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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Farmrjohn on February 18, 2016, 06:15:10 PM

Title: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Farmrjohn on February 18, 2016, 06:15:10 PM
I have just acquired a '94 K75 and it has a switch that I can't find in the Rider's Manual or by searching online.  Also, just to confirm, the heated grip switch is a three way, with the center position "off", the top position "high" and the lower position "low", correct?

Here's a pic. of the mystery switch, the one on the right.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Scott_ on February 18, 2016, 06:17:53 PM
Are you sure it's just not a blank filler?
See if you can see/feel around the backside for any wires in that specific spot.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Martin on February 18, 2016, 06:28:20 PM
+1 Scott it does not look as if it has been used, different patina to the others.
Regards Martin.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on February 18, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
Does the switch rocker move?  If not, it is a filler.  If it does, it could possibly be that a previous owner installed it to manually turn on the radiator cooling fan.  These bikes are infamous for getting very hot because the fan does not automatically come on at a reasonable temperature so many owners install manual switches.

It is also possible that it was used for running lights.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: TimTyler on February 18, 2016, 06:37:27 PM
That's the Weed Butter switch.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 18, 2016, 06:50:29 PM
That's the Weed Butter switch.
Also makes Weed Cheese if run longer.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: WayneDW on February 18, 2016, 08:14:16 PM
I have one like that which turns on/off the running lights.  But you probably would have noticed that... 
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Farmrjohn on February 18, 2016, 09:09:50 PM
Are you sure it's just not a blank filler?
See if you can see/feel around the backside for any wires in that specific spot.

There are wires going to it, and it does feel like a switch, with an click "on" position if pushed at the bottom by the little arrow icons.  There are no running lights installed, but I don't know the full history of the bike.

Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 18, 2016, 09:16:14 PM
There are wires going to it, and it does feel like a switch, with an click "on" position if pushed at the bottom by the little arrow icons.
Time to trace the wires, john, removing the tank if necessary. It'll be fun and instructive. You do have a workshop manual, right? Have you had the bike running and rocked the switch yet. It could be wired to start the cooling fan—a useful modification.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Elipten on February 18, 2016, 09:18:57 PM
Or the elevation plug.  I have that on my bike.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 18, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
Or the elevation plug.  I have that on my bike.
That's nifty, I guess, for alpine dwellers' roundtrips to the flatlands for groceries.

Then again, it could be just unconnected bare wires—a testament to some rider's unfulfilled dream. :falldown:
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 18, 2016, 09:28:06 PM
Also, just to confirm, the heated grip switch is a three way, with the center position "off", the top position "high" and the lower position "low", correct?
It shouldn't take you too long to determine that yourself with a running bike, one bare hand on a grip and the other working the switch in between providing sips of a comforting beverage.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: motodude on February 18, 2016, 11:10:24 PM
Yup. I got one of those too. I used a flasher switch, rubbed the bottom of the delta off and now it is a, "mountain"!

Tom

Or the elevation plug.  I have that on my bike.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Farmrjohn on February 29, 2016, 05:07:29 PM
OK, I've traced the wires from the switch into the wiring loom, but where they go from there is still a mystery.  I'm hesitant to operate a switch not knowing what it does.  The two wires from the switch are connected with bullet connectors into a portion of the loom (second photo) that joins some other sleeved wire and goes into what I think is the fuel injection control unit (at screwdriver tip, 1st photo).
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Martin on February 29, 2016, 05:23:26 PM
What colour are the wires it would be useful in determining where the go. Do you have a wiring diagram.
Regards Martin.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: TimTyler on February 29, 2016, 05:26:15 PM
Do you have a high altitude plug outlet?

If you don't I bet that's what the switch is wired to.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 29, 2016, 05:53:44 PM
Do you have a high altitude plug outlet?
If you don't I bet that's what the switch is wired to.
The switch is wired to a plug that isn't there? Now that's just plain spooky, Tim.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: TimTyler on February 29, 2016, 05:56:36 PM
All right. To be clear... The switch might be wired to the leads that once connected to the high altitude plug.

Fucker.   :deal:
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 29, 2016, 06:00:06 PM
 :hehehe
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Farmrjohn on February 29, 2016, 06:45:11 PM
Between the time I posted the photos, going down to look again, and the above responses, that's the conclusion I came to as well.  I didn't see a high altitude plug outlet as depicted in yellow and don't see a plug attached to the frame.  The wiring loom/harness that continues to the fuel injector control has a portion of it that does look like the outlet.  Now, how can I determine what switch position closes the circuit, providing the "high altitude" signal?  I'm hesitant to pull apart the bullet connectors to check with a multimeter, but suppose that's the best way. 
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: TimTyler on February 29, 2016, 06:57:11 PM
If the switch is ON then you're compensating for high altitude. The middle position on the switch will be OFF.

Remove the switch from the dash using your fingers or remove the dash from the forks with a hex wrench.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Martin on February 29, 2016, 06:58:50 PM
According to the Minister for Finance & Recreation the wire colours are green with red tracer & white with red tracer. I had her verify as I'm red green colour blind. :hehehe Oz is too flat to require an altitude plug but we could do with an attitude plug.
Regards Martin. 
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: rbm on February 29, 2016, 09:32:42 PM
I'm relaying how the Jetronic reacts to the TPS.  According to the Bosch Jetronic Technical Manual, when WOT is detected, the ECU attempts to enrichen the air-fuel mixture, targeting lambda=0.85-0.90.

With this mod, at partial open throttle and if the switch is thrown, the ECU will open the injectors for a longer period of time, allowing more fuel to enter the combustion chamber, lowering the AFR.  If the PO was attempting to emulate the high-altitude plug in an attempt to get the bike to work better at high altitudes, (s)he ended up going in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 29, 2016, 09:46:52 PM
That makes sense to me, Tim. What I'm not understanding is how the connection made by the switch would differ from the connection made by adding the loop in the plug. I would have thought that adding the loop triggered increased air flow at altitude. What is the indication that this switch doesn't emulate it? I can't tell by the halftones how it's wired.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: TimTyler on February 29, 2016, 09:53:43 PM
...how the connection made by the switch would differ from the connection made by adding the loop in the plug.

It doesn't. It's just easier to flip a switch.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Laitch on February 29, 2016, 10:10:36 PM
Well then, I don't understand rbm's take on this, but I wish I could. I'll sleep on it.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: rbm on February 29, 2016, 10:12:37 PM
That makes sense to me, Tim. What I'm not understanding is how the connection made by the switch would differ from the connection made by adding the loop in the plug.
The high altitude plug connects to a totally different set of pins on the ECU (Pin 11) than does the TPS (Pin 2&3).  When you short the pins in the high altitude plug, you're not overriding the TPS, you're telling the ECU through Pin 11 to go into a "fuel enleanment" mode .  When this Yeeehaaa switch is engaged, it tells the ECU through Pin 3 to go into "accelerator pump" mode and enrichen the fuel.  That's why this mod doesn't do what it's intended to do.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Inge K. on March 01, 2016, 04:59:01 PM
It exists two different versions of the high altitude plug wiring.
1. Connects 12V+ to pin 3 (shorts the WOT contact in the TPS).
2. Connects 12V+ to pin 11.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Bill on March 01, 2016, 05:43:29 PM
It exists two different versions of the high altitude plug wiring.
1. Connects 12V+ to pin 3 (shorts the WOT contact in the TPS).
2. Connects 12V+ to pin 11.
Is one method better than the other,  is there a model year with the change, is there a program change in the ECU related to the change ?
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Farmrjohn on March 01, 2016, 06:38:14 PM
The mystery switch is indeed wired to the altitude correction plug.  The rocker switch has three wires, black, grey, and white from top to bottom that go into a sleeve.  Sometime in the past the black and grew wires were connected to the male portion of the altitude plug, which looks like it has two black wires.  The free end of the white wire remains in the sleeve.  It looks like I've answered my question on which position is "on", which would be up.  While I'm not happy with the connectors used, I think I'll keep it active in case I ride to elevation over 4000' or so.  The discussion on which pins are connected is interesting.  My understanding of the altitude correction plug is that when inserted it interacts with a pin otherwise not used, changing the amount of fuel.  I would assume it would lower the fuel with higher altitude, just as changing to a smaller jet in a carb would do.
Title: Re: Mystery Switch?
Post by: Inge K. on March 02, 2016, 05:44:33 PM
Is one method better than the other,  is there a model year with the change, is there a program change in the ECU related to the change ?

1. No idea, but 12V+ to pin 11 is mostly used.
2. Have only the dates on the different wiring diagram.....very early model pin 11, then ~ a couple of years
    with 12V+ to pin 3, then return to pin 11 metod.
3. AFAIK it haven't been any change on the ECU's.