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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Joeangi on May 22, 2011, 04:27:35 PM

Title: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Joeangi on May 22, 2011, 04:27:35 PM: Hi guys...and Gwen, I have not been posting much lately, but still try to look at the forums every week. Riding season is starting very slowly for me. Last year was probably my lowest mileage year ever...

Anyhow, working on the 1986 K100RS, and had a question about heated grips. I had the OEM heated grips installed and working fine with the taller "c" bars. This year, I decided to go back to the original low bars that the bike had when new. The original bar does have a hole in the middle for the wires to pass. When I went to install the bar end plug, I noticed that the Inside Diameter of the low bars is larger than the "c" bars and the "plug" would not be able to be tightened. Does BMW make a Larger "Plug" (thing that the bar end weight screw into with 2 "o" rings that tighten up, as you tighten the bar end weights) sorry, I do not know what BMW calls it. Or, should I just shim the inside of the bar? What is the easiest way to deal with this. For now, I just put the original foam grips on.....

Thanks for all the help.

Best of luck with the new site....I have it all bookmarked, as the 1986 K100RS will be primary this year, but the 1994 K1100RS still has a place in the garage as well. It has been an interesting year, I will try to upload some pics later.

Joe
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Lawrence on September 20, 2011, 11:27:38 PM: I hope this would not be considered a thread highjack, since the rider's original question went unanswered all these months (and I don't have a clue....)
Okay, Heated Grips. BMW makes 'em for all its bikes, and they charge BMW prices too. There's a lot of competition out there and I personally have had excellent experience with some aftermarket heated grips on bikes other than my 1985 K100RS. I definitely want to fit heated grips to this bike, so what should I know about them before I leap? Are BMW heated grips something special? Can I use bar-end weights with BMW heated grips? Must I drill the handlebar if I use BMW? I'm a bit put off my the simple Low-high-off control on BMW grips... guess I got spoiled by Oxford's digital controller with more options.
TIA
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on September 21, 2011, 03:12:05 PM: I've had good luck with the Symtec grip heaters. The wiring goes outside of the bars so you can use normal bar ends with them.

Last winter I bought a PWM (pulse width modulator switch) on Flebay and converted my OEM heated grips to variable on my K1100LT. You could wire one of those up to the high element on the Symtecs. That's what I'm planning to do to two of my bikes that already have Symtec grip heaters.

Symtec grips with an OEM Hi-Off-Lo switch: http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=328.0 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=328.0)

Variable heated grips using a PWM controller: http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=429.0 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=429.0)
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on September 21, 2011, 05:53:54 PM: And here's a nice cheap ($3.97 shipped) 8 amp 12V pulse width modulator for controlling variable heated grips. I plan to pull the guts out and mount them under the dash.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290602820824 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290602820824)
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on September 21, 2011, 06:22:04 PM: And here's what the bar ends and handlebars look like for running OEM heated grips with bar ends. (Note that K1100 models have the bar end mounts welded onto the ends of the handlebars at the factory so this isn't necessary.)

(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd470/Motobrick/heated_grips/bmw_oem_hg_bar_ends.jpg)
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Lawrence on September 21, 2011, 06:58:00 PM: Frankenduck, you are an encyclopedia!
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on September 21, 2011, 08:48:19 PM: Quote from: Lawrence on September 21, 2011, 06:58:00 PM
Frankenduck, you are an encyclopedia!

I'm a knowledge base. Encyclopedias are SO 20th century. ;D
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frodef on September 22, 2011, 06:32:04 AM: Quote from: frankenduck on September 21, 2011, 05:53:54 PM
And here's a nice cheap ($3.97 shipped) 8 amp 12V pulse width modulator for controlling variable heated grips. I plan to pull the guts out and mount them under the dash.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290602820824 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290602820824)

This looks very tempting. Anyone have any idea if those cheap chinese ebay heater elements are worthwhile at all (http://viewitem.eim.ebay.no/2-Motorcycle-Heated-Grip-Pads-for-Motorcycle-Handlebars/130522310911/item (http://viewitem.eim.ebay.no/2-Motorcycle-Heated-Grip-Pads-for-Motorcycle-Handlebars/130522310911/item)) or if the symtecs at ten times the price are worth it?
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Lawrence on November 10, 2011, 09:16:19 PM: I now have my symtec grip heaters in hand and I hope to install them this weekend. I recall that there was some comment made in this very forum of wiring them (or maybe another accessory?) to the starter relay nestled in that box in front of the batter on the K100 bikes. I searched in vain for that post. So, here's the question: what are the options, pros and cons and other insights into installing my grip heaters? Basically, I want to use the OEM switch on the handlebar cover, but otherwise I am open to all suggestions for a reliable and clean install. TIA
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on November 10, 2011, 09:35:24 PM: Aftermarket heated grips with an OEM switch (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=328.0)
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Lawrence on November 10, 2011, 09:57:46 PM: Man Frankenduck, What a database! It's almost enough to make a shade tree mechanic feel competent. Thanks a bunch.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Jumpin Jimmy B on November 12, 2011, 07:20:44 AM: I used the Symtecs, but paired it with an Eastern Beaver 5amp relay kit.

Installed just the other week.

I used the Drakes AND EB's instructions.

My bars, K1100RS are not drilled for heated grips, no holes,

The EB instructions said to use an epoxy based product over the elements and then push the grips on while this was wet
I used JB weld for this. I also used the Drakes tip and added an extra loop of heavy thread, he used fine gauge brass wire, to
help reinforce the wires on the throttle side as that of course moves and the connection of these wires to the heat pad can be a weak
point.
I also made a small cut out in the grip on the throttle side so that the wire has relief to move and does not rub on the housing.

Once the grip was on and the extra JP Weld wiped off, which I did bit by bit as I put on the grip. I then tied the wire back towards the
out side edge of the grip and waited over night for the epoxy to set & dry. This worked very very well and the end of the wire where it exits is now encased in the JP Weld and very well protected on both sides.
The next morning I routed the wires and put the round black HI/LO switch in the left knee panel, just about mid-tank. This position feels very natural for me to drop me left hand too when riding. Wired it all up and tested it worked. Then soldered and water proofed all the connections.

So how do they work? At HWY speeds, 32 degrees, heavy winter gloves, high setting, it feels like I'm holding onto a hot curling iron.
OK, it does not burn me, but I get the feeling if I did not have gloves on it might. I can wear summer gloves and use the low setting down to 45 degrees. My ride to work is about 18 miles.

This set up is wonderful and WTH did I wait so long to do it?

Many many eternal thanks to the Drake for all his write ups on stuff like this.

50 AMP alternator, I have on a GPS, the CATZ wicked orange lights, my Synergy jacket liner, and the grips. All seems fine, bike sits 8-10 hours at 32-35 degrees and starts right up.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on November 12, 2011, 11:03:47 AM: You put grips on with JB weld? I hope you never need to remove them.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Lawrence on November 12, 2011, 04:58:45 PM: J B Weld is a mite stronger than hairspray. Why would that be needed or even a good thing? Help me out here....
I am unsure about this wrapping of the wire(s) with brass or string where they emerge from the grip. There is movement of the throttle sleeve, which causes work hardening of the wires. If they are firmly tied to the sleeve where they exit, the work hardening will simply take place further along the run, where they flex. What am I missing here? ??? ??? ??? Would it not be more practical to use more shrink wrap at that point, and encourage the flexing to take place over a more lengthy run of the wire? I think notching the grip for the wire's exit has merit.
This is not nitpicking or theoretical musings -- I'm gonna install my heaters tomorrow, along with the Eastern Beaver relay kit for the headlight. (Gotta love that company's moniker ;D BTW, anyone ever seen a pix of Jim's wife?)
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on November 12, 2011, 06:36:11 PM: Wiring it to the grip like that keeps the wires from moving and reduces the fatigue where the leads are soldered to the heating element. The brass wire wrapped around the wires keeps the wire there from being subjected to repeated loading and any bending is taken up in the slack you leave in the wiring to accommodate the rotation of the throttle. This becomes more obvious when you do it.

Since the factory wiring already includes a fused switched power source specifically designed for heated grips I've never seen the need for the added expense and complexity of adding heated grip relay on a K bike. I suppose you might get another tenth or two volts but I doubt it would be materially noticeable at the grips.

But, as my write-up states, there are many ways to skin this cat.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Jumpin Jimmy B on November 13, 2011, 07:09:01 AM: On this.... "J B Weld is a mite stronger than hairspray. Why would that be needed or even a good thing? Help me out here...."

It was in EB's instructions which may be online. I thought about it awhile too, then just did it. I've had grips move around when pushing a bike around. I did not want any possibility of the grips moving on the heating elements or anything coming out of position. The JB Weld
does just that. Everything is PERMANENTLY positioned. Like Drake said, it's now major demo work if I gotta change a grip. I did think about that, and am prepared for it if and when needed. I figure the grips will last five years minimum.
I think it helps protect the heat elements and also assists in heat transfer. I may be FOS on this second part.

Tieing off the wire only provides relief to where the wires are soldered to the heat element. You are correct, the heat element still must
bend and move, but it's now away from this connection. The Drakes instructions use the hair spray method to apply the grips which works well and is removeable much more easily. So IMHO the tie off is essential if using this method to put on the grips. I used a permanent epoxy to apply the grips so maybe it was just an extra extra step to protect that area.

Since I did use the epoxy and cut a releif in end of the grip, that heting element wire is tied to the bar, then runs anout 1/4" before bending at a ninty degree angle into the relief and is completely sealed and held in place a this angle with that epxoy.

I started on a Friday night and did the grips so the JP Weld could set overnight. Then finished up Saturday morning with all
the wiring.

You are right about the shrink tube addition and EB does reccomend that, but man O man it is tight by the throttle side where the wires exit so I did not use it. The Symtec wire seems pretty robust to me and although the wire does need to move / bend when the throttlke moves, the wire wrap being epoxied in place does not touch / rub al all on the throttle housing. Also I don't have a big gap between the end of the grip and the housing. Looks stock except for the notch cut out of the grip and the wire coming out.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Jumpin Jimmy B on November 13, 2011, 07:21:22 AM: Carp.

I forgot to mention.

Like Drake says, many ways to skin the cat and there already is a stock fused connection for the heated grips.
I read a few horror stories on fires with stock grips AND I had my own excitement with a red hot shorted wire a couple
years ago from the temp gauge.
That's the ONLY reason I did not connect to the stock wiring harness.

I was 800 miles from home on a Sunday morning when the smoke got out. Bike fully packed & ready to go. Had to dump everything off, find the offending wire, cut it, tape it off from the main harness, then took a deep breath, tried it again, good to go, just no gauges, temp & fuel. All else works, so it was pack & run.
Got home, bought a used harness from Beemer Boneyard and spent three nights dissecting the wiring harness on my bike and splicing in the correct color/gauge from the donor harness. Solder & shrink tube everything, WTF is it is fat now? And putting it all back into position.

I'd like to mention here that the Drakes methods are pretty much bomb proof and will always work. He proves it daily as he lives it daily.

I was only sharing what I did, no slap on anyone and absolutely NONE taken on my part. Good questions on all of it.

You are gonna love the heated grips. I say again, why O' why did I wait so long to do this?
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: DRxBMW on November 13, 2011, 10:16:13 AM: Quote from: Lawrence on November 12, 2011, 04:58:45 PM
J B Weld is a mite stronger than hairspray. Why would that be needed or even a good thing? Help me out here....

I am unsure about this wrapping of the wire(s) with brass or string where they emerge from the grip. There is movement of the throttle sleeve, which causes work hardening of the wires.

If they are firmly tied to the sleeve where they exit, the work hardening will simply take place further along the run, where they flex. What am I missing here? ??? ??? ??? Would it not be more practical to use more shrink wrap at that point, and encourage the flexing to take place over a more lengthy run of the wire? I think notching the grip for the wire's exit has merit.

Red "hi temp " ATV for liner adhesion Vs JB Weld here. Works excellent, plus it's far easier to remove than JB worse come to worse.

I also notch the grip but use double shrink wrap tubing for strain relief. NO failures on the throttle side yet and I've run over 70K with this pair of Syntech's installed on my whip.

Heated grips are like sliced bread if you reside in cold temps, best money a true brickhead can ever spend for comfort. WTF buy pricey gloves for a product that is 10 times better in keeping your pinkies toasty.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on November 13, 2011, 10:31:28 AM: Quote from: Jumpin Jimmy B on November 13, 2011, 07:21:22 AM
I read a few horror stories on fires with stock grips

This is not caused by the power supply. It's caused by how BMW implements the low setting. Namely by running it through a resistive wire that generates heat which can melt the wire's insulation and cause a short. BTDT. Since Symtecs use different elements in the grips for the high and low settings this risk of fire is eliminated since there's no resistive wire in the circuitry.

On my RS and LT which have OEM heated grips I eliminated this risk by getting rid of the resistive wire and running the power through a pulse width modulator to make them variable.

FYI: The simplest way to avoid a potential fire with the OEM grip wiring is not to run them on the low setting, especially for extended periods.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: johnny on November 13, 2011, 11:08:18 AM: greetings joeangi...

welcome to motobrick.com...

i used clear vinyl tubing and barb connectors to flow hot coolant from the engine to both the pegs and the grips... i got the loop on a solenoid valve and relay triggered off the oem heated grip switch on the crash pad...

j o
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Jumpin Jimmy B on November 13, 2011, 12:02:59 PM: Now that there is truly trick stuff!
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: johnny on November 13, 2011, 12:09:56 PM: especially when you consider i have a led hydrometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrometer) piped in there...

j o
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: Lawrence on November 14, 2011, 07:56:30 PM: Last weekend I installed the grip heaters without any smoke escaping! Now that I've done that, I must confess I wouldn't use the symtec heaters and the OEM switch if I could do it over again. The set up just strikes me as flimsy and prone to failure. I was really shocked to see how fine the wires are. I wasn't able to strip the insulation off with my wiring tool even using the smallest hole! I've no idea what gauge wire the Symtec kit uses, but its too fine to inspire confidence.
I continue to think that Oxford Heaterz are the hot tip. I've installed 3 sets in the past. They are very well made, easy to install and use a digital controler with multi-settings.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on November 15, 2011, 12:11:07 AM: I've done the Symtecs on something like 8-10 K bikes and I'll freely admit that the wire gauge is not inspiring but, that said, it does, in the real world, work pretty well. And for $40....
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: DRxBMW on November 25, 2011, 06:36:06 PM: Quote from: frankenduck on November 15, 2011, 12:11:07 AM
I've done the Symtecs on something like 8-10 K bikes and I'll freely admit that the wire gauge is not inspiring but, that said, it does, in the real world, work pretty well. And for $40....

AMEN brother Duck ____________.

Fu*K, when your hands are freezing, the HIGH setting is ONLY one I ever switch anyway.

SynTech is a good bang for the buck.

Far superior to pricey Gerbing gloves for the money spent.
Title: Re: Heated Handgrip retrofit
Post by: frankenduck on November 25, 2011, 10:54:35 PM: Quote from: DRxBMW on November 25, 2011, 06:36:06 PM
Far superior to pricey Gerbing gloves for the money spent.
[/b]

I don't know about that. Found some near new Gerbings gloves on Craig's List last year for $25 from some dude whose wife was making him give up riding.

I also scored some Warm-n-Safe heated glove liners for $25 a while back. In foggy misty weather they do a pretty good job at keeping the backs of your hands warm as well.

But the Symtecs are more than adequate 97% of the time.