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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: branandfox on April 28, 2015, 12:44:57 PM
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currently have 40K on the clock and no idea on past maintenance from past owner. I have been working on the bike since i received it at 27K on the clock and have since then been restoring it to better working order. Next winter I plan to replace all the rubber gaskets on the engines covers and seals. This spring the radiator fan went out so I am replacing all the coolant hoses and gaskets. Just getting an idea for when I may need to adjust the valve clearance or inspect it.
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greetings branandfox...
not sure about the ten hundert fifty rs motobrick...
butts on my eleven hundert rs motobricks... everytime or at a minimum every other time i stop for fuel i put it on the sidestand... pop out the oil sightglass... adjust my valves through the sightglass hole... pop the sightglass back in... commence to motobricking...
j o
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My 90 K75 had 48k when I did the valves and they were still in spec. If it isn't making a lot of noise and you don't have performance issues, its a 50 -50 deal
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Shes a frankenbrick. Half k11 half k100 so shes a 10fifty. Okay. Ive got some noise but its coming from the fairing piece that sits under the nose where the forks enter through. Can't figure out how to batten that hatch down so to speak. I know the 100s are different as far as the shims tightening down on you. Albeit ive heard it doesnt happen often. I suppose ill check and change all the rubber anyway just for peace of mind.
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I had head rebuild/valve replacement on my '97 at aprox 25K(in 2008) and I did change 4 valve buckets this spring at 49K, and they were not making any unusual noises.
Anytime is not a bad time to check them, especially if you don't know when they were checked last.
I changed 2 on my '95 this spring, and I changed a couple of others on it a couple of years ago as well.(it's over 100K).
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Clearances tend to get tighter over time. If a valve, especially an exhaust valve, gets tight it will not be noisy but it will burn. It won't seat long enough, or at all, to transfer heat to the valve seat. Fortunately most bricks don't need much adjusting, but it's easy enough to check them. So get on it.
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My 90 K75 had 48k when I did the valves and they were still in spec. If it isn't making a lot of noise and you don't have performance issues, its a 50 -50 deal
All I can say is tread carefully.
I have heard that 16v shims stay within tolerance.
However my recent fiasco, suggests otherwise.
I suffered catastrophic failure of cylinder 2, and whilst I do have not got into investigations as to what caused it, there is a high likelihood (amongst other things) that overly tight exhaust valve shims in that cylinder were the likely culprit.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,6809.0.html
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I did mine at about 90k on one bike and on the other when I bought it at about 70...both needed adjustment. The exhaust side on the higher mileage one were definitely in need. Isn't the recommended service interval every 50k mikes? If I had to pull a number out of the air, that one wojld work for me.
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I have heard that 16v shims stay within tolerance.
However my recent fiasco, suggests otherwise.
Personally, my experience(which is limited compared to some others) leads me to believe that they are really good.
When I worked on mine this spring, I put the micrometer to every bucket on the '97 and every one was at the indicated thickness specification.
It was the valve wear that narrowed the clearance to require thinner buckets.
There is a limit to how low the bucket thickness goes, then you have to replace the valves.
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Check out Chris Harris' youtube video on K100 valve adjustment. He said in the 13 years he worked on the 4 valve K bikes he ran into one or two that went out of adjustment. The 2 valve bikes are a different story.
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They're easy enough to check. The worst that can happen is you check them, find some are tight, then put the cover back on and have a shop or dealer adjust them (which is what I did)
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There is also a guy somewhere in the US mid-West, I think, who makes the valve shim replacement tools required. Search the threads for it. Apparently the turnaround time on orders is short...except if you're shipping to SA!
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All great information, I will definitely be checking my valve clearance next winter. Has anyone here done their own adjustments or would it be enough of a hassle to take it to someone to have it serviced?
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I have seen a thread from Tim out in Washington talking about it and I'm sure lots of other guys have done it. As the video will show you, in Chris' opinion, loose is ok. Tight is bad. The shims are little steel discs of varying thicknesses. Somebody here even swaps the shims with his Beemer dealer. I'm guessing they are reusable, within reason (spec). You can do it with the right tools. Take your time. Do the research. Go for it!
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I'd check them when you buy a bike (so now), and then every 15k miles after, maybe 20k. It's an easy and quick task, and a failure is catastrophic. My k75 had 3 tight exhaust valves when I got it at 83k, and when I tore down the engine after replacing it with a low mileage unit I refurbished at 100k, the exhaust valves were definitely worn, probably exacerbated by the tight clearances.
The shims are definitely reusable. Hardened steel, in an oil bathed area, free to rotate (so not just sliding on the cam lobes)
Looks like the engine is a 2-valve? Much easier task then.
To check them, pull the cover off. 10 shoulder screws or so. Then you'll need a set of feeler gauges. 0.010"-0.012" for the exhaust (looser side is better) and 0.006"-0.008" for intake. Intakes rarely move. Exhausts can tighten.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFkPnLVkxWQ
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I'd check them when you buy a bike (so now), and then every 15k miles after, maybe 20k. It's an easy and quick task, and a failure is catastrophic. My k75 had 3 tight exhaust valves when I got it at 83k, and when I tore down the engine after replacing it with a low mileage unit I refurbished at 100k, the exhaust valves were definitely worn, probably exacerbated by the tight clearances.
The shims are definitely reusable. Hardened steel, in an oil bathed area, free to rotate (so not just sliding on the cam lobes)
Looks like the engine is a 2-valve? Much easier task then.
To check them, pull the cover off. 10 shoulder screws or so. Then you'll need a set of feeler gauges. 0.010"-0.012" for the exhaust (looser side is better) and 0.006"-0.008" for intake. Intakes rarely move. Exhausts can tighten.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFkPnLVkxWQ
He say's in that video, if you have a 16v engine you are wasting your time.
Hmmm.
I'm not so sure about that, and I have an 1100 in my garage with shot and broken exhaust valves on one cylinder, and dented piston crown.
All pointing to the distinct possibility of overly tight exhaust valve clearance on cylinder 2.
Honestly, much as I respect this guy, I would ignore this piece of advice and check those clearances.
After all, it's not going to be him paying your bills if your engine goes bang.
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It sure sounds like the 16V bikes don't need adjustments as often but yeah I would still check them maybe every 15-20k
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He say's in that video, if you have a 16v engine you are wasting your time.
Hmmm.
I'm not so sure about that, and I have an 1100 in my garage with shot and broken exhaust valves on one cylinder, and dented piston crown.
All pointing to the distinct possibility of overly tight exhaust valve clearance on cylinder 2.
Honestly, much as I respect this guy, I would ignore this piece of advice and check those clearances.
After all, it's not going to be him paying your bills if your engine goes bang.
In general, it seems one would be wasting their time to adjust it at least. Definitely worth at least checking the valves, tightening valves can be a symptom of other problems as well.
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I check them once/year. Don't always adjust, but check during winter maintenance cycle. It's free.
For reference, I ride 8-10k / year.
Tom
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There is also a guy somewhere in the US mid-West, I think, who makes the valve shim replacement tools required. Search the threads for it. Apparently the turnaround time on orders is short...except if you're shipping to SA!
His name is Kenneth Lively -- sells valve adjustment tool and clutch centering tool, both very affordable. There's a youtube video about how to use the valve adjustment tool that's very helpful. There's also a thread here on the forum from last year about how to get the shims out if they stick.
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In general, it seems one would be wasting their time to adjust it at least. Definitely worth at least checking the valves, tightening valves can be a symptom of other problems as well.
He says in the video, if you have any of the 16v variants, "you are wasting your time even checking them".
I think that is very dangerous advice.
It's such a simple job.
If I hadn't been so lazy and checked mine earlier, my bike would still be running now.
He goes on to say that if they are loose, leave them the "f**k" alone, which of coorse is correct.
Loose is OK.
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The tools are easily made with some plate stock and an angle grinder, as well.
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WMax, can you offer any more info on making these tools? How thick would the plate stock have to be? Do you have a template for the tools? I just checked my valves. It is an easy job. One intake looks a little tight. I can only get a .102mm gauge in versus the minimum .150mm on the number 4 intake. The balance of the valves are in spec.
Thanks.
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Here's the template:
http://ibmwr.org/ktech/k100-8v-adjust-tool.pdf
My lever one is only about 4-5 inches long. I use a piece of pipe to give it a bit more leverage.
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I built the tools from Wmax's post, they work pretty well.
I went with 1/4", since I had a piece of scrap, that was large enough. I think it took an hour or so. I even welded on a long old screw driver handle.
My bike is just over 30k on the odometer, but who really knows if it's the original odometer... :dunno2: #2 & #3 intake were right on, the #1 intake was a little tight.
All three of the exhaust valves needed adjusting, I think only #3 was in spec, but barely at the tight end of the spec.
I found some shims local, which was awesome. But, what's up with the shims, I couldn't even find a 245 to order anywhere on the web. I could find sets (big $), there's even a fellow motobricker with some in the market (now on Ebay), but I'm pretty sure any of them over 250 would have been a waste of $. If I couldn't find them local I was going to call EagleMike (of KLR do-hickey fame), his website seemed to indicate that he would probably have them.