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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => Project Custom Motobricks => Topic started by: TS87KLT on November 12, 2013, 01:06:37 AM
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Thought I'd start a projekt thread for my '87 K100LT.
Right now it's not running, due to a bit of a hole in the cam cover. In reality it does run, but out of sympathy for the spinny bits I've resisted the urge to start it.
It's also nekkid, as much of the plastic was damaged. The pics here http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5217.msg32285#msg32285 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5217.msg32285#msg32285) are the launch point.
I've been harvesting ebay, and have replacements on the way for:
cam cover
fork seals
progressive fork springs
mid fairings
head lamp
tail lamp
mirrors
front turn signals
left bar switches
I ordered new cam cover gaskets from Max.
I'll try to be responsible and take pictures. It could happen...
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It lives!
Got the new cam cover on tonight. Filled it with oil and fired it up, and rode it up and down the driveway a few times.
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That's the best feeling. Riding or driving a project for the first time in a while or ever. Congrats.
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FWIW, the cam cover gaskets I ordered from Max came with a package of M&M's in the envelope. I am now a customer for life... :drool:
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I told myself I wasn't going to buy any more parts until I had the bike on the road, but... I found a 60a alternator for under $40 delivered, and I couldn't pass that up. I'm an amp whore, I know I'll want lights and 10 other power sucking accessories.
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i wish I had a 60w alternator... then I could make crock pot chili in my side bag with a 12v to 115v deverter...
j o
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I've got a dc/ac converter in my Landcruiser. Nothing like being able to run a blender on summer camping trips...
For the fellow members of the Cheap Bastard™ club, an accounting --
Scooter: $500
Cam cover: $30
Cam cover gaskets: $20
Skin parts: $215 (mid fairings, headlamp, tail lamp, turn signals, mirrors)
Progressive front springs: $45
Fork seals: $20
Alternator: $40
Box of assorted: $40 (bought because I spotted a left side switch set in the pics, but it had a bunch of other good stuff)
If my math works, that $910 to date. Throw in gas for the LC to go pick it up, and it's pretty much an even $1,000.
If I had been willing to spend more time gathering parts I probably could have knocked a $100 or more off that total, but this way I will have a functioning, safe and legal bike in a couple weeks, instead of a project that lingers into late spring or summer.
I will probably need to replace the rear shock before too long, but I'm still staggered by the cost of good ones. If I had given $5,000 for the bike I might feel different, but when a new shock costs more than I paid for the bike, well... :yikes:
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In unrelated related news, my new helmet arrived today. It's a Scorpion EXO-750, got it on closeout from Competition Accessories for $110 shipped. My old helmet was just that -- old. At least 15 years old, and not in the best of shape. Plus it never really fit right, it was a size larger than I really needed, but it was a good helmet (a Bell) for small money at the time.
This helmet fits perfect, and smells much better! And the liner is removable for washing, so it will stay sweet smelling. :2thumbup:
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Dug out all the parts and started an inventory of sorts to figure out what I have. I seem to have quite a lot... Once I get my bike of a piece, I'll offer up all the extra bits.
Also, a pic of my "new" cam cover.
I have three side project cars that with a little luck (and pushing the owners a little) will finish soon, then I'll be able to start on the bike.
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Two things --
Thing one -- A 60a alternator will not fit a K100.
Thing two -- what the flippity floppy f*ck is the deal with the air filter box?! The AFM is INSIDE it, and there is no way to unplug the AFM, so it's necessary to disassemble half the motorcycle to remove the air filter? Ah, there will be a special place in hölle for the ingenieur who created that little conundrum... :finger:
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You only have to remove the right lower fairing to change the filter. It slides in from that side. Its not necessary to remove any of the box to do it. Unless you drive dirt roads the filter is so over sized it can go 20k easy. So it will make it to major services (clutch spline lubes).
The K 1100's dont use a AFM. If you want to loose the box you could change it. Larry with Special K did a K100 frame with a K1200 motor, K1100 Paralever running K1100 FI. Pictures of how he modified the intake are here:
http://specialks.net/index.php?p=1_16_TBK12Special-The-Beast (http://specialks.net/index.php?p=1_16_TBK12Special-The-Beast)
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You only have to remove the right lower fairing to change the filter. It slides in from that side. Its not necessary to remove any of the box to do it. Unless you drive dirt roads the filter is so over sized it can go 20k easy. So it will make it to major services (clutch spline lubes).
K1100 94 up have 50 amp alternators. It is a bolt up and you would be hard pressed to need that on a Naked.
The K 1100's dont use a AFM. If you want to loose the box you could change it. Larry with Special K did a K100 frame with a K1200 motor, K1100 Paralever running K1100 FI. Pictures of how he modified the intake are here:
http://specialks.net/index.php?p=1_16_TBK12Special-The-Beast (http://specialks.net/index.php?p=1_16_TBK12Special-The-Beast)
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i gotts 66 thousand miles on my air filter... still revving on the redline and getting 40mpg...
j o
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Well, I must be a true brickhead then, because I couldn't see any way to get the filter out without getting the top off the filter box. :dunno
And in the current state of my bike, there are no fairings to remove...
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It does I promises. Pop the three clips. Long wide screw driver helps. Put your hands on either side of the box lift the top slightly with your thumbs and the filter will slide right out.
Pay attention to how it comes out. one side has a slight lip.
The fun is getting the latches fastened when you put the new one in. ;)
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I pride myself on being the kind of guy who can fix pretty much anything. On the other hand, I also try to be a realist, and not invest effort in projects with little hope of success. I think this meets the latter criteria...
Not the best picture, but that's the cooling fan motor. The brush holders have melted, and the winding is frozen solid, even after clamping the case in a vise and trying to twist the shaft with visegrips.
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You don't even want to know what a fan costs. One of the members here did a nice write up and made some adaptor brackets he was selling to use a common 6.5 in you can get at most parts stores. He may have a couple brackets left.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4812.0 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4812.0)
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I looked at the SPAL, but it only flows about 280 cfm max. Derale has a 400cfm 7" that looks like it will fit, and there's a Perma-cool that claims 1800 cfm. All those are in the range of $100 shipped. There are stockers on ebay for similar money or less, but they're used...
Edit: looks like the 6.5" SPAL is 330 CFM, so a bit better. Found a Maradyne that is 350 cfm for $75, the SPAL is $65. Choices, choices...
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Beemerboneyard has new Bosch fan motors.
http://www.beemerboneyard.com/kfanmtr0427.html (http://www.beemerboneyard.com/kfanmtr0427.html)
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A mysterious stranger has reached out from the interwebz and offered to solve my fan dilemma...
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I have a condition which is probably related to OCD. I call it "while I'm at it disease."
This condition manifests in various ways, but most commonly it occurs on projects.
For example, last summer I bought an $800 non-running Alfa Romeo 164. I scavenged a fuel pump off a BMW parts car and got it running. But it wasn't running great, and a little poking around revealed some air leaks behind the AFM, specifically the injector seals and the boots on the intake runners.
Picture one is more or less how the engine looked before I tore into it with the express purpose of fixing a few rubber bits.
Picture two is how it looks now, after several months of fiddling and the replacement of far too many parts.
And then there's the brickbike, as it sits. And the trail of tears that lead to its present state.
I think we can see where this is headed... :dunno
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Found some inexpensive LED strips on ebay, seller had a lot of positive feedback so I decided to try them.
I'm pretty happy with the result in the front light. I'm still thinking about how to mount one in the rear.
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I have not abandoned this projeKt, I swear...
Today, we will make a brick alternator go to 11. Or, 60 actually.
I have a penchant for amps. There's a whole story of why, but in simple terms, I lean toward older vehicles, and older vehicles tend to have underwhelming electrical systems. Nothing makes me do the OCD twitch like having the headlamps dim 10% when I turn on the heater fan.
While I won't be hanging a pair of 150 watt driving lights or a giant dc/ac converter on the bike, a 32 amp alternator seems the bare minimum.
While browsing ebay for a 50 amp unit from a later bike, I happened on the 60 amp alternator from the K1200. "Hey," says I, "60 is bigger than 50, and it's a 30% of the price being asked for the 50 -- I'll take it!" And I did. And, when it arrived, I quickly ascertained that I was a bonehead, and it didn't fit my K100. While it shares the same drive and the same 3-eared mount style, the bolt spacing on the mount is about 1/2" bigger than the K100 alternator.
I went back to looking for a deal on a 50 amp. The only one I found that was close to as cheap as the K1200 alternators was ugly, "sold as is, not tested, no guarantee of function." But, I noticed something -- it looked like the K1200 alternator, not like a bigger 32 amp alternator. "Hey," says I (I talk to myself a lot), "maybe the cases are common, and only the front half has different mount dimensions?" I decided for the price, I would take the gamble. Worst case, I would have a 50 amp alternator core for a rebuild.
When the 50 arrived, I set it next to the 60 and took a look. Even without measuring, I could see the back of the case was identical. On the 60 the front, or mounting end, was similar but looked slightly deeper.
So, time to dig in...
Here are the three alternators, from left to right 60a, 50a, 32a. The differences and similarities are obvious.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5JPyxxgGNaU/UsnoEVU2G_I/AAAAAAAAANY/MgQhth2QNsI/s720/DSCI0071.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mIZMHbynqVo/UsnoImCOgrI/AAAAAAAAANg/utUwaBF0Bog/s720/DSCI0073.JPG)
The two bigger alternators...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bMJGasmJwMA/UsnoNCaW4EI/AAAAAAAAANo/cxGffkgdYRo/s720/DSCI0074.JPG)
First, remove the drive pulley, or whatevah you call it. An impact gun will make short work of this, or you can carefully clamp the pulley in your vise and use a socket.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Syi_I2xpPEk/UsnoyrDqLuI/AAAAAAAAAOU/oIglDVPovQU/s720/DSCI0078.JPG)
Then, remove the screws that hold the front bearing in the case. I found them to be quite stuck, so I gave them a good rap or three with a flat punch and a BFH to break the corrosion you always get with steel screws in aluminum.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PNL80ptDv4w/UsnpDl6VDtI/AAAAAAAAAO8/iakwnhBNiD4/s720/DSCI0084.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nVWFpxINiTM/UsnrURIOWvI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/XmJEsRfUSc4/s720/DSCI0085.JPG)
Then, remove the three small screws holding the rear cover, unclip the cover and remove it.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JbuULA7rRzI/Usno1kt5GsI/AAAAAAAAAOc/fzSwbVBjNKg/s720/DSCI0079.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oML13Po5BZo/Usno5Wq41qI/AAAAAAAAAOk/lC37XlsvBHw/s720/DSCI0081.JPG)
Next, take out the two screws and remove the voltage regulator. This isn't strictly necessary, but it prevents accidentally breaking a brush, and makes it easier to remove the armature.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7C13uPDV51E/Usno82zQ-FI/AAAAAAAAAOs/dD9U5dMUhc0/s720/DSCI0082.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ActUMyyQIaE/UsnpAB93nQI/AAAAAAAAAO0/zFPKB73cI4s/s720/DSCI0083.JPG)
Now, take out the 4 bolts that hold the two halves of the case. The bolt that is next to the terminals is hard to get to with a socket, so I just used an end wrench. A wobble would probably get it too.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f8Tg85yc6ec/UsnpGyAcALI/AAAAAAAAAPE/AJ5BQVhuqhg/s720/DSCI0086.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DokmtrrTt3U/UsnpKdFMRaI/AAAAAAAAAPM/XufSSoNsbcw/s720/DSCI0087.JPG)
Now, use a screwdriver or similar to carefully prise the case halves apart. The armature will likely come out with the front half. On the 50a case, the armature then was easy to pull out of the front case. On the 60a, the bearing was a bit tighter, so I had to employ some percussive maintenance to separate the two.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l3KDVhhJjL4/UsnpN7c3FcI/AAAAAAAAAPU/oHLq_goiXPQ/s720/DSCI0088.JPG)
And presto, I've broken it!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_OlLkScoUyM/UsnoQOktfuI/AAAAAAAAANw/FTyFq945rVs/s720/DSCI0075.JPG)
Now, to that slight length difference noticed earlier, here's how it plays out when the 50 amp case front is placed on the 60 amp alternator.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nkYoarZ33X0/UsnpVNbKg5I/AAAAAAAAAPk/zjFOXW6i-b4/s720/DSCI0090.JPG)
While this looks like it could be a problem, it isn't. What you see exposed are the outer bands of the stator, which are marginally exposed anyway. The difference amounts to roughly 0.120 inch. Armed with my digital caliper, I made a quick run to the hardware store and found small washers, that in a stack of three made up almost exactly the needed dimension.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SVcao4NswV4/UsnpYbjDdzI/AAAAAAAAAPs/be0BU0Co4uU/s720/DSCI0091.JPG)
Assembly, as they say, is the reverse. I used some thread locker on the four case bolts to compensate for the small reduction in thread depth contact. I also cleaned the contact rings where the brushes ride with some 0000 steel wool and WD-40, and scuffed the rust off the outside of the armature and inside of the stator with some 600 grit paper. And finally I cleaned the 50a case front in the media blaster just because I could. Here's the final product...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-njZs3GMZ8Mk/UsnpcOsY-FI/AAAAAAAAAP0/gqT4WtxzaGs/s720/DSCI0092.JPG)
And here it is positioned in the bike, with the battery tray behind it to show the fit. A bit larger than the 32a, but still plenty of room.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ITCHsGSsn6Q/Usnpfl95IlI/AAAAAAAAAP8/c9Gb4_SG_h4/s720/DSCI0093.JPG)
I'll put new terminals on the leads when I get that far in reassembly. I will likely upsize the feed wire for the battery as well, just to avoid any problems with resistance in the older, smaller wire. It would be a shame to burn this thing down after doing all this work!
Bottom line -- I have a 60a alternator in my K100 for a total investment of about $80. Not bad, says I... :2thumbup:
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diggin it... keep us informed...
j o
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Holy crap that's awsome!
I feel like a bone head too.... A few years ago I did the same thing... bought a 1200 alternator and figured out it wouldn't fit.
I sold it BEFORE the right one showed up so I didn't get to see them side by side like you did.
I'm working on a skunkworks project right now with my LT (It's gonna blow Brick purists minds!) and more amps would definitely make me happy.
Thanks for the write up... I am now on the hunt for a 1200 alternator!
TG
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I've been told that the later K75 50a alternator front case has the exact same depth as the K1200 alternator, so no spacers/washers are needed.
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I finally carved out some time to work on the brick. I didn't take a lot of pics, but then it really looks pretty much like it did before I took it apart...
One of the changes I made was to swap to a newer version of the fuel injectors. The originals are version 1.1 of the high impedance Bosch injector. I installed version 1.3 injectors. The difference? The 1.1's have a single "pintle" hole that sprays fuel, the 1.3's have a 4 hole nozzle. The newer style vaporizes the fuel better, resulting in better mix and burn.
In the first pic below you see the "new" injector on the left, the original on the right. Then close up shots of the business ends.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6Lsv9rBO3Co/Utyi6nbUKRI/AAAAAAAAARY/l_C2Bu_SQKY/s576/000_0078.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Y2x7_hcGCO8/Utyi5Ekh_dI/AAAAAAAAARI/k5-s3kA5TJ4/s640/000_0076.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4LzOR6k3SFY/Utyi6lisPhI/AAAAAAAAARU/pHMssKsOoxc/s640/000_0077.JPG)
The 1.3 injectors I picked are very close in flow rate and impedance to the originals. They are part number 280 150 921, commonly spec'd for V6 Audis in the mid 1990's. The original is part number 280 150 210. I installed new o-rings and gave them a good cleaning before I popped them in.
I while I had the induction and injection apart, I replaced all the fuel lines, the FPR vacuum line, cleaned the AFM, and cleaned and lubed the throttles. I also replaced the perished crankcase vent hose.
I got the bike assembled far enough to fire it up and confirm I didn't miss anything important. I have the lights in the fairing, so next step is to bolt that up and start building the inside.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zxkzfYRdDOU/Utyi4mo-zBI/AAAAAAAAARE/n4LLVwDMFek/s800/000_0034.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-o94wgxkWbnk/Utyi4VQeryI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/XZ2nUt_Tx1c/s800/000_0035.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qzjQVC_dg7c/UtyirFXfsAI/AAAAAAAAAQw/pawneiYAb5U/s720/000_0033.JPG)
I've been pondering colors for the tank and tupperware. I am leaning toward silver, something close to the BMW car color Polaris. The angular lines of the bike are very similar to the 80's BMW cars, and Polaris is a great compliment to that styling.
For now, I just want to get it in one piece, make sure everything works, and ride it! :riding:
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Great write up on the alt swap. Thanks.
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Polaris is the color of my '85 and I am having a hard time deciding whether to change it to Karibic Blau or leave it when I repaint...
I bought some pieces I didn't have and a spare tank that are Karibic Blau...
I like 'em both, but there's just something about BMW's and Polaris Silver that keeps drawing me...
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Great writeup on the alt. Maybe pop a copy of that on my library writeup on a rebuild for the 50 amp alt.