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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: TrueAce on September 16, 2015, 06:17:14 PM
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My '85 K100RS barn find w/ 36K miles this summer would turn the starter briskly after I installed a new battery. But by accident (carelessness), I shorted the starter cable when installing the battery and managed to mini-melt the battery cable to the starter relay, starter relay and starter cable (!).Replaced starter relay, repaired cables, tested circuits, and this is where the head-scratching began.Grounds & fuses & other relays test good.
Battery to relay, ignition relay, & ignition switch shows 12.85v, but starter switch will not activate the starter, and no power shown on the starter cable side of the relay. I replaced the starter relay with a generic NAPA relay which appears identical, but I am suspicious that the NAPA relay isn't working as the OEM switch would. Should I be able to measure a voltage in the blade connectors on the starter relay which connect to wiring running to the starter switch?before proceeding, I am seeking guidance before replacing the starter relay and/or starter switch. .
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You need to check for +12v power on the blk/grn wire at the starter button.
I know you were doing away with the Neutral circuit of the cluster, and you were wanting to do away with the clutch interlock switch. Both of these(one or the other) provided +12v power to the start button. If you eliminated both, you need to get power from fuse #1(where the interlocks were fed from) to the blk/grn wire of the start switch harness.
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Don't get angry for my asking....
What position is the Kill Switch in?
If it is in the center then test to see if it is flowing power (continuity test).
Next possibility could be that you fried the new battery. Sometimes they will read correct voltage but this will be a surface charge that masks a shorted cell when under load. (This is possible but would be rare).
Check resistance of your cable. A battery cable that has over heated and fused could have breaks all through the insulated line. (More probable than the battery)
Later,
Freelancer
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Appreciate the quick responses, guys. Scott, I have no voltage at the starter switch, and I have eliminated the clutch switch, so I will run a link to black-green as you suggest :should that be connected from fuse to the starter relay black-green starter wire?. Freelance, I would never get angry over suggesting a dumb oversight!! Been there, done that, thank you! Kill switch IS centered and tests positive for continuity, and disables the ignition, but the starter button shows no voltage. Took the battery into the store right after for a voltage/amp load test which was OK. Also rebuilt the cables from bare wire, so we're good there. I will double check resistance on the wires: relay-to-starter, starter-to-ignition relay (aside: why does the starter hot cable feed the small wire to the ignition relay?)
Should I get an output reading from the two-prongs on the starter relay which is the connection for the starter/kill switch once the black-green wire is linked to the fuse? Just seems for the starter switch to activate the hot feed coming into the starter relay from the battery and effect a feed to the starter, there has to be current flow to the starter switch, which upon activation triggers the starter relay to feed the starter cable. Am I thinking about this correctly? Thanks so much for taking time to respond!
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If you haven't been following this thread, check it out.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,7374.0/topicseen.html
You need to connect your +12v source to pin #6 of the 9 pin plug for the right hand combo switch. Right side under the fuel tank.
The other small wire connected to the output starter lead of the starter relay should be for the load shed relay.
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Gotcha.....know exactly that plug. BTW, removed both sets of handlebar switches in anticipation of replacing the bar, but the connectors under the tank are still there. Also, I copy on the load shed relay, after rechecking I misidentified that as ignition relay. That wire has been refurbished and tests fine as does the load shed relay.
After studying the wiring diagrams extensively while I was into all this, I removed the flasher relay, bulbs relay, and horn relay cause the items controlled are all removed. Scambler GS style bikes like the recent posts from beautiful Scotland don't need turn signals,flashers, parking lights, and horns! Did I screw anything up with removing those relays as "untended consequences"? Thanks for your patience and expertise!
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Basically the terminal #6(black/green) of that connector is the feed to the stock starter switch. the output of the stock switch(that goes to the starter relay coil connection) is terminal #1(black/yellow wire).
So basically what ever you use for a starter switch will be connected to term #6 and term #1 to complete the "start" circuit.
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That clarifies things for me a lot, Scott. Failed to mention that the starter/kill switch wiring is still connected to the right control wiring, as is the ignition switch which is functioning fine.So if ignition is getting +12v from that right side connector, I thought the starter switch would, too. Starter switch harness plugs into the two blades on starter relay,linking two black-green wires plus a brown-red to fuses. Maybe that's my bad wire?I'll connect a new link fromm fuse #1 to the starter relay blade to see if that establishes power to the starter switch. I am not introducing an alternate starter switch until I figure out the stock switch which WAS working before I started removing switches(!). BTW, thanks for the link, which I have been following, but the fact there are three relays in series stunned me given what the NAPA store is charging for relays.
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Your alternate power for the black/green needs to come from the fuse and go to the rh combo switch terminal 6, not anywhere near the starter relay. The stock black/yellow should still be intact from terminal 1 to the starter relay.
In the other thread, the op is wanting to re-create the neutral safety circuit for his aftermarket setup, while you are not-- so you don't need that part. The principle is still the same, you need to get +12 to the blk/grn on terminal #6 as the power source for the starter button.
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So the starter/kill switch was removed from the right hand grip, and 'redesigned with a Dremel. Scott suggested power from fuse. #1 to starter switch, but that seemed too easy. So I interrupted the feed to the kill switch to jump to the after switch, and the starter worked! Eventual site for the switch will be atop the coil box. Need to back-track to tidy things up. Thanks so much to Scott and the Form! More progress and or problems will be reported!