans oil since I got the bike.
Was already planning to replace the fill cap on it, it appears to already be stripped. Of course it won't budge for me either.
I had it with the torch, no go. It with some more penetrant, I'm gonna wait for another day on this. I had enough. :bang-head:
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Striped oil plug, I suspect a terrible mechanic has been playing with this bike.
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Striped oil plug, I suspect a terrible mechanic has been playing with this bike.
I think the former owner of this bike was a stripper.
Get some rest, jj. It's been a tough day up the creek, I bet. Just don't forget the photos, please.
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Pictures: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3obtViHR9BeaE5rcmdfQTlhamc
Good news : the splines look like their from the factory. That made me a happy man!
My weekend: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3obtViHR9Beck91QU81S0txOTg
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Pictures: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3obtViHR9BeaE5rcmdfQTlhamc
Those look like stills from an Ed Wood movie, jj—Plan 9 From Outer Space, maybe Glen or Glenda—whichever had the stampeding Zebra cut into the middle of it. I can't quite envision the trajectory from 220_17230 to get to 221_12474 or 221_13013. Did you have stunt doubles in there?
Thanks for the photos. They certainly have a message for prospective easyouters.
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Aye, I've never seen that movie. I don't know how I got there either but I did.
But alas it will be worth it in the end. A happy memory when I'm riding PCH in July.
:mm :curvy-road :2thumbup:
The easy out that broke off prevented any drilling farther... So that was my only option :(
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In a Google-free moment of lucidity I have just recalled that it was a herd of buffalo stampeding, not zebra but the point is still valid, I guess. if you aren't zebra-centric.
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Take it to a machine shop, if cost effective. Chris Harris has a video on getting these screws out, but late now for that info.
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OK, so you got one screw out, but not the other.
I wouldn't worry about it. Leave it alone(unless you now have a hole completely thru it to the oil cavity).... Reason being..------ you will have 1 to hold it in place WHEN the rear wheel is OFF the bike.
When the rear wheel is ON the bike you will have the 4 wheel studs holding it tight..........
That 2nd carrier screw isn't going to hold it any tighter than the 4 wheel studs.
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I hadn't thought of it like that. Hadn't even crossed my mind...
Truth be told however... where do those holes go? Is their gear fluid behind them? If so I need to open it up because sureley their are metal shavings that fell back there....!!!! :mbird
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Well, if you have yourself a small pocket screwdriver, poke it in the open hole and see if it bottoms out.
I've had my rotor off and wheel off and have never noticed oil leaking out of the holes.
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That sucks...
:(
:yow
well Ill take the cover bolts off after I make a concoction of the Anti-freeze and the Acetone. Going to try that on the frozen fill plug...
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well Ill take the cover bolts off after I make a concoction of the Anti-freeze and the Acetone. Going to try that on the frozen fill plug...
I think you mean Automatic Transmission fluid.
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Thanks for the correction.
I'm gonna read my manual and see if seals inside the final drive can be replaced with what I have in my garage. After I open it up I'm gonna send it out to have those holes tapped and drilled and just do it right the second time around.
I think I'm going to forgo the k75 Pistons this summer. I'll do it next summer.
I want to thank everyone for their advice. Hopefully ATF fluid acetone, torch and just a little old fashioned patience will help me with the fill plug on the gearbox.
If I have just as much of an issue with the fill plug, my only way to prevent metal from going into the transmission would be to drill it out upside down. Haha :bmwsmile
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If you have to drill out the fill plug, the time to do it would be while you have it opened up and other parts out to the machine shop.... or let them to it also while they have it.