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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: strip4 on November 02, 2013, 11:54:21 AM
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96 K1100LT 61K miles and been running fine. Yesterday the clutch slipped on hard acceleration. I have adjusted the clutch several months ago. I changed tranny oil last month and I overfilled it by an inch. I am getting oil out of the weep hole. Where should I start?
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greetings strip4...
welcome to motobrick.com...
i had a weeper for 50k miles... it would only slip 2up whacking it in 5th...
so... does it slip in all gears... just 5th... between 4th and 5th... whats the deal...
j o
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It slipped when putting it under load in 3rd 4th and 5th. I didnt push it too much after that. I came home and found I had overfilled the transmission using the shock adjustment tool. When I checked it with the correct gauge I found I was an inch high. It had over a quart in it. I drained that out and put in new of the correct amount. I notice a spot on the floor. Very dark and somewhat thick. I keep the engine oil real close to the center of the window. Lower is the norm. I rode it today for 20 miles and nothing out of the weep hole..to be continued...
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rodger that... so after adjusting the oil level what i would do is get out on a good road in 5th gear about 50mph... downshift to 4th and whack the throttle... does it slip... if so will it catch if you feather the throttle...
if its slipping on the 5th to 4th downshift... try 4th gear about 50mph... down shift to 3rd and whack the throttle... does it slip... if not i would feather the throttle in 5th and during 5th to 4th downshifts and not worry about it... if it slips when you whack it in third you are gonna need to do a clutch job with seals...
j o
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Unless the oil has a way of cleaning itself off of the friction plate I don't see this getting any better. I rode it yesterday and was down to 40 in fifth but I didnt want to hammer down. I am thinking causing it to slip can't do anything but glaze the surface of the friction plate. I don't know if I can do that job. It looks like a real bitch. I don't want to pay $1500 either to the dealer. This is a hell of a price to pay for me changing my own transmission oil. I am thinking that my shock adj tool is shorter than the K1oo.s by about an inch is what happened. I looked in my manual and the one in it has markings on the bottom. Mine isnt long enough to. Expensive mistake. $1500 repair on a $2000 machine. I think BMW went to a wet clutch in '99
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On a K75, swapping out a clutch is about a six hour job for an experienced mechanic.
61k miles is a good time to do a clutch spline lube and probably pop a new O-ring in too.
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From what I gathered. The previous owner..a best friend..said that he had lubed the input shaft when he had the transmission out to fix a spring on the shift lever. He just went into hospice so I am not bothering him with this..but..I think that I might have caused this by either overfilling the tranny by an INCH..or by cranking on it to 8500..but I doubt that. Either way..if there is oil on the clutch plates or just worn out from age..the clutch will need to be replaced. I just took it out and it will slip over 4K in 4th and 5th..and if I crank it hard over 5K in third..nothing in 1st or 2nd. I need a dependable ride though..so it looks like breaking loose with the change..That Honda st1100 is looking fine right now
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I'm pretty sure the proper gear oil level is below the front and rear transmission seals.
Filling it too high probably means the gear oil was resting against the transmission seals when the bike was parked and likely slipped through into your bell housing along the transmission input shaft. If that's the case then the gear oil probably mixed with whatever lube you had on the clutch splines and clutch friction disc.
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Either way, trans seals or engine o-ring/seal, oiled clutch friction disk, the transmission has to come out to correct.
It's really more intimidating than it is hard, so long as you have a place and some tools and mechanical aptitude. (or some good friends with them). You have access to unlimited help here, we have helped many with this task.
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Thanks Scott. So I am hearing that I could have caused this problem by overfilling..and probably did. I have only just bought this bike in July. Can the oil on the clutch plates go away with wear? Assuming the clutch was good to begin with. Or, will this problem just keep getting worse as time goes on? I certainly don't want to find out that it's slipping when I am riding the Dragon. I have seen pictures of this clutch job. It looks like half the bike is apart. I do have tools. good lights, a garage, and have some mechanical aptitude. More than some and much less than a Duck. Some things about this bike just make me pull out my hair. Like the radio compartment for starters..Stick a straight coat hanger down these three holes..geez..lol To this day however I have yet to ride a better handling, or smoother bike than this one. Thanks for you assurances
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First --when I first got my k75 in 2000 I burned through two friction disks in three years by riding the clutch lever. I had a Honda before that and was in the habit of 'feathering' the clutch. Finally one of the dealer's mechanics told me either I needed to change my riding style for a dry clutch or get a second job to pay for all the clutch jobs I was going to need. I did the former.
Second -- I have had oiled clutches n the past due to these two issues. In both cases it took quite a while for the symptoms of clutch slippage to appear:
1) improperly installed rear main seal. Minor damage to the seal during install allowed oil to creep into the bell housing eventually oiling clutch disk. Took quite a while for this to become noticeable and I rode it that way for quite another while.
2) improperly installed clutch pushrod seal. This time the culprit was gear oil which crept up the clutch pushrod eventually getting on the clutch disk. This took a couple years to get to the point where slippage was noticeable but when I pulled off the transmission gear oil had permeated the interior of the bell housing.
Re: the job -- believe me, if I can do this, so can you. There are a lot of resources these days, I.e. Chris Harris' YouTube videos, this site, ibmwr.org etc. One of the biggest challenges if finding a way to block up the bike so it is stable to work on. Once you get past that, it's largely a matter of unbolting things and bolting them back on and following instructions.
PM me if you need noob pointers -- I am still a noob and managed to get the job done.
Hope this helps...
Van
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Btw I just overfilled my transmission, too -- by a lot. I drained it all out before running the bike and refilled it to the correct level. I didn't have any clutch slippage when I test ran the bike yesterday. If the pushrod seal is on properly shouldn't it prevent gear oil seepage? It sounds like the OPs tranny wasn't overfilled long enough to cause significant seepage past a properly install seal.
My $0.02...
Van
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your clutch sounds oiled there strip4 and will need to be replaced asap...
there are lotts o clutch threads here at motobrick.com... they are in the lieberry...
trans innards (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4542.0)
trans leaking (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,2883.0.html)
kbike clutches (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=332.0)
and many more... (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?board=9.0)
last year i replaced every single clutch part including the clutch rod and spring with seals and o ring... it was $705 in parts with free shipping using PROMO!5 for 15% off at countryside (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=1680.0)...
j o
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Yeah, Ive been reading. It looks to be a rather daunting experience. I can wish to believe that it will hold for awhile. My logic tells
me that the fibrous clutch is absorbing that oil as we speak. I also feel that if the gear lube made it through the seal it helped
wash off some moly from the clutch spline. I don't know what parts I need to even get started with this job. My problem is also
that I don't trust many maintenance people. I am much slower but I will do it right the first time..or second. That's quite a price in parts
there Johnny.
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My BMW dealer charges $91 per hour and I am guessing this to be a 7 hour job plus parts. Hell thats over $100..Are there any recommendations for a good mechanic close to Daytona, Ormond, Palm coast?
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do you have a garage... if so... you can easily do it yourself... slow and methodical... you will get more help from the folks at motobrick.com than you can wish for... i even bet pallum would ride down from tennesee to help for a couple attempts at the seafood buffet and a little gas money...
j o
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hahahaha..I like the way you volunteer others. I am glad I found this site. I have friends all over the country from my old site at LC/C90
I have had visitors from as far away as Canada stop by for Bikeweek. My best friend that I bought this bike from is in TN. I wanted this bike badly as he was over ridden with cancer. Fought it for over two years. I have spent the last two Christmas's in TN. He is now in hospice. I expect no more Xmas's for him. I will probably be there next weekend. I will probably stay until his end. We shall see. I won't go to the funeral..screw that. I'd rather give him crap now.
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they get paid... just subtract the seafood buffets and the gas money... whats left goes on their 1099...
j o
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All I needed was a new friction disk. Everything else was fine. I even reused the clutch bolts the first time but be careful with that. The second time the hex head stripped one one of them and I had to drill it off. New bolts are recommended. You can reuse the washers. Make sure you torque those bolts to spec.
Someone told me that if the friction disk is new you can sand the oiled layer off with fine sandpaper and still be well within tolerance. Any comments on that?
Van
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If you do decide to get a new disk, they're about $100 delivered from Motobins, UK. Dealer $160.
The disk I removed and inspected from my k75 was well within spec yet was very smooth and shiny. The first time I removed it it had oil residue and I cleaned it with some heavy duty cleaner. It worked fine.
I eventually discovered it was a VW disc though so I replaced it last spring with OEM to alleviate the clutch adjustment problem I was having. The new clutch required a much gentler touch for the first 500 miles.
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BTW - Like others here suggested, the job is not hard at all. It just takes time. First time for me was two 8-hour days. This forum was a big help. Make sure you immobilize the front of the bike. Get a little dolly and some wood wedges to slide the transmission off and back on. I use a phillips screwdriver with tape wrapped around it to align the clutch disk.
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The disk I removed and inspected from my k75 was well within spec yet was very smooth and shiny. The first time I removed it it had oil residue and I cleaned it with some heavy duty cleaner. It worked fine.
I eventually discovered it was a VW disc though so I replaced it last spring with OEM to alleviate the clutch adjustment problem I was having. The new clutch required a much gentler touch for the first 500 miles.
Glad to hear that Tim cause that's exactly what I did this time. Cleaned the gear oil off the friction disk with Simply Green, sanded lightly, cleaned again, reassembled and it is very responsive...hopefully it will mellow out after a few hundred miles as well. The disk should go 25k miles -- can't be buying a new one every time it gets snot on it.
Van
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I see that a friction plate can be bought for $100. I am tempted to go with an oil resistant one. New bolts ans washers are an easy choice. seals front and back is a good idea. New O ring of course. I might retire a little more next summer so I want to be ready. With new seals and clutch I am ready to fly. Time to meet some people..
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So I am hearing that I could have caused this problem by overfilling..and probably did.
Personally I would say that NO you didn't cause it. It happened strictly because of age. I'll guarantee that the engine output shaft o-ring is dried out and leaking.
I've had to replace both of mine within the last 6 years. They were leaking oil, coming out of the weep hole.
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Cool to me not causing the problem lol This stupid german is turning into a love ride or some stupid bs
Ive been treated worse
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What is leaking out of the weep hole, motor oil or transmission oil?
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smells like transmission
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When I overfilled my LT this past year it weeped out the vent in the top of the tranny, nothing came out the drain hole in the bottom of the tranny. While your in there you may want to check the vent on the top, if it's plugged that is what caused you to blow oil out of your tranny seal. I had just replaced all of my seals prior to overfilling so mine were in excellent condition.
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All I can say is that the more I work on my brick and learn about it, the more attached to it I become. It's a labor of love -- get used to it :-)
Van
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I just want to say thanks to this group. My best friend bit it and I need to hit the road. Going to farm the work outl