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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Zipster on February 01, 2014, 07:30:46 PM
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Ok so I know this topic has been done to death but I'm looking a little bit of help here from the UK folks.
My 1996 K1100LT SE is up for it's annual inspection (MOT test as it's known in the UK) but I have an ABS fault showing when I ride in that that lights continue to flash. The previous owner informed me that this was from a damaged front sensor.
If I arrive at the MOT centre and turn off the bike before entering, I could bluff them that the bike hasn't gone fast enough to turn off the diagnostic lights and hope that they didn't test it any further.
As an alternative, I could pull out the ABS relay and have no ABS lights showing for the test at all!!
The third option is to fix the ABS but I don't have the time at the moment, although I do have a front ABS sensor on order but I doubt if it will be fitted in time.
I'm inclined towards the second option as the safest bet to keeping the bike roadworthy (as per the regs) so where do I find the relay to pull and will the bike brake and respond as normal when it's pulled?
All help and advice greatly appreciated with many thanks :2thumbup:
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I'd just do the second option. You might even just be able to blow the ABS fuse and not need to pull anything.
I'm not too familiar on the ABS on these bikes, as mine does not have it. The sensor should be a relatively quick fix though.
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That's what I would do too, just disconnect it. If asked I'd point out that the ABS system was an option and there are plenty of motorcycles riding around without them. But of course, I'm not aware of the rules where you live.
The brain for the ABS is in the tail section behind the seat. Probably could disconnect the whole works there. Also, I recall reading here that the ABS connections under the tank are blue in color and could be disconnected there as well.
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To turn off the ABS warning lamps, it isn't enough to remove the relay.....which is the only blue relay in
the relay box.........that would only turn off the left warning lamp.
To turn off the RHS warning lamp, you need to disconnect the ABS ECU...the connector you find under
the LHS battery cover.
Some info about fault code readout and resetting ABS: http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html (http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html)
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Even though I don't have a problem with my ABS I've never had an issue come MOT time as the tester doesn't take the bike out and ride it. As you say, the lights flash anyway until its been ridden to 2 or 3 mph. Out of interest, are both lights flashing together or alternately?
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Thanks for the replies folks. Snowy, the lights flash alternately but continue to do so when ridden. Pressing the ABS switch stops the flash and leaves a steady red on the rhs for 4 - 5 minutes before the flashing returns. Previous owner told me that the front sensor had been mangled by an inexperienced mechanic replacing the sensor without the spacing shim hence the need for a new sensor. Having said that I haven't been able to read the diagnostics plug as I've no led or analogue multimeter.
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On my 95 the ECM was hosed from somebody leaving the main ground off the starter and it pulled ground back through the ABS.
I killed mine by pulling two relays. If you get the cover off the relay box and put your fingers on each relay while they are flashing you will find both relays.
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There's the ultra-cheap option, less than $0.0001 -- a slice of black electrical tape over the flashing light and ride without ABS. You wouldn't be the first.
BTW -- I had rear ABS problems several years ago and it turned out to be a break in the cable between modulator and sensor along the driveshaft, although the fault was showing sensor. Cut cable, butt-splice and good as new for over 6 years now.
Van
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Ok so I did a read out from the diagnostic plug and got a code 7 - ABS brain fault. Have managed to source a working ABS brain and should have it in a couple of days. Any hints, tips or advice for fitting the new unit would be greatly appreciated
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To detach the ABS ECU from the hydraulic unit you need a offset tri wing bit, see picture.
When reading the fault code...you did count the dips, and not the tops?
Do you got a healthy battery?........a weak battery can also produce a fault #7.
Have you tried a (or several) reset?
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Yes counted the dips. Battery is good and is on an optimiser. Tried a reset but no joy. May try a reset and then try reading for a fault code again.
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Reset, reset and reset again....sometimes it take many multiple times.
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Yeah did multiple resets - still showing code 7 fault!
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Ok MOT test was today. I pulled the blue ABS relay and disconnected the multiplug from the ABS brain so there were no ABS lights on the dash. Tester checked all and then told me that there was no ABS light on the dash so the PO must have disconnected the light and he stopped the test!! My old certificate is valid for a few days yet but I need to get the problem sorted. I've managed to source a complete brain and modulator from a working bike. Anyone any tips on swapping out the modulators, wiring the control box, bleeding the system etc? All help greatly appreciated.
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You could possibly try option 1. Or go to a different MOT center.
Another option would be to emulate the ABS light. I could write you a program for an Arduino that would make it look like your ABS worked.
I'm not too familiar on the ABS system, but there should be some posts on here.
Edit: http://www.bmbikes.org.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17227 (http://www.bmbikes.org.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17227)
Seems like the first option would work well. Shut it off, they are just looking for the fault light, and can't ride it.
http://www.motuk.com/Motorcycle%20MOT.asp (http://www.motuk.com/Motorcycle%20MOT.asp)
It seems the brake testing device, if used, only does one wheel at a time, which won't activate the ABS.
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Well I've taken out the troublesome ABS brain and modulator unit and that was a task in itself. Had to remove the motronic unit, the water tank, and the battery before I could manoeuvre the old unit out and disconnect the wiring. Refitting the new unit was pretty much a breeze and all is now in place and ready to change the brake fluid tomorrow. All being well I should gave working ABS tomorrow lunchtime. I powered the bike up as a check and got a steady led from the diagnostic plug indicating no fault codes. Wish me luck!!
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I have to say, bleeding the modulator wasn't the easiest job with a few contortions pulled and a few brake fluid spills but the job is done and the brake fluid changed and all air bled out. :clap:
Checked the diagnostoics plug and steady light shown (no faults). Did an ABS reset just to be safe! :2thumbup:
Fired up the bike and rode forward 20 feet and the ABS lights went out. Took her for a ride round the local streets. Stopped and started the engine and the bike behaved as it should. ABS - Fixed!! MOT test rebooked for tomorrow morning and I must say the brakes are a lot sharper than they were and the ABS is fully functional. :bmwsmile
Fair play to Ebay user david_s_walker who was as good as his word and supplied a fully functional unit for £50 with free postage compared to other users looking in excess of £130 and then a further £30 for postage. Throughly recommended to other UK Ebayers (don't know if the free postage would extend to international buyers) :2thumbup:
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I'm amazed that your inspectors would care about the ABS. Here in US state Maryland the inspection consisted of taking the bike to a shop where the fellow said basically --OK, it has two wheels, it runs, it stops, lights work, looks like a motorcycle to me...Passed! If ABS isn't required equipment on motorcycles over there and the brakes function, what's the justification for a fail if the ABS doesn't work?
I know it's a rhetorical question, but I don't get it.
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Hello,
Glad I could be of help to user "Zipster" I personally think that the ABS is a ticking time bomb so it is good to see one bought back to life - I have a 22k K1100LT with working ABS - Long may it continue!
As a "hobby" I break the K1100 bikes that have passed their sell by date and am happy to send parts anywhere in the world where shipping doesn't prove prohibitive!
Look me up on eBay (david_s_walker) or write to me for cheaper prices - david at fairseat dot com - I don't list all of my parts so if there is something you need then drop me a line and I will see if I can help
Thanking my new best friend "Zipster" for his recommendation
Best regards,
David
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Welcome David, feel free to check in on us.....you might have some good fixin' tips as well. :welcome
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Thanks - I have lurked on here since last June - Took a while to post!!
Anything I can do to help anyone out I will try my best. I am not a trader - actually work in the UK Print trade! Just bought a K1100RS once as I wanted the wheels and well it spiralled from there! My partner says it is good to have a hobby - She does the Postage & Packing!
Best regards,
David
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"Thanks - I have lurked on here since last June - Took a while to post!!
Anything I can do to help anyone out I will try my best. I am not a trader - actually work in the UK Print trade! Just bought a K1100RS once as I wanted the wheels and well it spiralled from there! My partner says it is good to have a hobby - She does the Postage & Packing!
Best regards,
David"
Nice,genuine guy to deal with:bought a pair of brake calipers from him & well pleased!
Kind regards: Duncan
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I'd be interested in seeing what the failures of the ABS units are internally, I could probably repair them. Has anyone looked into this? I've heard of a guy in Japan that does it.
EDIT: http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/index.html (http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/index.html)
Here's the guy that does it. 18000 Yen, about 200 dollars.
I probably couldn't do all that he can, as he has some pretty serious hardware.
If anyone has a dead ABS Brain, I'd be interested in taking a look at it.
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we will try to getts you some abs brains there wmax351... im confident you will figger it out... aints been stumped yet...
proposed ibmwr ad... if i getts any takers will have them shipped directly to you...
how does this sound to you...
Category: Brick K- Bikes (Longitudinal Multis): parts wanted
Wanted ~ Inoperable ABS Brains K75 K100 K1 K1100
greetings... working on a project to repair abs brains... so we needs inoperable abs brains to gunny pig this deal... no promises... no guarantees... i pay shipping one way... hope for the best...
See more at <http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5400.msg33972#msg33972>
Price: You Donate The ABS Brain I Pay Shipping One Way
Location: California
Contact: Johnny Owrstrich
E-mail: Johnny Owrstrich <johnny@motobrick.com>
Telephone: 317 432 6842
j o
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If ABS isn't required equipment on motorcycles over there and the brakes function, what's the justification for a fail if the ABS doesn't work?
Unfortunately if it's fitted to the bike, it must work. That's their rules and it applies to lights etc too. Thankfully my ABS now does work! Retest is at 10am tomorrow morning - I don't think there'll be any issues now.
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Last week I took my K75s for its MOT yearly test, my ABS has been flashing from the second day I bought the bike it last summer. The testing examiner refused to test it as " any warning light on the dash should extinguish as per manufactures specification" I asked what would happen if I removed the bulb the answer was the same. So I contacted another garage and he asked if it could be turned off ? "why yes the switch is on the dash" I answered . Okay bring it over, so I disconnected the relays and bingo one MOT.
I have found the problem the rear ABS sensor has died, I have cleaned it and the wheel ring and re set the gap on the sensor but it is dead.
I don't want to pay the £120 wanted for a new pattern part as I have seen loads on eBay for the oil heads at £20 to £30, but doubt they are the same as the older K bike sensors. Has anyone here in the UK got a rear wheel ABS sensor that is working and they would like to sell if so please could you let me know as I would like to return the bike to full spec.
Many thanks.
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I have a front sensor off a 1993 K1100LT but I think the sensors are different between front and back. Tried EBay or David Walker (posted above) ?
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Try Motorworks, James Sherlock or Motobins
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Hello,
I have rear ABS sensors....Trouble is they are in the rear calipers and I don't remove them for fear of destroying them.
The sensors front & rear are different although the only (AFAIK) difference is in the length of the cables! The front sensor changed on the K1100 in 1993 as well just to confuse matters with a different plug.
I have known a couple of cases where users have grafted the correct plug onto the sensor with success - The cable is (my best description) a bit like a TV aerial co-axial cable and a join is apparently possible but I have not tried it yet.
Not sure how helpful that is?
Best regards,
David
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I have known a couple of cases where users have grafted the correct plug onto the sensor with success - The cable is (my best description) a bit like a TV aerial co-axial cable and a join is apparently possible but I have not tried it yet.
As mentioned here earlier, I had an issue with the rear sensor and the cable, and as David mentioned above was able splice around the bad section. If I remember right, it's a cable with a braided shield. You have to take to keep the shield and conductor isolated, but splicing is easy enough if you can locate the break with a test light or multimeter. There was more than enough slack in the cable to cover the splice.
Van
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Hi guys, thanks for the heads up I contacted the two usual UK suppliers which is where the £120 figure came from :eek:
My multi meter test showed the code for the rear wheel sensor, so I did the usual stuff, cleaned the pick up wheel ring and gently cleaned the sensor and re- set the gap. I checked the sensor wire up to the under frame connector got fed up with it and went for a ride instead. When I got home I put the bike to bed and whilst tucking it in and kissing it good night noticed I had not secured the sensor wire into its swing arm clip firmly enough. The result was that it fell out and rubbed against the rear tyre which cut it through. Dooh!
So I never did find out if it was the sensor that went bad or the sensor wire that went AWOL, best solution is replace the whole sensor and wire up to the frame connector.
David (hi Dave) mentioned having a whole rear sensor, wire and calliper as a complete item and I can understand why he would not want to disconnect the sensor. I have just (this time) managed to get the bike MOTd and the tester commented on how good the brakes worked so do not want to disturb the calliper and bleed the system just yet. But let me know how much you would want for all of the above Dave.
Many Thanks
Mac.
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David (hi Dave) mentioned having a whole rear sensor, wire and calliper as a complete item and I can understand why he would not want to disconnect the sensor. I have just (this time) managed to get the bike MOTd and the tester commented on how good the brakes worked so do not want to disturb the calliper and bleed the system just yet. But let me know how much you would want for all of the above Dave.
Many Thanks
Mac.
Hello,
I have 4 at the moment complete calliper and sender all in good shape. I list them at £20 so drop the fees of I would post within the UK for £17.50. Anywhere else in the world for cost less £2.50. Send me an email or PM if you fancy one and I will sort the best one out. PayPal is best (Gift much appreciated of course!)
Oddly front callipers sell very quickly but very rare to shift a rear one. However at that price a good opportunity to strip & rebuild into a perfect example!
Best regards,
David
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Hi David I have sent you a PM.
Regards Mac
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Mac,
....and replied to. Happy to help
Best regards,
David