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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: frodef on April 25, 2014, 02:45:47 PM
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Bike just fell over when I tried to put it on the center stand today. Turned out the "foot lever" part almost broke off the main stand part. It's felt heavier than normal to put it on the stand lately, I suppose it's because the stand has been coming apart.
I'm planning to just weld it back on. Anything I should think about before/while/after doing this?
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tubing that the stand is made of is likely full of rust. Your repair may only delay the inevitable need to replace the corroded part. K1100 Stand will fit as a replacement and they didn't seem to rust out. Spacers might be needed to get the rear tire off the ground as the legs a shorter than the K75/100 stand
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There was a post by "Crapdealerbob" with some pictures of a broken K100RS 16v stand
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=431.msg870#msg870 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=431.msg870#msg870)
Although I am no expert his picture shows more the grey crystalline look of metal fatigue rather than corrosion.In your position I would weld stand with inner sleeve & stress relieve unless you can see excessive corrosion.
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I suspect both rust and fatigue... I'll try my best to strengthen it, including getting some help with the welds I guess :euro
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I suspect both rust and fatigue... I'll try my best to strengthen it, including getting some help with the welds I guess :euro
Pity you were not closer I would have been glad to help!
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Bike just fell over when I tried to put it on the center stand today. Turned out the "foot lever" part almost broke off the main stand part. It's felt heavier than normal to put it on the stand lately, I suppose it's because the stand has been coming apart.
Well, that sucks. I use centerstand all the time for fueling and to save space in garage daily when I park. I assume the rust is on the interior of the tubing. What about rust converter? I used it onl the outside of the tubing and it does appear to do what it's supposed to do. Maybe dip the thing in a bath of rust converter?
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What about rust converter?
Good idea, I think I'll try some... (this (http://biltema.no/no/Bilpleie/Rustbeskyttelse/Rusteter-36189/) seems to be a cheap locally available RC).
Here's the damage:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6817788/IMG_20140427_162644.jpg)
And from looking at the underside it seems the whole thing is on its last legs:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6817788/IMG_20140427_162612.jpg)
I'll try some rust converter and then use it for welding practice, not feeling too bad if I'll eventually have to find a replacement part.
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That stand is way beyond bad!
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The only rust converter that you could use on that would be a 7 lb sledge -- and only if you're fixin' to convert it to a pile of reddish dust. BTW I don't think you can weld after applying rust converter. It changes the properties of the metal. Converts the rust to a different compound and inhibits future rust -- that's about it -- doesn't have the properties of metal and although it can be painted you can break it off with a screwdriver and a couple taps from a hammer.
For future reference, though -- below is a thread from the Internet Sidecar Owners Club. This would be a good protective treatment for a new stand. I don't know what good it would do with a stand that already has existing rust, though. I put rust converter on my stand before painting. Will post pix soon. Input appreciated, since I'm considering dipping the lower section of my stand in rust converter and shooting some through the tube next month.
From the Internet Sidecar Club forum --
>> When I build a new frame after the frame is finished I put a pint or so
>> of 90 wt hypoid oil in it and slosh it around and then let it sit for about
>> 30 minutes then pour it out. Rust problem eliminated for good. If you
>> ever do any welding on the frame after that you have to reapply the
>> treatment.
>>
>> Best regards to all
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
.
>>
>> That works well. It worked in the old days when building steel tubing
>> fuselages/frames for airplanes, and it has worked for me in building
>> sidecar rigs.
>>
>> I used a special oil used for its anti-corrosion, anti-rusting
>> properties, from an aircraft supply, mainly because I had a lot of it!
>> Almost any oil will work OK, including engine oil, which, right from the
>> container, has a lot of these helpful anticorrosives, etc.
>>
>> My method was to construct the frame with clean and dry steel tubing, and
>> when all welding, etc., was done, I would drill and tap threads for a small
>> hole, one in each frame member that was closed off from others. I injected
>> oil, and then installed a screw. The oil spreads all over the inside of
>> the tubing in a short amount of time and riding. _Because of that
>> spreading, you really don't need a lot of oil. You do need enough so
>> there is an oily film on all the inside surfaces.
>>
>>
>>
>> Those of you wanting a somewhat more sophisticated oil product, and
>> easier more immediate coverage, can go to a marina and get a pressurized
>> spray can of engine preservative oil, also called Fogging Oil.
>>
>> By using the spray wand, you can fog the insides before assembly,
>> although I would still recommend the hole and thread method. It is just a
>> lot easier to do it that way and avoid welding on oily metal
.at least for
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that there is a school of thought about leaving a small drain hole
>> here and there on the bottom of the tubing, and not plugging those holes,
>> and using them to fog the insides. Drain holes are commonly used. YMMV,
>> depending on construction methods.
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Looking at photos I would definitely go for a good s/h stand,you could weld in new pipe but it would be time consuming.Certainly way beyond rust convertor.
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Weld if you must for something to use for now but do get a K1100 stand and don't look back.
It'll bolt right up and is far stouter than the stock stand.
TG
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Ok ok, I can take a hint... I'll have some fun with my pile of rust (and/or live without a centerstand) until a good deal on a K1100 stand pops up. There's a $20 one in canada on ebay now, but canadian shipping is a bit of a dealbreaker, $175 to here or even $100 just to get it to the US from where I could've had it forwarded.
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Just be careful and read what they are selling.
I've seen ads for the center stand that are upwards of 100 bucks plus shipping that do not include the bracket OR the side stand.
I got lucky and scored a complete unit for about 80 bucks.
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I've seen ads for the center stand that are upwards of 100 bucks plus shipping that do not include the bracket OR the side stand.
Do you know if I'll need a new bracket and side-stand if I get a K1100 unit though? I was thinking/hoping just the main stand "main piece" would fit my existing bracket.
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Looks like Duck's got one right now for $125 -- I'd jump on that ch1t in a heartbeat if my stand was as fried as yours...
http://kbikeparts.com/ (http://kbikeparts.com/)
Search the page for 'center stand' -- he's got least one 4v...reuse your sidestand...not cheap but I've never gotten anything from Drake that wasn't worth every penny.
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All the same and should bolt right up.
The only possible clearance problem is if you have after market exhaust. My side stand springs always drug on the pipe before I made a relocation adapter for my GS conversation.
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So I finally got around to the "welding practice" part...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6817788/IMG_20140802_232828.jpg)
If nothing else, I'm a much better (or at least experienced) welder now, having laid down a pound or so of fresh metal into those tubes :musicboohoo: (Although those welds are still atrocious if you inspect them.) Actually my best lesson was that cheap electrodes are not worth it, when I finally upgraded to some name brand electrodes I was suddenly able to lay down some beads that actually remind me of those from all the youtube welding 101 videos.
I test-fitted the stand back on the bike, and I fumbled it a bit because it's now standing on the peg rather than the actual left-side leg. But it seemed stable, and it was suddenly completely effortless to put it up on the stand (the weeks before it snapped I had to use all my considerable body strength to do it, so watch out if yours is starting to feel heavier than it used to).
I suppose it'll rust up again, but we'll see. I'll get one of those K11 stands if I find a good deal sometime.