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MOTOBRICK MARKETPLACE => FS WTB WTT ~ Bikes ~ Parts ~ Gear => Topic started by: Freelancer on January 16, 2013, 05:34:05 AM
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While not technically a classic K, this ad for a k1200rs struck me as odd enough to post for comments.
http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/3549028893.html (http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/3549028893.html)
A new 1998 K1200rs with 9,200 miles and for $2k. :deal: :2thumbup: :popcorm :popcorm
Will be interesting to see if this gets yanked or is actually legit. What do you guys think?
Freelancer
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Looks good to me!
Not often that you see a bike with "very few millage"!
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Be sure to pay him ahead of time with a Western Union Moneygram.
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*update*
Called the guy up. He had a thick accent and the conversation(was like talking to Consuela from Family Guy) went somewhat as follows:
Me: You have a bike for sale?
Him(Never gave a name): Yes, where are you from?
Me: ?The houston area.
Him: Oh, I didn't recognize the area code.
Me:??? Yeah, I'm up near Magnolia. What problems or issues does the bike have?
Him:What do you mean?
Me: Can I ride the bike or does it need work?
Him: No, you can't ride, bike not running, needs battery and both oil changed.
Me:??..What condition is the bike in? Do you have photos?
Him: You not see photos?
Me: Just the one and it is washed out, you can't-
Him: I have photo in ad.
Me: Yes, but you can't see much.
Him: I have photos I can sen- You can come look. Where are you?
Me: I'm near Magnolia, about an hour away. Why are you selling the bike for less than half its value?
Him: I need the money, I need $2,000. You come to look today? People come to look tomorrow so if you want first try you can come look today.
Me: You said that you have other pictures.?? I would like to see before driving out.
Him: Yes, I can send to you right away.
Me: Great, while you are sending me the pictures, "Could you also please includ the VIN?".
Him: The numbers is in the ad.
Me: No, it's not.
Him: Yeah the vehicle number, its a 1998 BMW.
Me: Yes, its a 1998 but that is not the VIN or frame number. I'm looking for the number you use to register the bike.
Him: I told him to put number in ad.
Me: Can you send that with the pictures?
Him: Yes, I will send now.
Been 8 hours and no message.
I'm not saying that the guy is commiting a crime, just that this somewhat fits the pattern for how stolen bikes from other states are moved.
Also not saying stay away from this bike, just advising caution and a vin vs engine number check if one of you guys go for it.
Later,
Freelancer
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$2,000 is all he wants for the "very nice and sporty color" NEW 1998bBMW 1200cc? I wonder if the body style was not MC how much he would ask?
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Soooooooooooooooo Freelancer.
When you going to see it?
Take a couple of buddies and a PU truck.
Could be fun?
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I mean for $2k, I'd get a friend or two and go see it. That way you can get the VIN and if by some chance it is legit, maybe flip the bike.
Or if it does come up as stolen you can help a fellow K rider get his bike back.
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First question I always ask is if they have a clean title in their name.
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This one should be fun to watch. One of us should call on Friday and see if the guy has a different story.
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This one should be fun to watch. One of us should call on Friday and see if the guy has a different story.
Use a thick accent, ask him if he will take a Cashiers Check for $4,000 and then give you back $1,000 and the bike ... he gets more money for helping you get the check cashed. :loopy:
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Texted him today, asking for the pictures again.
Suprise suprise, he sent some clear pictures back and then called right after. A further suprise, he introduced himself as Alex. Then he again asked where I was and said that I need to come out and get the bike because he won't hold it.(Note:I've never asked him to hold the bike).
I said that was fine and asked if the bike had clean title. And the conersation went as follows:
Him: "Yes, bike has clean title."
Me: "Is the title a texas title and is the bike registered."
Him:"????What you mean??"
Me: "Is the bike currently registered in Texas? Is the title---"
Him: "No, the bike is not registered right now."
Me: "Why? Is there a problem with the bike?"
Him: "No, no problem. I buy bike and ended up not riding, so I didn't register."
Me: "Is the title in your name and is it a Texas Blue Title or is the Title from out of state? Does the bike have any liens against it?"
Him: "It is a good Texas Title. The previous owner signed it, then I signed it."
Me: "Did you ever register the bike in your name?"
Him: "No, I have title from when I buy and with his signature and mine. (Starts talking faster) Its no problem, you come buy it, register no problem."
Me: "If you signed and never registered then it will be a hassle to regist--"
Him: "You come look/buy soon, I won't hold bike. Other people come look tomorrow."
Me: (Extricating myself from the call and his attempts to pin me into driving out)I have to check with a friend who handles vehicle registry to see what I will have to do to or if I can register the bike. I will call after I find out."
Him:"Ok, you check then come look. I wont hold bike tho--." (Again, I've never asked for him to hold Bike.)
Me: "I gotta go back to work, I will try to call later. Ok."
Him: "OK"
Me:"Later."
Him: " 'Bye "
So, the issue.
In Texas, it is illegal to sell a vehicle that you never registered.
Some do, if they never signed under the seller, they just sell the vehicle for cash and act as if they are the previous owner(This is still illegal).
Once someone signs under the previous owner, the only ways to obtain a legitimate title for the bike is:
A)The signee registers the vehicle before selling
B)You go all the way back to the last owner under which the bike was legally registered and have him/her file for lost title. Thing is, that person can turn around and claim the bike if they are unscrupulous.
or
C)You store the bike with a friendly mechanic and he abuses the mechanics lien system for you.While this will provide you with a legitamate title(if the bike is not stolen, it is also, very illegal if you get caught.)
This is, also, how many people get stung by purchasing stolen goods. There are fake title scams all over the place and the, "I signed the title but never registered it" scam has been around as long as there have been paper titles.
Note, I'm not saying that that the seller is scammng anyone. He may be mostly legit and just to lazy to register the bike.
Imo, common sense says that there is some other issue involved in this case.
Now, I don't doubt the bike will sell to someone who will use it as a parts bike, heck I admit thinking about it for a second or two. But any way I look at this, its a no go.
This situation, imo, has too high of a potential to screw-up the karma and life of anyone who touches, gets near to or purchases this bike.
Fwiw, The pictures he sent are attatched below:
Later,
Freelancer
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I wonder if having the seller go to the DMV with the buyer could make a difference. I hate paper loose ends.
Looks like a nice bike though.
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That's a shame. Only judging buy what i can see in the pictures, with a little bit of clean-up that would've been a nice bike.
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I live in Katy, I could go look.
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I live in Katy, I could go look.
Hey OH,
I no longer wish to have anything to do with this bike, but feel free to look for yourself and/or others that might not mind the risk/title hassle involved.
Not trying to be rude here, ot is just that if I get the feeling that something will muddy my karma, I try to avoid it like the plague.
Thanks for the offer,
Freelancer
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I wouldn't touch that with the proverbial "ten foot pole".
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Plates are not from texas
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someone go look at it, get the vin number, and then "run to the bank to get the cash"
Stop by the local PD and have them run the vin number.
If its stolen you just got someone their bike back....
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Nomenclature:
Changing ownership of a vehicle is a title transfer.
Registration is the annual fees & taxes you pay to get your current tabs (a.k.a. tags) in order to legally operate your vehicle in your state of residence.
It is legal to transfer the title for a vehicle without registering it. For example if you're buying it for parts and/or don't intend to operate it on public roads.
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Nomenclature:
Changing ownership of a vehicle is a title transfer.
Registration is the annual fees & taxes you pay to get your current tabs (a.k.a. tags) in order to legally operate your vehicle in your state of residence.
It is legal to transfer the title for a vehicle without registering it. For example if you're buying it for parts and/or don't intend to operate it on public roads.
If it works that way in your state, thats great. Just doesn't work that way in many other states.
In Texas, the title transference is tied to registration of one form or another. You either register the vehicle which is a part of the title transfer process or you register that you are not registering the vehicle at that time.
Texas is to the point that you have to go register "that you are not registering" your vehicle. Failure to do so can be interpreted as a form of abandonment. City code enforcement teams in most Texas cities will actually go on to peoples property and peak in backyards or through garage windows. If they see an unregistered vehicle, you get fined and if you get 2 fines the third time they usually come tow it away. Now, I strongly disagree with this practice but I don't make the rules.
This state does not release/transfer a title on an unregistered vehicle for a private sale if the person selling it never registered the vehicle. This is because your initial registration kicks off the title transfer process.
Now, if the previous owner actually did his initial registration and then let it lapse, then you can go through a bunch of bureaucratic hassle and pay the associated fines for the vehicle not being properly registered. But, this is aside from the point that Texas, definitely, will not transfer a title that has been signed over to someone else without that person having registered/titling the vehicle under their name. Which is the situation here.
Later,
Freelancer
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In Texas you CAN get a title only. For example if you're not going to use the vehicle and not insuring it because you don't plan to operate it on public roads.
http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/title_vehicle.htm (http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/title_vehicle.htm)
And you pay an annual registration fee to have valid current plates so you cna legally operate it on public roads..
http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/registration/faq.htm (http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/registration/faq.htm)
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Texas is so much fun: when you transfer title (regardless of whether you're registering the bike or not) you have to pay what TDOT considers to be the book value of the bike. So I've got the 97K11LT that's in parts but rebuildable: I've got a signed-over title from the original owner in Arkansas but I'll be damned if I'll pay the sales tax to change title until that sucker is back up and running.
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Washington does that too. Their "values" are usually KBB dealer plus about 20-25%. :eek2:
I'm pretty sure the impetus for state legislatures doing this was the old practice of buyers presenting a bill of sale that was less than they actually paid and legislators wanting to rectify that.
In WA there's several ways around it:
a) Bring in a printout of the KBB dealer price from KBB's website - which is ALWAYS less than the state's supposed value.
b) Most people don't know about it so the state makes out like a bandit but in WA you can pay tax on what you actually paid if you submit the following form when transferring a title:
http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/registration/faq.htm (http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/registration/faq.htm)
I ALWAYS use that form when buying or selling because the state is only due tax on what was actually paid.
c) When I bought my K1 I brought in a receipt from Iron Horse BMW (dealer in Tucson.)
I just looked at the Texas DMV site and it looks like the only way to get around the Standard Presumptive Value is to buy at a dealer and pay tax on what you actually paid or take the vehicle to an appraiser.
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Duck:
In Texas, the flat rate for an appraisal is usually higher than the difference between the tax on book value and tax on the purchase price. They get you one way or another (and taking the parts bike to an appraiser would not be worth the effort at this point).
And I did find Washington state more flexible than Texas: the blue 93LT is registered there (since I still had my military status) and the office in Chelan took print-outs from Kelly as proof of value.
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The other nice thing about WA is that motorcycles are specifically excluded from mandatory liability insurance laws - which saves you a lot when you own numerous bikes. I only need to insure the bikes that I take out of state.
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In Texas you CAN get a title only. For example if you're not going to use the vehicle and not insuring it because you don't plan to operate it on public roads.
http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/title_vehicle.htm (http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/title_vehicle.htm)
And you pay an annual registration fee to have valid current plates so you cna legally operate it on public roads..
http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/registration/faq.htm (http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/registration/faq.htm)
Read those again, Duck. Nothing in them contradicts what I have said.
Texas highways are straight and boring but Texas laws have more twists and loopty loops than a roller coaster. You are inferring things based on the limited amount that you are reading. What you are not getting is that there are other laws and departmental policies used to fill in the gaps that are not on the website.
You say that you can get a title only. I have been saying the same thing but at the time you file for the "title only" you have to "register" the fact that you are declaring the vehicle non-operational.
Basically, you declare the vehicle as non-operational, file the forms and associated processing fees and eventually recieve a PNO(Non operating vehicle) certificate. (This is still a form of registration. Get it. :2thumbup:)
Admittedly, some people manage to end up with a vehicle title without registering or getting a non-operating vehicle certificate,. Such occurrances are bureaucratic flukes that can put said people in legal hot water.
As to the registration fees??? Where are you getting that I am arguing that you don't have to deal with registration. I've been saying all along that you have to declare your intentions on registering or non-operation at the time of that you bring in your title.
In other words, what the sites do not state is that when you take the title in you are asked for the transfer paper work(which is the title in many areas), show proof of insurance and then declare whether you are registering the vehicle for the road or registering as a non-operational vehicle.
There are many areas that I will gladly and quickly cede to your expertise, Duck.
This, however is not one. Pretty sure that my lifetime of experience in dealing with the registry offices down here gives a more accurate picture than your txdmv minimal info google results. Its sorta like if I tried to argue the West coast driver habits with you based off of what I had read somewhere as opposed to using first hand info.
Finally, I admit that I am finding it "difficult" to make the base point that you keep derailing any clearer.
Why derailing?
Because my point is and has been all along that it is illeagal for a vehicle owner to privately sell a vehicle that he/she recieved a signed title to, then signed themselves but never took to the registry office and filed.
Later,
Freelancer
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I don't think anybody stated it but, you can get a bonded title in Texas. I have also gotten a title for a car without registering it. It also was an out of state title. Normally you would have to have a state inspection done to verify vin# matches the title on out of state vehicles.