MOTOBRICK.COM
MOTOBRICK.COM => The MBdotCOM Community Center => Topic started by: billday on October 27, 2015, 07:58:39 AM
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Article about Harley-Davidson from the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/24/harley-davidson-brand-revenue-loss-easy-rider-image
They say Harley sales are way off and that the company has boxed itself in by focusing on a shrinking demographic, making too many bikes, and selling "customs" that look like all the other "customs."
Speaking as an old white guy, I will say this about Harley. I've seen few that I'd want to ride, let alone own, but when I'm traveling on my K, I see far more Harleys than any other motorcycle, and I know that if I had a problem, one of them would stop to help me out.
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Honestly aside from myself (28, Asian-American) I haven't seen anyone other than an old white guy piloting a BMW.
Perhaps HD is regretting canning Buell. Then again I don't see why anyone, especially a young person, would believe in a Harley engine being suitable for a sportbike.
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I wonder what the average of a motorcyclist is these days. Are younger people coming into the sport? Maybe the whole sport is turning gray?
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I wonder that too. I just turned 33 and I feel like not many of my peers are into motobikes. Many of my motorcycle friends have at least around 15 years on me.
My faux-uncle screwball started teaching at the local JuCo, and says that in today's world having a harley - or any bike - doesn't make you a badass anymore.
Too many retiring lawyers getting into them, I guess. That said, he's right about his little R bike and his beautiful Guzzi being timeless classics.
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Yes, but I think BMW needs to be more worried about that than Harley. When I use to hang out at the BMWMOA site that was a common discussion about the aging demographic of the typical BMW rider.
I know I'm guilty of getting older every year. But it's better than the alternative.
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Something that I have noticed even in my workplace, the "younger sportbike" riders(mid-late 20's) are starting to trade their bikes for wives and children.............. or at least parking them and waiting to sell.
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BMW has a very diverse lineup though compared to HD. R Nine T for the cafe racer crowd, S1000RR for sport bikers, light, medium and heavy enduro bikes, a new adventure touring bike, roadsters, luxury touring, sport touring, sport-sport touring, and even scooters
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I can only speak for myself, but it took me about 40+ years to finally come to understand and appreciate the BMW "thing". I used to think of them as staid, old fashioned machines back when I was in my teens and twenties. Now that I'm a lot older, I appreciate the ergonomics and the ability to easily do a lot of miles in a short period of time. To me these are the BMW strong points, and they are not that important to younger riders who are in better shape and do most of their riding in short runs.
F14Crazy, What do you consider a light enduro bike? In the Northeast I would say it has to be well under 200 lbs, closer to 185. I don't think BMW has anything that light. IMO all they have are big heavy ISDT type machines made for wide, fast dry trails, not the snaking through trees and gullies kind of stuff I am used to.
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"I wonder what the average of a motorcyclist is these days. Are younger people coming into the sport? Maybe the whole sport is turning gray? "
Certainly the average age of motorcyclists here in the UK appears to have risen during my lifetime.Still see youngsters(& middle aged)taking training but if I stop at a cafe the majority of riders are 50+,I don't think the graded test process/cost helps http://www.passyourbiketest.co.uk/content/motorcycle-tests/
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I can only speak for myself, but it took me about 40+ years to finally come to understand and appreciate the BMW "thing". I used to think of them as staid, old fashioned machines back when I was in my teens and twenties. Now that I'm a lot older, I appreciate the ergonomics and the ability to easily do a lot of miles in a short period of time. To me these are the BMW strong points, and they are not that important to younger riders who are in better shape and do most of their riding in short runs.
F14Crazy, What do you consider a light enduro bike? In the Northeast I would say it has to be well under 200 lbs, closer to 185. I don't think BMW has anything that light. IMO all they have are big heavy ISDT type machines made for wide, fast dry trails, not the snaking through trees and gullies kind of stuff I am used to.
Well "light" is a relative term with BMWs...a G650GS is lighter than an R1200GS tho.
I'm disappointed they dropped the G450X...not under 200 lbs but closer
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http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812035.pdf. Interesting reading, most recent info I could find.
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I can't remember the specifics or find an article at the moment but I read a while back that the military started requiring endorsements for personnel with motorcycles as there were more deaths from motorcycle accidents than from military operations
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I put the wrong report up. I read another report where the median age of motorcyclist is in the 40's I think.
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retired military here (Go Army!).
Dept of Defense (DOD) requires all active duty motorcyclists to have completed an authorized motorcycle safety course in order for them to ride on a DOD installation, regardless of service affiliation. In addition to that each service imposes other "safety" measures: reflective clothing, over the ankle boots, eye protection, gloves and DOT approved helmets. The commander of each facility is free to put his/her own spin on these regulations also and may require advanced safety courses (experienced rider course or similar), re-certification, refresher training, etc, etc.
Most of the time you are just waved through the gate if dressed properly, once in a while you'll be stopped for a spot check by a safety-nazi.
It's not unusual to see the "life-style" riders stopped before gate stashing their "beanie helmets" and putting on their required safety gear so they can enter installation.
all told, things are pretty smooth until there's a motorcycle related injury/death, then the entire chain-of-command starts running around with their hair on fire because they have to report to "higher" that the rider was fully certified and in compliance with local policy. this is usually followed by remedial training for all riders, increased screenings for proper endorsements, etc, etc and so the cycle continues.
The injured soldier is usually a young male with little riding experience that just bought a 150HP two-wheeler a week ago, probably not much different than civilian statistics.
those who have served/are serving will laugh aloud at the knee-jerk reactions that follow an incident.
i cannot attest to ratio of injuries/deaths to riders as compared to other military operations.
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Kaopono, wow, things have changed. I was In an Air Defense Artillery Battery in Ft. Bliss in the early 70's. There were a couple of us with dirt bikes in the unit, and our battery commander used to invite us to ride our bikes out to the desert when the battery went out for training exercises. We mainly did courier stuff and occasional forward observer duty. It was a lot more fun that driving deuce-and-a-trucks, and you may know how much fun that can be. There were rumors that there were guys who had been issued Husqvarnas up at Fort Hood, and we were hoping that we'd get some too.
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A lot of good points here...Yes, I traded my bike for a wife in my 20's :bmwsmile. At the time it was a good trade. Now that the farm is stable, we are done creating kids, my life insurance covers financial concerns, and my kids can "chore"...once again I can enjoy a motorcycle! The greater point here is that most likely the reason I ride a bike is that my father owned a bike (BSA). Following this line, my two sons have been exposed to motorcycles, and like looking at s1000rr's. It's an age thing. Most likely, as they age they will appreciate the refinements of the K or the future versions of them. I have classmates who ride harleys. To me, it was always about getting from point to point quickly and reliably, thus BMW. BMW has majorly increased the diversity of their lineup and thus will attract more riders (no single demographic). This is a good thing. Unfortunately, guys with nostalgia for the K are aging and someday will disappear altogether. I bet we will have a good time meanwhile...
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What a great pic. I often have both of those expressions on my face while on my k75.
Once I get outside the beltline highway I often think to myself in my best nasa voice: "Engage jetfighter mode..."
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I love blue and white K100RS's.
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At 50, I guess I am officially an "old white-guy" now. AARP sent me a membership application. :deal: F**K that.
Maybe more of us making it to "old-guy" status than we used to. I look back at a few habits/stunts and am sort of surprised that I made it to this age.
On the Harley topic - this is a small sample for counter-point, but two young guys at my office are riding 1200 Harley Sportsters. Sadly, one of them thought it would be a "great first bike" (I disagree) and he dumped it within a week.
Couldn't Harley make a great thumper as an entry level bike? Just take one cylinder from a 12 sporty or one of the big bikes and build a new crankshaft and case.
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What a great pic. I often have both of those expressions on my face while on my k75.
Once I get outside the beltline highway I often think to myself in my best nasa voice: "Engage jetfighter mode..."
Yup :2thumbup: that's what drew me to them. To me, I enjoy being the fastest thing on the road (most of the time) so that I can get away from BS. In Kansas we have a lot of "space" :riding:. When I get to old to enjoy this or afraid of the machine, then I will be an old guy. At 44, I think I have quite a ways to go. Nothing beats passing a Harley :neener:
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Love that picture. Totally captures what motorcycles do for me.
Kansas, what a wonderful place to own a bike. Last spring I had the pleasure to have my 75RT doing 110mph for about 5 miles on a two lane in west Kansas. I was the only sign of human life I could see in any direction at the time.
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Here is an antidote to the stereotype:
http://www.theguardian.com/travel/gallery/2015/oct/27/cuba-ancient-harley-davidsons-in-pictures?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
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Well I neither own or want a Harley. I disdain their high prices and also the "Everything you wanted in a bike in 1960" styling, especially those horrible looking parallelogram shaped hard cases....I will add that a Harley Rider righted a bike for me when I took a spill off the side of the road a couple of years ago. I admire fit and finish.
They are coming out with smaller street models to try to lure the beginners into their fold. They are starting to use liquid cooled engines (albeit, as I understand it, just for the heads, and only on the more expensive models) and that is a plus...Their marketing dept is outstanding...I've said this before but they outdo both CocaCola and IBM in that department....The most frequently asked question I get when I tell folks I am a biker is, "Do you have a Harley?" That question is asked nearly 100% of the time..
Aside from the horrible side cases, the Harley cruisers look much like cruisers of the Japanese makers, so why pay more?
BMW has a much more varied line, despite not having traditional looking cruisers.
(I almost bought a very nice R1200C lately but my pockets are not quite deep enough)
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I think the way HD has focused on its 'lifestyle' marketing is hurting them more. I have spoken to many non HD owners and some would contemplate buying a HD if it wasn't for the stupid stigma of what comes with one. The pirate ship is going down, slowly but it is going.
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I'm 56 myself and really picky about what I ride, as long as its somewhere between an Ariel and a Zundapp I probably like it. But in all seriousness I think the lifestyle thing is what is hurting them. When I sold my R80RT the gent who purchased it said he getting out of the lifestyle, disappointed because he thought he was joining a brotherhood and was instead greeted with drugs, fights etc. Also said he would not buy another one because of this. Recently had a conversation with a sport bike rider (he was 30ish) and his take on it was that ever since "Sons of Anarchy" had aired, a lot, not all, HD riders had gotten bit of an attitude. A friend of mine has a HD and he is the consummate rider, owns several marques including a BMW. Not the typical HD rider whatsoever. Its guys like him that HD needs to cater to because those are the guys who going to ride until they take their last breath. Not the guys who just want to look cool or be weekend tuff guys.
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Love that picture. Totally captures what motorcycles do for me.
Kansas, what a wonderful place to own a bike. Last spring I had the pleasure to have my 75RT doing 110mph for about 5 miles on a two lane in west Kansas. I was the only sign of human life I could see in any direction at the time.
Yeah, I look around in Kansas and see a lot of life :bmwsmile...when I go to West Texas, not a lot of life, kinda like the opening of "No Country For Old Men".
I think the core of the issue for HD, like my cousin and neighbors (HD owners), if you have a bike to ride once a year, in a parade, or trailer it to Sturgis, you do not pass the connection on to your kids. Today's kids are not watching movies with a Harley in them like we did growng up. BTW, my father in law was a HD man. On our first vacation, he and his friends were joking about BMW rider's and their GPS (2003). I asked them, What is the difference between a Hoover vacuum and an HD???, Position of the dirtbag. It got real quiet, real quick :nono
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It sure does seem like the Harley riders are a bit stuck up. When I've parked my K in motorcycle parking areas at places like an air show it seems like they wouldn't give you the time of day if asked. You can have nice chats with the Japanese cruiser riders though.
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I think the way HD has focused on its 'lifestyle' marketing is hurting them more. I have spoken to many non HD owners and some would contemplate buying a HD if it wasn't for the stupid stigma of what comes with one. The pirate ship is going down, slowly but it is going.
I totally agree. A few years ago I almost bought a beautiful custom 1979 Sportster, but realized what a fool I would look like in my riding gear, and there was no way I was going to ride in traffic wearing nothing more than jeans and a sleeveless denim jacket.
BTW The "lifestyle" isn't just a Hardley thing. It's really a V-twin thing, with Road Stars, Vulcans, etc.
When someone asks me why I ride a BMW I just smile and say it's probably because I don't have enough testosterone to ride a V-twin...or an old Buick.
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Although I find it easy to pick on the Harleysexuals, I try to stick to a "bikers are bikers" attitude. I wave at every bike I see, whether it's oncoming or one I'm passing -- which is usually a Harley or a big tourer poking along in the right lane.
At least here in the PNW, there seems to be a strong contingent of younger people on sportbikes and 30-50 YO guys on dual sports. When it comes to snobbiness, the DS guys seem to carry that baton more often than HD people.
FWIW, I'm 55 going on 25, and usually the rabbit leading the hounds.
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Many stereotypes exist for a reason, but they don't apply to everybody. Every group has it's snobs and aficionados.
I like my big V-Twin Moto Guzzis. I pulled up recently to a group of Harley guys and said "Hey, your engines are rotated the wrong way in your frames. (that's the BS line that a lot of people say about Moto Guzzis if they are used to seeing inline V-twins). One Harley guy responds immediately - "Yeah, that's cuz Harley is too dumb to mount the engine that way, and we're always overheating the rear cylinder."
We had a good laugh and I complimented him on the lovely swim-step on his boat. (er... I mean the rear rack on his bike.) It was a lovely rack, chrome and teak, would have looked right at home on a ski-boat. He says: "Yeah, now that you mention it, it does look like a swim step. I made that myself." Good bloke, and a proper motorcyclist.
Have fun out there, boys. :hehehe
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"I try to stick to a "bikers are bikers" attitude. I wave at every bike I see, whether it's oncoming or one I'm passing -"
That I am more than comfortable with!
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HD has for some time now earned around 40% of net income from their "life-style" clothing and accessories.....for people who want to be recognized as HD fans, a ratio to bike sales which no other manufacturer has. The strange connection between apparel and fans would suggest more people want to look HD than want to own HD motorcycles. I agree with too much model proliferation and "factory" customization, points made by others. Additionally, the less than customer friendly HD dealer staff coupled with super expensive parts and service charges (yes, more than BMW, Ducati, you name it) serve to drive folks away from ownership. Can they build a market share with a new line of 750's? I seriously doubt it. With wages virtually flat since 2000, working folks cannot afford to buy over-priced, antiquated technology, costly maintenance HD motorcycles......and they are no fun to ride or tour. I think somebody on this forum stated it well..... " 98% of Harleys are still on the road...........only 2% made it home to the garage".
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I think somebody on this forum stated it well..... " 98% of Harleys are still on the road...........only 2% made it home to the garage".
That's funny. My favorite Harley joke is: What to do Harley's and Golden Retrievers have in common? --- They both like to ride in the back of pickup trucks.
That used to be funny because of reliability problems, but not so true anymore. Now it's funny because so many Harley's get trucked or trailered places (instead of being ridden there).
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A few years ago I got the opportunity to ride a brand new HD right off the showroom floor and put the 1st 100 miles on it.....
Needless to say, I wasn't "lifestyle" riding it.....
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk91/electro_handyman/Gregs%20Harley/DSCF2523.jpg)
There's a little story behind the "why" did my buddy ask me to ride it for him, I still didn't understand his reasoning, but I realized it probably would be my only chance to ride one brand new..... :2thumbup:
Personally would I own one, probably not. It was nice though to be able to flat foot it so easily compared to my 1100's.
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They seem to all have Dunlop 404's...I think they're labeled as 402's since they're Harley branded but the tread is the same...decent tires if you don't like cornering
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decent tires if you don't like cornering
Decent tires if you don't mind them cracking long before the tread's worn out.
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decent tires if you don't like cornering
Lol I don't know why I left that out. Not looking back since I switched to Shinkos
Decent tires if you don't mind them cracking long before the tread's worn out.
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Geez, looking at those Cuban Harley photos there is no denying that old Harleys have a lot of cool going on. Wow....I know a couple of guys who own them. Yup, older, fairly well-heeled Causcasians. They love them. Not my cup of tea, although I have never ridden one. I prefer the upright/ slightly forward-leaning riding stance. We should all be careful not to get too high on whatever brand we ride. I am sure the riding experience is what bonds us all. As for younger people not riding Harleys that could be. Bikes are still a secondary form of transportation here in Ontario (for 99 per cent of us - the odd hardcore guy rides through the winter...Ural with sidecar). New bikes aren't cheap and many younger guys seem to have no idea as to how to fix stuff anymore....so picking up a beater is out of the question. Hopefully they'll get there.
And as for bikers being bad-ass....I guess if you're an outlaw biker but the rest of us ride for fun or transportation.
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And as for bikers being bad-ass....I guess if you're an outlaw biker but the rest of us ride for fun or transportation.
Speaking of bad-ass, I'm sure most of us have seen that television ad for the CanAm Spyder with the shots of the guy riding it trying to look bad-ass or something, but mostly something. Made we cringe. Bad-ass can only be done on H-D or vintage Brit.
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Maybe one of our future presidents will bail them out , if necessary, like Reagan did because they were on the verge of going belly-up back then.
If they can't or won't make anything other than cruisers, I say - let 'em go.
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Maybe one of our future presidents will bail them out , if necessary, like Reagan did because they were on the verge of going belly-up back then.
If they can't or won't make anything other that cruisers, I say - let 'em go.
well they did have Buell but...I guess sportbikes with Harley engines weren't that appealing
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My brother-in-law had a Buell but traded it in for a sportster. POS.
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What card-carying sports bike rider wants a bike that goes "potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, ..." :hehehe
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What card-carying sports bike rider wants a bike that goes "potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, ..." :hehehe
not many, evidently
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I'm 22 and I love my BMW. It may not look like a new bike, but it rides perfectly for me. In fact I'm considering a bmw for my next bike. Might get rid of my yzf600r and get a k1200rs (at least thats my thoughts so far). However I also love my 600cc sportbike, which I feel is more of a "young person's motorcycle." But I feel that people my age don't ride as much as some of my older friends. I can't get enough of motorcycles. The only thing stopping me from being a mechanic is that I don't want to ruin my favorite hobby: working on my bikes. So I ended up being a Chef lol.
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I can't get enough of motorcycles. The only thing stopping me from being a mechanic is that I don't want to ruin my favorite hobby: working on my bikes. So I ended up being a Chef lol.
Did that ruin your desire to eat? I hear you, I have had sailboats for 30 years. When I retired I got a seasonal job working in the boatyard where I keep mine. It's been 4 years now since the last time I had the sails up on my own boat.
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Lol sometimes it does ruin my desire to eat. But yes, that's why I did it. I can tolerate not wanting to cook when I get home from work, but I want to be able to work on my bikes.
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:clap:Quite a few years ago I turned up at work on my K75. One of my fellow workers (HD Fatboy rider) came up to me and asked me why BMW made motorcycles.I said I didn't know.He then stated so the gay guys had something to ride, I didn't loose my cool.I just asked him to to tell me three good things about his Harley.First thing he said was it looked good, I said that was debatable but I would him him that.Second thing was it sounded good, I said again debatable but I would give him that as well.Then he looked perplext ,so I asked him the following questions, for the size of the engine does it go any good,he said not really.I then asked if it handled well ,again the answer no not really.Is it comfortable,no not really.By this time the group around us was starting to chuckle.I said all right then give me the third thing .He looked confused for a while then just stormed off.About three months later he again approached me. He stated he was selling the Fatboy and could I help him look for a BMW.He must of changed sexual orientatation.
Regards Martin
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Bear in mind HD's "Project LiveWire", which is looking more and more like an eventuality (instead of an interest-generating PR stunt). Clearly, they realize the 'next big thing' in biking is electric propulsion and they're busy applying for patents left and right, revealing that they've been very busy in the R&D departments.
Before we raise the bugles and hoist the casket, remember that HD sells more bikes quarterly than most other manufacturers move in a year. As well, their 'bobber' lineup continues to proliferate and its aimed squarely at the beards n flannels crowd. But a sales dip, even a sales decline doesn't change the fact that HD's bread and butter continues to be the post-50's crowd. More moneyed, more time on their hands and no kids. Just get them onto the sales floor; from there HD wows and sells them with one of the best dealer networks in existence and one of the most successfully crafted brands in marketing history.
As for BMW, they have been reaching deeply into the pre-50's market for some time now. Their lineup has never been more exciting, with newer, affordable (and smaller cc) models forthcoming they're gunning for much the same thing as Harley-Davidson: brand indoctrination and brand loyalty.
Motorcycles are an interesting product, really. Totally 'unnecessary'*, they are for most people a hobby, a diversion - a lifestyle. The marketing of them, therefore, continues to prove fascinating.
*Asia, et al, notwithstanding where people rely on cheap, reliable bikes as their primary means of transportation.
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Bear in mind HD's "Project LiveWire", which is looking more and more like an eventuality (instead of an interest-generating PR stunt). Clearly, they realize the 'next big thing' in biking is electric propulsion and they're busy applying for patents left and right, revealing that they've been very busy in the R&D departments.
Before we raise the bugles and hoist the casket, remember that HD sells more bikes quarterly than most other manufacturers move in a year. As well, their 'bobber' lineup continues to proliferate and its aimed squarely at the beards n flannels crowd. But a sales dip, even a sales decline doesn't change the fact that HD's bread and butter continues to be the post-50's crowd. More moneyed, more time on their hands and no kids. Just get them onto the sales floor; from there HD wows and sells them with one of the best dealer networks in existence and one of the most successfully crafted brands in marketing history.
As for BMW, they have been reaching deeply into the pre-50's market for some time now. Their lineup has never been more exciting, with newer, affordable (and smaller cc) models forthcoming they're gunning for much the same thing as Harley-Davidson: brand indoctrination and brand loyalty.
Motorcycles are an interesting product, really. Totally 'unnecessary'*, they are for most people a hobby, a diversion - a lifestyle. The marketing of them, therefore, continues to prove fascinating.
*Asia, et al, notwithstanding where people rely on cheap, reliable bikes as their primary means of transportation.
Are they gonna come with amplified loudspeakers to reproduce the "potato" sound?
I can't F-ing stand the ones with pipes you hear coming from a mile behind and for a mile after they pass (or you pass them, more than likely), when you have a full face helmet, earplugs, and music playing through your intercom
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Ha! They actually have the bike come with a 'jet turbine inspired' whine. Not kidding...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhPZTrSmBw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhPZTrSmBw)
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Kinda sad that we define ourselves by these things....stuff made by other people and spun to us with a variety of messages. I bought my Kawi because I thought it would be a good bike to own to re-introduce myself to motorcycling after a 35 year hiatus. The Japanese brands are reliable, if not a little common. No great sin there. And Eddy (my Concours...named after my Mom) has not disappointed. A great bike that does a lot of things well. Incidentally, my first bike was a '73 Kawi 350 triple...wish I still had her. I was still drawn, however, to these funny looking BMW K-bikes. An airhead never came into the equation...it was going to be a K75 or K100. It was really a question of aesthetics and being impressed with the history of the introduction of this unique engine format. My bike will be 30 years old this year (2016). I'm almost twice her age, but feel like half of that. I love being on both bikes and assume my fellow bikers, regardless of brand, feel the same way. So as much as manufacturers would like to divide and conquer this bike-riding population, I say enjoy all of them! Mix and match, buy a sell, buy and keep....whatever your spouse will bear! Just get out and ride. Most will wave back, but not all. Most will happily chat about their machines, but not all. Don't be afraid to compliment someone on their bike of choice....always a nice ice-breaker.
Happy trails!
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Kyle10 - Good points, all.
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Thanks, Don. Appreciated.
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I've ridden just about everything between BMW and Zundapp! Anybody got an Ariel?
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Speaking of bad-ass, I'm sure most of us have seen that television ad for the CanAm Spyder with the shots of the guy riding it trying to look bad-ass or something, but mostly something. Made we cringe. Bad-ass can only be done on H-D or vintage Brit.
I have to disagree on this. There are lots of bikes that are bad ass other than the ones you mentioned. IMO a bike like the Kawasaki H1 Mach III is far more bad ass than any Harley could ever be. I don't see how today's Harley is bad ass at all; it's a 2 wheel equivalent of a Buick with clientele to match. Harley's bad ass days ended when they stopped making the shovel. As for the Vintage Brit bikes, yes they are totally cool! :2thumbup:
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The bikes aren't bad ass in and of themselves. But guess which brand all of the meth makers/dealers ride? Which brand of ride, bikers regularly gang-fight and sometimes kill each other over drug turf and other illicit activities? Guess which brand of bike has by far the most riders in prison? Yes and there are plenty of dentists and retired lawyers riding HD's that want to look the part as well. That's the Harley legacy.
Want a Harley?
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Who cares, ride what you like and don't worry about anybody else.
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Speaking of bad-ass, I'm sure most of us have seen that television ad for the CanAm Spyder with the shots of the guy riding it trying to look bad-ass or something, but mostly something. Made we cringe. Bad-ass can only be done on H-D or vintage Brit.
I have to disagree on this. There are lots of bikes that are bad ass other than the ones you mentioned. IMO a bike like the Kawasaki H1 Mach III is far more bad ass than any Harley could ever be. I don't see how today's Harley is bad ass at all; it's a 2 wheel equivalent of a Buick with clientele to match. Harley's bad ass days ended when they stopped making the shovel. As for the Vintage Brit bikes, yes they are totally cool! :2thumbup:
I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about badass bikes, but people who buy a bike to be a badass. You know, the guys who wear "colors" and do stuff like throw kegs through the windshields of cop cars. These are the guys who are often referred to as "pirates". The Can Am Spyder ad had this guy who looked like he was trying to cop some of that vibe or something like Can Am was trying to pitch a little of the outlaw vibe. It was kind of creepy in a weird way. At least it was to me.
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My point is that it hasn't changed in decades so why even bring it up. Lets talk about our bikes, what mods you've made etc. Why a K75S looks so good etc.Where you want to ride next, what is next on your bike wish list.
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I guess. But this topic reminds me of an old line I heard somewhere...What's the difference between a Hoover and a Harley?... The position of the dirt bag.
:yow
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Speaking of bad-ass, I'm sure most of us have seen that television ad for the CanAm Spyder with the shots of the guy riding it trying to look bad-ass or something, but mostly something. Made we cringe. Bad-ass can only be done on H-D or vintage Brit.
I have to disagree on this. There are lots of bikes that are bad ass other than the ones you mentioned. IMO a bike like the Kawasaki H1 Mach III is far more bad ass than any Harley could ever be. I don't see how today's Harley is bad ass at all; it's a 2 wheel equivalent of a Buick with clientele to match. Harley's bad ass days ended when they stopped making the shovel. As for the Vintage Brit bikes, yes they are totally cool! :2thumbup:
I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about badass bikes, but people who buy a bike to be a badass. You know, the guys who wear "colors" and do stuff like throw kegs through the windshields of cop cars. These are the guys who are often referred to as "pirates". The Can Am Spyder ad had this guy who looked like he was trying to cop some of that vibe or something like Can Am was trying to pitch a little of the outlaw vibe. It was kind of creepy in a weird way. At least it was to me.
Ok I kind of see what you are saying I think...
The thing is, most of these posers that try to look like badasses look like fools because they can't pull off the look. Especially those choppers things; the bikes themselves may look bad ass in its own weird way but the fact of the matter is, no human being actually look good on it with its ridiculous gyno-chair seating position and their armpits exposed with the ape hangers. :hehehe
One guy that did totally pull off the bad ass look on a Harley was Arnold on the Fat Boy in Terminator 2.
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If everyone liked and rode the same thing you would only have one bike,extremely boring.Ride what you like, and respect other peoples choices.You need diversity.
Regards Martin
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So I need to buy more bikes is how I translate that?
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So I need to buy more bikes is how I translate that?
Yes that's the right attitude! :clap:
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Yup, it's called Kpox.
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got 2 BMW, 1 Yamaha, need a Honda, Ariel, Zundapp, Henderson, H-D, Hyosong, aprilia,KTM, BSA, Triumph,Kawasaki, Penton, Velocette, Ducati, Moto-guzzi, Ural, Dnepr, Moto Morini, Laverda, what did I leave out?
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Everyone needs more bikes.
Regards Martin
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A Norton.
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Greeves
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Yeah, what he said. A Norton
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Reeves, haven't seen one since I saw that Bultaco and an Ossa on the same day
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Greeves, Bultaco, and Ossa on the same day. Must have been an enduro museum. Or a worm hole to 1969.
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I was a wee lad, the place was Rocky Butte on the east side of Portland, before they put in the I205 freeway
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what did I leave out?
A Brough Superior.
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...Merkel?
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Ural. Strangers come up to me and say "if everyone had one of those this would be a better world" Even my mother in law like it and she hates everything. And I'm riding year round round now, all the guys in harley emblazoned PU trucks give thumbs up to the fool on the obsolete commie rig laughing his ass off in the snow!
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Now I want to put a big roundel with flames on the rear window of my Subaru. Not any worse than the HD tributes you see mostly on pickups.
A little weird when you see a lifted fullsize truck with Honda or Yamaha
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got 2 BMW, 1 Yamaha, need a Honda, Ariel, Zundapp, Henderson, H-D, Hyosong, aprilia,KTM, BSA, Triumph,Kawasaki, Penton, Velocette, Ducati, Moto-guzzi, Ural, Dnepr, Moto Morini, Laverda, what did I leave out?
Hodaka, Puch (not the mops)
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How about a VanVeen? Dutch bike with Wankel (rotary) engine....a very rare bird, indeed.Saw one in Germany back in '76. Didn't make it, needless to say.
And Chaos....you put a smile on my face just looking at that picture! The Urals are intriguing. Saw a guy in my town riding one in winter....there was no snow at the time but he was equipped. The Urals don't seem to pretend to be anything but old school bikes for the rough and ready. There is a niche...
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How about a VanVeen? Dutch bike with Wankel (rotary) engine....a very rare bird, indeed.Saw one in Germany back in '76. Didn't make it, needless to say.
And Chaos....you put a smile on my face just looking at that picture! The Urals are intriguing. Saw a guy in my town riding one in winter....there was no snow at the time but he was equipped. The Urals don't seem to pretend to be anything but old school bikes for the rough and ready. There is a niche...
I was reading a review on some heated gloves, Gerbing's I think...a reviewer in Alaska said the gloves were warm when on their Ural when its -47f :riding: . That's F-ing cold but hey if you can stay warm why not?
People ask me how I do it when it's just below freezing
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How about a VanVeen?
http://www.odd-bike.com/2012/12/van-veen-ocr-1000-dutch-wankel-powered.html (http://www.odd-bike.com/2012/12/van-veen-ocr-1000-dutch-wankel-powered.html)
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Honey, I'm home. Guess what I bought today!!! .............thanks, Laitch, for digging that up. It's a nice looking bike. Would certainly be fun to at least ride one. But at $115,000 you can count me out. Don't think the Dutch will be conquering the bike world with that offering....it is, still, a neat part of motorcycle history.
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Pierce Arrow made a bike! Montesa. I can remember wanting a Hodaka pretty bad. Cant forget the Enfield!
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Try this I had one of eleven Ducati Mountaineers imported into Australia .Bought new from Pratts in Elizabeth St Melbourne.Delivered by a BMW fitted with a flat cargo chair.
Wish I still had it.
Regards Martin
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What is a Duc mountaineer?
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1969 Ducati Mountaineer red & silver 100cc two stroke chrome plated bore, single seat with rear rack high exhaust. Hi lo ratio was engaged by splitting chain then undoing 4 bolts on the rear sprocket ,rotating large back sprocket and pulling out.You then did up the bolts, and removed a short piece of chain from your tool box and added it to the chain.it also came equipped with Ceat knobbies and a bicycle type tyre pump complete with Ducati logo.I rode it once during a rainstorm 406 km from Albury in NSW to Mt Martha in Victoria with no goggles and no wet weather gear,fell asleep and ran off the the road into an irrigation channel , took me 1/2 hour to drag it up the channel wall .I'd drag it up 3 feet and slide back two nearly froze to death.the follies of youth, my first registered bike at 17. I've only seen one other and that was the road version called a Cadet in the now closed Haigslea Motorcycle Museum.I had a pretty good Ducati book by Alan Cathcart and the Mountaineer does not get a mention.
Regards Martin
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I was browsing ebay for a riding suit for my wife and this popped up on the right side...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Top-Passage-Black-Leather-Size-6/231671442042?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003150253%26meid%3Db4acd6637ceb4f228902a57113f686ea%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281870796159 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Top-Passage-Black-Leather-Size-6/231671442042?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003150253%26meid%3Db4acd6637ceb4f228902a57113f686ea%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281870796159)
...I mean those leather vests that Harley guys wear are gonna provide close to zero meaningful crash protection so this makes sense for ladies. Then again if my wife would wear it I'd switch to the dark side :falldown:
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I was browsing ebay for a riding suit for my wife and this popped up on the right side...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Top-Passage-Black-Leather-Size-6/231671442042?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003150253%26meid%3Db4acd6637ceb4f228902a57113f686ea%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281870796159 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Top-Passage-Black-Leather-Size-6/231671442042?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003150253%26meid%3Db4acd6637ceb4f228902a57113f686ea%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281870796159)
...I mean those leather vests that Harley guys wear are gonna provide close to zero meaningful crash protection so this makes sense for ladies. Then again if my wife would wear it I'd switch to the dark side :falldown:
Usually women that I see riding on back of Hardleys are a lot bigger than size 6s.... :yow
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I was browsing ebay for a riding suit for my wife and this popped up on the right side...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Top-Passage-Black-Leather-Size-6/231671442042?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003150253%26meid%3Db4acd6637ceb4f228902a57113f686ea%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281870796159 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Top-Passage-Black-Leather-Size-6/231671442042?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003150253%26meid%3Db4acd6637ceb4f228902a57113f686ea%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281870796159)
...I mean those leather vests that Harley guys wear are gonna provide close to zero meaningful crash protection so this makes sense for ladies. Then again if my wife would wear it I'd switch to the dark side :falldown:
Usually women that I see riding on back of Hardleys are a lot bigger than size 6s.... :yow
I have observed the same
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what did I leave out?
You left out the Nimbus type C aka bumblebee. The true predecessor of the K-bikes = 750cm, 4 cyl inline longitudinal with dry clutch and shaft drive. BMW copi'ed the Nimbus Type C with the engine turned 90 degrees down. BMW even copied the location of the ingnition key :hehehe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_%28motorcycle%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_%28motorcycle%29)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNilj_FLf1Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNilj_FLf1Y)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sw9BBuiEow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sw9BBuiEow)
The Danish Nimbus tref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7s1WByoTGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7s1WByoTGk)
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I can't get enough of motorcycles. The only thing stopping me from being a mechanic is that I don't want to ruin my favorite hobby: working on my bikes. So I ended up being a Chef lol.
Good decision. My favorite hobby was ham radio (mostly building stuff), right up until I got my first "real" job, as an engineer in a two-way radio factory (RCA, Meadowlands, Pa). It was a fantastic education, but ruined amateur radio for me for the next 40 years. Wouldn't want to do that with my beloved motorcycles.
--Greg
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separation anxiety of the lifestyle rider...
One killed, one injured during hostage situation in Neenah (http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/neenah-officials-reportedly-respond-to-hostage-situation-b99629013z1-360668641.html)
By Cary Spivak, Bruce Vielmetti and Breann Schossow of the Journal Sentinel Updated: 8:26 p.m.
EMAIL PRINT
One person was killed and a police officer wounded Saturday during a hostage situation at a Neenah motorcycle shop.
After most of the hostages were released, one person inside the shop exited with a gun and was shot by police when he ignored demands to drop it, and died later, said Police Chief Kevin Wilkinson. He noted that investigators were still trying to sort out a confusing situation.
During a Saturday night news conference, Wilkinson would not identify the victim, the injured officer or a second suspect, who surrendered after a four-hour standoff involving hostages at Eagle Nation Cycle.
Wilkinson said the officer, who was wearing protective armor and helmet as he entered the business as part of a team trying to free the hostages, was shot in the helmet, which deflected what could have been a deadly shot. The officer was treated at a hospital and released.
The shooting of the one suspect and surrender of the other came after the attempt to free the hostages.
"Eventually, the hostages were released, after negotiations," Wilkinson said. "The subject did come out and was taken into custody."
The attorney for one of the businesses owners said a man entered about 9 a.m. demanding the return of a motorcycle he had sold to another person, who in turn had brought it to the shop for some repairs.
Neenah Mayor Dean Kaufert said the suspect had fired about 30 shots. Wilkinson said he couldn't estimate the total number of rounds fired between the suspect and police, and possibly another person inside the business.
He said the matter would be reviewed by the state Division of Criminal Investigation, which investigates officer-involved shootings.
More than 70 officers from more than a dozen agencies responded to the incident, Wilkinson said.
When police learned hostages were taken, the SWAT team was activated.
The standoff was prompted by a man who changed his mind about selling his motorcycle, a Green Bay lawyer and friend of the owner of Eagle Nation Cycles told the Journal Sentinel. Cole White, pieced together this version of events based on texts and calls Steven Erato sent as he hid in the basement of the shop:
Erato was working on motorcycle Saturday when he heard a commotion and saw an intruder firing shots. Erato went to the basement. At 9:31 he texted White, "We have an active shooter situation going on at eagle nation. I am hiding in the basement"
White said the gunman had sold a motorcycle to another person, who brought it to Eagle Nation for repairs. The original owner wanted it back, he said.
"This this guy came to the shop because he wanted his bike back," White said, stressing that his information was secondhand. "He wanted the money and the bike ... These people (at Eagle Nation) had nothing to do with the transaction."
Erato was not injured, White said.
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I think all the manufacturers need to build what motorcyclists want. The only new bikes that made me turn my head at the recent bike show was a Yam SR400 and I really liked the KTM ISDT 525EXC. Other than that I'm not sure who is buying these new bikes?
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I agree.....too much angular plastic that morps into sameness. The RNineT stood out in 2014, as did the S1000rr in 2010, but too me most all Jap bikes have an undifferentiated sameness. Ducati & KTM have distinctive styling, but what about the other 95% of the market? "Sameness" and expensive are the chacteristics of the motorcycle market today....maybe why the appeal of customization. Does anyone have a sub-$10,000 motorcycle they would buy today, funds not an issue? I'm hard pressed to name one.
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I agree.....too much angular plastic that morps into sameness. The RNineT stood out in 2014, as did the S1000rr in 2010, but too me most all Jap bikes have an undifferentiated sameness. Ducati & KTM have distinctive styling, but what about the other 95% of the market? "Sameness" and expensive are the chacteristics of the motorcycle market today....maybe why the appeal of customization. Does anyone have a sub-$10,000 motorcycle they would buy today, funds not an issue? I'm hard pressed to name one.
I'd take G650 GS. Or a couple Kawasaki KLR's
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Harley Davidson realizes the future and will be targeting the new young riders with their electric "motorcycle". I expect BMW to follow suit. In my opinion BMW riders would be more likely to endorse electric motorcycles once the battery range triples, and it is able to be quickly recharged.