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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: jacksdad1963 on April 18, 2014, 07:04:26 PM
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Next job on my old k1100lt! My bike has already had some of the ABS removed, the pump things on each side of the bike are missing and the rear sensor is also missing, just the end of the wire is there!
So, how do i go about renewing the rest of it please? The main control unit directly under the seat is still there, it has steel pipes going forwards and some electric wires on it. It appears that the front brake lines run into it, but looks like the rear is already removed. I don't want to risk having the brakes fail or lock on! So, what is the correct way to get rid of ABS completely? I have a lot of surplus lines and wirinh that can go! Thanks, Mike
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You list your bike as being a '95 in your sig line. That tells me that you have ABSII, so you will not have "pump things" on each side. Those were the old ABSI style.
The "main control unit" that you say is under the seat, is THE abs system for your bike--pump, and all.
Others have removed the pump assy and then have either, 1) connect the in/out lines together, or 2) re-pipe the brake lines from the master cyl locations to the caliper hose connections.
There is a multi-pin plug on the forward facing side of the unit that you can unplug.
Then other than that, on the rearward facing side there is the power connections. There will be 4 wires. 1 +Red(direct from battery un-fused) 1 -Brn and 2 pump relay wires(Ylw/Red--Red/Blue) that will end up back at the multi-pin plug.
The cover to access these power connections slides upwards. If someone else has already been in it, there may be a hole drilled in the cover to access the release catch. If you don't care how it looks just pry it off......... :dunno2:
Disconnect/remove the wires from the terminals(or just cut them without pissing with the cover), insulate the Red one so you don't short it out, and take the stuff out.
Disclaimer-----this is all just my opinion. What you or others have already done to your factory installed equipment is totally on you. If you don't have MOT inspections you should have no issues. Just beware if you do have them or sell the bike to someone that does have to, it may not pass.
After this is the interwebz, anything found here HAS to be true...... :hehehe
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Yep, if it were mine, I would fix the ABS, not remove it.
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Rear sensors are cheap on eBay and there's an ABS2 modulator and brain unit on EBay.co.uk at the moment if yours needed replaced. I'm with Mystic Red on this one - fix it. It probably easier to fix than you think and probably cheaper too.
I had to replace my modulator and got one from David S Walker who's on this forum too. He'll stand over his parts and can be relied upon. Anyway I whipped the old one out and stuck the new one in, bled the system and it all worked great. Give it a go!
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FWIW, I've had a few events where the ABS systems (the ABS II on a KllLT and the integrated system on my K12) saved my bacon. I'd urge repair.
Larry Johnson
El Paso, TX
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95 didn't have the servos everything is under the seat.
Fix if you can.
Mine was fried in every way imaginable. Some moron didn't hook the main ground back up and it pulled ground through the ABS burning up the harness brain and probably the servo. $2800 beater bike I couldn't justify the expense. I would need a whole new main electrical harness (it's part of main). For the bike, brain with servo and then see if the sensors were damaged.
Before gutting it get the warning lights flashing and there is two relays you need to pull to kill this lights on I know is blue but I can't recall if the second was. When they are flashing you can feel the relay clicking.
I made up a couple hard lines to by pass the servo and pulled the old hard lines out. On the front there is junction and I just installed a line to loop it back to the junction we the hose at the top of the radiator.
Rear is super easy. Just remove the lines going to the servo and bent up a new ward line directly from the master to the hose.
I pulled the harness plug up and stuffed it under the tank after taping the plug up.
The servo being out of the loop made for a very firm lever. Rear doesn't feel a whole lot different.
Again if it's just a sensor fix it and keep it functional.
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Sounds good! I thought some parts had been removed, for example, the switch in the handlebar cover has had all the wires removed, there's a connector under the tank near the rh side panel that has a loop of wire joining the 2 ends together, theres a spare earth wire under the rh side panel, and the front brake sensor is missing, just got a length of cable stopping at the mudguard....
I need to see another bike thats complete! :dunno2:
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Mike, I'll take a couple of photos later and post them here. I'm no expert and I have no clue about wiring under the tank but I'll do my best for you. Just so you know, I have a spare front sensor test I bought as the PO told me mine was damaged when in fact mine was fine and the ABS brain was fried! I can let you have it for £35 which is what it cost me, if you're interested. Cheers, Al
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Sounds good! I thought some parts had been removed, for example, the switch in the handlebar cover has had all the wires removed, there's a connector under the tank near the rh side panel that has a loop of wire joining the 2 ends together, theres a spare earth wire under the rh side panel, and the front brake sensor is missing, just got a length of cable stopping at the mudguard....
I need to see another bike thats complete! :dunno2:
Hello,
Thanks Zipster for your kind words! (Again)
Let me know if you need a ABS brain - I have two which were removed from working ABS machines - Currently listed on eBay at £50 delivered but if this is what you need I am sure I could lowered the price for a forum member although they are quite heave so postage is a bit salty. I also have rear sensors for a late bike but it is still in the caliper as I don't want to damage them by removal but I sell the calipers complete for £20 delivered. I do have a load of solid brake lines which are waiting to be collected by the scrap man but it doesn't seem like they are the problem in your case?
Best regards,
David
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/e3y7egu5.jpg)
What it looks like under your butt! The combined modulator and brain unit is at the bottom.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/ny3aqy3u.jpg)
The blue diagnostic plug.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/aqymemu6.jpg)
Rear sensor and ABS ring
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/uhy7uja6.jpg)
Front sensor and ABS ring.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/anymeda5.jpg)
Dash lights - both ABS lights should flash together on start up. If they flash alternately, you either have a low voltage fault which should reset on a restart or a brain fault which won't! Once you've both wheels rolling above 4mph, you should hear / feel a clunk under the seat and the ABS lights will go out. If they don't then you have a fault. You can diagnose a fault with a simple 12v LED - one end in the centre hole of the diagnostic socket and the other end grounded on the frame and count any "offs" rather than "Ons" to give you your fault code. You can decide how to fix it from there!
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/ade8upub.jpg)
One LED diagnostic light - one wire to the centre hole in the diagnostic socket (remove the blue protector cap first) and the other end grounded on a bolt into the frame.
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Ok guys, many thanks!
I seem to recall riding the bike home, that the 2 warning lamps were flashing alternately all the way...35 miles
The front sensor has been bashed by the disc at some point, its damaged so maybe that was the fault? Luckily its the only part I've removed along with the warning lamp bulbs: looks like I'm going to have to remove the clock housing again! I can do it with the fairing in place, I just remove the upper bits and struggle :clap:
The RH side of the clocks/pod isn't lighting up and I've replaced all the green bulbs for standard ones, so might as well pul it apart and fix the lot!
Once I've rebuilt things I'll post some pictures of the modoified wiring.... :yow
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OK, I've got some pics, just need to find out how to upload them!
I've done the test, LED bulb live to centre plug, and neg to earth: the led lit, but wasn't as bright as when connected to a direct 12V live?
Things are looking better already! :clap:
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here we go:
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When the LED lit it would have started to flash. The number of times it flashed off is the number of your fault code. Mine was fault code 7 which is a ECU /brain problem. There is a list of what the codes are somewhere here in the lieberry. A steady LED means no faults but you should have one if the front sensor is removed.
The blue plug in the first photo is like the plug on the sensor I bought although I haven't looked under the tank on my machine.
The middle pic looks pretty similar to mine.
I've seen a plug with a loop like that on my bike and I don't know what it's for so I left it alone. I don't think it's to do with the ABS.
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I've seen a plug with a loop like that on my bike and I don't know what it's for so I left it alone. I don't think it's to do with the ABS.
It's a bypass for the sidestand switch.
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That would figure as my side stand has no effect on the bike running whether it's up or down. Does removing the loop fix that?
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Thats good: all the sidestand gubbins has been removed! The only thing that works is the starter motor cutout, I need to pull in the clutch to start the bike when in gear, which is fine for me.
So, do I need to A/ switch on the ignition then B/ connect a lamp to the centre wire & earth? will this make the lamp flash as stated?
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That would figure as my side stand has no effect on the bike running whether it's up or down. Does removing the loop fix that?
If you still have the female connector on the wire coming from the sidestand switch which also should be
found under the RHS battery cover, you can disconnect the loop and push these connectors together.
But keep the loop in the ducktail, the sidestand switch mechanism is a known trouble maker......
due to lack of maintance.
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Thats good: all the sidestand gubbins has been removed! ............., which is fine for me.
Have that in mind the day you're in a hurry /have a brain fade......all is OK untill you meet the first LH turn.
Been there, done that, ....in the time before safety switches and self retracting sidestands
first LH turn was on a main road............spent two months on hospital.
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Ha! I'm well used to the side stand on bikes, not had safety things on them for the first 30 years!
Anyway...I've just tried the test above, but with a multimeter instead of the LED: I got a solid 12.6V, which then went to about 1.5V, back to 12 the to about 3.5, back to 12 then about 5. Seems that the meter/voltage is showing something!
Its now almost midnight in Manchester, so I'll have another try in the morning: thanks again for all your input, I'll get it sorted with you guys helping me :2thumbup:
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So, do I need to A/ switch on the ignition then B/ connect a lamp to the centre wire & earth? will this make the lamp flash as stated?
About Reading the fault codes have a look at this: http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html (http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html)
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If you still have the female connector on the wire coming from the sidestand switch which also should be
found under the RHS battery cover, you can disconnect the loop and push these connectors together.
But keep the loop in the ducktail, the sidestand switch mechanism is a known trouble maker......
due to lack of maintance.
I'll take a look tomorrow - many thanks for the info. :-)
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The wires for the dash switch should be a black and brown, and the connector should be located under the front of the fuel tank.
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Ok, getting there!
Found the plug under the tank, so just need to solder new wires to the back of the switch (shouldn't matter which way round...I hope!) and connect up, I've refitted the battered front sensor, just going back and putting bike back together, brew times over :clap:
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I just tried to post a short vid of the flash test but the post and the vid have disappeared: can't I post vids straight into the site?
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu275/jacksdad_01/BMW%20K1100LT/th_ABSCheck.jpg) (http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu275/jacksdad_01/BMW%20K1100LT/ABSCheck.mp4)
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Oh good grief! Another update.....
I did the reset procedure as shown on one of the above links: now it flashes 8 times...or is it 9....
Think I need to replace the front sensor before I do anything else: I'm just fitting some fantastic LED spotlamps I bought from China....bright isn't the word! Will post more pics/vids when finished
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Mike,
Just an observation but shouldn't the bottom left red light in the tacho be flashing alternately with the one in the speedo? On a potential donor bike they alternate until the earth reset is performed. On my (Working) bike the flash together until the system check is complete.
I am sure some more wisdom will be along shortly to either refute my comment or help further?
Best regards,
David
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now it flashes 8 times...or is it 9....
It isn't the number of flashes you should count, but the pauses between the flashes.
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Hi again! I think the bulb in the rh side isn't working, as you say, it should flash....the illumination bulbs aren't working either, maybe got yet another fault :dunno2:
On the vid I've uploaded, does the led display 2 flashes or 3?
Now after placing a 20cm lead across the points described, its flashing 8 (or is it 9) times!
I'm getting more confused the more I do!
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On the LED test it will start off as a solid light and then it will flash the "offs" to indicate the fault code so be ready to count the dark moments rather than bright ones. Once it has flashed it's number of flashes, there will be a brief pause and it will do it again. The pause is signified by a longer bright light on the LED. It will continue to repeat this fault code as long as the ignition is on. You should also hear the relays clicking under the tank but the clicks will not be in time with the flashes. The fault codes from memory run from 1 to 7 so you shouldn't have an 8 or 9. Patience young padawan, the force is strong with this one ;-)
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If I remember right, on the LTs you can use the abs lights in the cluster to diagnose..
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Wrong answer, message deleted.
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Oh well, looks like I need to open up the clock housing again: the rh abs light isn't flashing, and the illumination bulbs aren't working, the bulbs are ok, so looks like a fault on the RH side of the housing!
Things are going from bad to more bad! Why wont th damn lights work now! It seems that every time i go near this bike it develops a new problem......
I'm planning on riding it right around the coast of the Uk to raise money for Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy (my son has it) but at this rate it won't make it down the street....
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If I remember right, on the LTs you can use the abs lights in the cluster to diagnose..
The Temp lamp flashes for motronic trouble code diagnosis only.
The ABS lights don't have any function for reading fault codes, other than just telling you that you have a fault.
JD, when I get back home later tonight, I'll look-up my pin-out layout of the cluster plug so you can take some volt-meter readings at the connector before you open up the cluster again...........unless you really want to open it up.
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Thanks Scott, that will be a great help! I'm getting very good at stripping the fairing upper, screen, covers, trims etc....but its not what I call fun! :hehehe
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JD, I found my file and updated it with some more details from the BMW schematics. I compared the euro version(for your bike) to the us version(like mine) and didn't see any major differences.
This file may be in the lieberry, in which case I'll update it there as well.
Drake also posted up a PDF with some of the variations of the cluster pinouts for the other various years/2v-4v, etc..... in this thread in the lieberry.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=889.0 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=889.0)
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Ok, I followed the links, did the test, but also did the reset :2thumbup:
Next, I took the clock housing apart to see why the RH ABS lamp wasn't flashing: I'd already replaced all the bulbs...but when doing so, the printed circuit sheet had flicked up and allowed the connecting tab to drop up behind itself, so to speak...so no connection! The illumination was the same, one tab folded underneath broke the circuit!
So...tried the bike today, both ABS ights flashing together, press the rewired dash switch and LH ABS lamp went out...oh happy days!
Went for a ride, after a few seconds/minute the pair of lamps went out: back home didi a further test with the Led, just constant light, no flashes :mbird
Does this mean that my ABS is now working? I think it does....please!
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You shouldn't press the switch...lights should go out when you start rolling.
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I just pressed the switch cos its there! why is it there at all if I shouldn't press it? :dunno2:
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On a working ABS2 bike, both lights will flash together on start up. Once you start the bike moving at approximately 4 mph you will hear / feel a clunk from under the seat and both lights will go out. This means ABS is working. If you have to press the button to stop the flashes then it's still not right. Sounds like you've made great headway though.
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If your test light shows no flashes then it sounds like you fixed it. Well done chum :-)
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If I just start the bike and ride off, the flashing lights do indeed stop: I'm thinking that its working now!
I stomped on the back brake as hard as I could, expecting to feel the rear end lock up, but it just wouldn't! The brake works perfectly, but i expected some sort of juddering on/off affect when I tried to lock it up, should it, or does it just release pressure as you slow down?
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congratulations jacksdad1963 you fixt it...
if the lights turn off when you start rolling its fixt... they would not turn off otherwise...
go to a clean dry parking lot... roll it up to about 30mph... hit the back brake hard... if it does not slide and if you can feel it kinda being notchy as you stop... its working... now do the same with the front...
then do it at 40mph... 50mph... 60mph... 70mph... 80mph... now you will know your stopping power with abs at these speeds... its an important part of proficient motobricking...
j o
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Job done! :-)
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Now leave that button alone. Nice work!
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I will! :2thumbup:
Thanks for all your help peeps, couldn't have done it without this site!