MOTOBRICK.COM
TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: svebbe on June 21, 2014, 04:45:25 PM
-
Hi,
Bought me an very cheap but well looked after K75 1987 a couple of months ago. Runs good, excepts for one thing. When motor is cold it´s hard to change gear from 2nd to 3rd. Its impossible before the motor is warm. My guess is that the clutch splines need to be lubed. I will do this. I´ve done it before on another K75 i had. I´ve ordered some sealings already:
Shaft seal 22X35X7 1 23121451151
Shaft seal 9X15X4 1 23211451159
I´m also looking to order the following seals to be sure:
GROOVED BALL BEARING 511 00 1 06/1988 07119984020
Shaft seal 35X47X7 1 33117665838
Do i need something else to be ordered before i start the project? Just want everything at home before i start. Spline lube is BMW Staburags. I will order new clutch if needed.
-
Välkommen, this (http://classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/splinelube/splinelube.htm) could become useful.
Mvh. Inge K.
-
Forget the Staburags and go with Guard Dog moly grease. The Staburags is barium based and I don't recommend.
-
I feel that Honda's Moly 60 grease is suitable, though I know a lot of motobricker's like GD Moly. But, there's a good chance of a Honda dealer being within driveable distance from you (mine had it in stock) and is prescribed for use on things like Gold Wing splines
-
Yep the Honda moly will work just fine also. I grease mine with a little bit of GD and is shifts smooth as greased Teflon. I am a believer now.
-
Thanks everyone for input on grease. I will try to find it here in Sweden, or eBay. And thanks for the PDF´s, Inge. Very useful! I made a walk-though myself on the job i did some years ago, but it was not as detailed as yours.
About the seals to change, am i right with the ones i counted up before? Since i will do the spline job i want to change all available seals that are in there.
-
Have a look here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moly-60-AS60-Molyslip-Antiscuff-Paste-60-Moly-100g-Tub-Replace-Honda-Moly60-/271472630378?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3f35079a6a).
I would also have changed the seals in front of the clutch, so you don't have to do the work all over again one
of the forthcoming years........but also depends on how long you gonna keep the bike.
Especially the o-ring have a tendency to dry out and crack......also buy the locknut, basket screws and Lock washers.
As you also intend to change the seal ring at the FD input, I attach a Picture from another forum....
"how to lock the FD".
-
BMW is currently recommending Castrol Optimol TA paste (http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/104BC52BC4CE1D06802577960030186B/$File/453856_XI_en.pdf) which is what I've been using for the last 45k miles.
-
Because the horse needs to be beaten more...
I find it odd that an anti-seize compound is being suggested by BMW when there are things produced specifically for motorcycle drivetrain splines:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/1972285_10152282200177908_1854455677_n.jpg)
-
Well IMHO not all things BMW recommends or does are correct. But in general they do good. I could have lived with less loctite when I took everything apart during the rebuild.
-
honda moly 60 paste... the donkeys like it so much i gotts spares...
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/owrstrich/1Cell14/IMG_20140622_191957_zpsuahwq30q.jpg)
j o
-
I've heard several times Honda Moly is good for final drive with 6k service interval but not as good as GD or BMW- approved lube for clutch and shaft splines with +15k service interval. I also got an explanation of why that is so which I promptly forgot. Maybe someone here has those details to share?
-
I've heard several times Honda Moly is good for final drive with 6k service interval but not as good as GD or BMW- approved lube for clutch and shaft splines with +15k service interval. I also got an explanation of why that is so which I promptly forgot. Maybe someone here has those details to share?
In my opinion the honda moly 60 is too thin and not tenacious enough. I did my first lube with the Honda stuff, since I had it, but down shifting shortly went dodgy again. When I opened it up to redo it, the shaft was dry. :dunno
I redid it with GD and it's been fine since. The GD is really sticky messy slippery.
I haven't tried this test (the shits to much $ :yes), but I would bet if you put a blob of HM60 and a blob of GD on a piece of cardboard the HM60 would flatten or run level. The GD would stay a blob.
-
If you have both, don't test the viscosity; mix them and use that glop on the splines. Best of both worlds because the Moly 60 has the 60% content and the GD has the sticking power.
-
I would also have changed the seals in front of the clutch, so you don't have to do the work all over again one
of the forthcoming years........but also depends on how long you gonna keep the bike.
Especially the o-ring have a tendency to dry out and crack......also buy the locknut, basket screws and Lock washers.
As you also intend to change the seal ring at the FD input, I attach a Picture from another forum....
"how to lock the FD".
Do you know the partnumbers of these seals (so i don´t get the wrong ones)
Thanks for all feedback!
-
I mailed GuardDogMoly.com to ask about their stuff and got this answer:
Guard Dog’s Moly Grease and a Moly Paste
Guard Dog’s GD-525 is a grease. Moly pastes (including Guard Dog’s GD-570) is an anti-seize.
We believe GD-525 is a better lubricant to reduce wear on splines than is a paste. A grease is designed to prevent wear and lower friction in a dynamic environment, where the two surfaces of metal are in motion against each other. A paste is designed to permit easy break-out of two metal surfaces in a static environment, where fusing of the two surfaces occurs because of rust or corrosion; this is the reason anti-seizes are pastes.
There are three components to a grease and paste:
1. Fluid
2. Additives
3. Thickener
GD-525 has an all synthetic fluid that resist heat, moisture, and oxidation. Our fluid is designed to be tacky, which holds the lubricating additives onto the surface of the metal. Pastes commonly used for splines have mineral oil that has a low resistance to heat, moisture and oxidation. They are usually not tacky.
GD-525 has an inorganic (synthetic) thickener. It is “non melt” and resists emulsifying with moisture. Pastes for splines are typically made with a soap-based thickener that will soften and dissipate at high temperatures, including frictional heat, and emulsify with moisture.
GD-525 has an antioxidant to reduce oxidation (degradation) of the fluid from frictional heat and an inhibitor to prevent rust of the metal surfaces. GD-525, with 30% molybdenum disulfide, has more than enough moly to prevent wear of splines in the formulated system of the fluid, additives and thickener.
We offer GD-570 Moly Paste for people who have more confidence in a lubricant with a high content of moly or for people who have had good experience with a moly paste and do not want to change. GD-570 Moly Paste has 73% moly, the most percent of any paste on the market of which we are aware, and an inhibitor to reduce susceptibility of the metal to rust. File GD-29/3-1-14
-
i think if you are smooth on the throttle and smooth on the brakes and possess supernatural motobrick control you could oil them up with 3 in 1 and still be good to go for another hundert thou...
j o
-
Do you know the partnumbers of these seals (so i don´t get the wrong ones)
Thanks for all feedback!
11 11 7 666 186 SHAFT SEAL - 50X80X10 x1 (Should be mounted with 0,5 mm protruding above the surface)
11 21 1 460 456 O-RING - 19X4 x1
11 21 1 460 696 COMPRESSION RING x1
11 21 1 460 797 HEX NUT - M20X1,5 x1
21 21 1 454 417 SCREW x6
21 21 1 242 377 WASHER - A7,4 x6
-
I'll add my vote for the honda stuff.
I did my 20k ago and was amazed at the "slick" downshifts after. Apparently that's the big clue about dry clutch splines.
I read somewhere a very good explanation as to why it makes downshifts sticky but can't find it nor remember the details but it made good engineering sense at the time.
My downshifts are still slick and I plan to pull the transmission this winter for a look and perhaps main seal replacement (the drip is intermittent)
TG