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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Opus on July 19, 2012, 09:59:39 AM
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Hi Everyone.
Need some input here. My control panel if going to @#$%! I am down to only the Speedometer, Tach, High Beam,& Clock working correctly as far as I know.
Everything else is ether not working or in a state of unknown (could be working or may be giving wrong info).
I have found 2 places that "SAY" they repair the 88 K100lt panels. Palo Alto & Overseas Speedo.
#1) Has anyone used them and what was the outcome? (Was everything repaired to you expectations? Anything they could not fix?)
#2) How was the turn around time? (Did it take days or weeks or months?)
#3) Pricing? (Was it Low, Fair, High, or OMG! :eek2:)
#4) Is there other Places/Options I may be able to take? ( Refurbed with core swap? Etc,Etc)
I have tried everthing I can find here and other BMW sites and forums.
This should be my last major issue that I have to fix as far as I know & I do want it done right.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Opus!
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Have you contacted Palo Alto? I believe I did a while back and was told they do not work on the Motometer clusters anymore. Maybe you got a different answer.
Tom
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@ Tom
Palo Alto is showing that they do on their web site. I have not contacted anyone yet.
I'm hoping for more options and advice from other members as to what they have done and what was the results.
I'm working with a limited budget right now so have to be sure to get the best I can with out over spending. :dunno
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I had Palo Alto take care of my trip meter knob on my boxer. They were very high on their prices and the counterman had an attitude. Acted like his s--t did not stink. Came across as if they were doing me a favor.
Bottom line though, they had the parts that were needed.
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Just talked to Palo Alto and Tom is right almost. They will no repair or replace any of the PCBs'. Only the gears and stuff.
@Lynn, yes they have an attitude but they do stink.
Called Overseas Speedometer and he was more open and gave good intel. Price is high, but trun aroung was under 3 weeks including shipping times. (But I have to pay for that too)
He said that if I could find a Gear indecator PCB he would install it but the ones he has are used parts. ( HEY FRANKENDUCK! STILL GOT THAT USED PCB? )
He also stated that they rebuild the Odometer & Trip Meter with new parts.
I also need to replace the cover as the plastic lens is cracked. If I get the PCB and ship it to him It is looking like around $400 +/- (thats with a New PCB)
Took a quick look at the Bandit site and it show a replacement unit for $798.29 to $864.65. :yow Now that will hurt my not so deep pockets.
Still open to suggestions gang...
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Sorry no gear indicator PCBs at the moment.
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I have often thought that maybe it was just me, that I rubbed the the guy the wrong way or something.
It is nice to know that maybe I was not the problem. I guess he just has an attitude with everyone. Can't be good for business though. Of course, look at how few places do this sort of work.
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I have repaired one of the pcbs on mine. Its probably a broken solder lead or trace. I can give yours a go if you want. Not sure how much will need done, but I can do it a hell of a lot cheaper than palo alto. pm me and we can figure something out.
What exactly is broken on it?
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I have often thought that maybe it was just me, that I rubbed the the guy the wrong way or something.
It is nice to know that maybe I was not the problem. I guess he just has an attitude with everyone. Can't be good for business though. Of course, look at how few places do this sort of work.
Palo Alto speedo/pod R&R company has pissed riders off before, sigh ____________. Outfit somewhere in NC/SC has an excellent reputation, suffering CRS currently, read forget the name.
dunno in reality terms, WHY NOT go with a TrailTech electronic pod instead ? micro digital VS archaic 90's instrumentation. I think one model of the TT even has a gear indicator.
I've never personally tore into a total pod R&R,other than duck's LED bulb conversion. DW Wayne seems quite knowledgeable.
FWIW, a cheap GPS will outfit your O brick with a speedo and much more. :bmwsmile :bmwsmile :bmwsmile
"ride HARD ________ life's short"
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I have often thought that maybe it was just me, that I rubbed the the guy the wrong way or something.
It is nice to know that maybe I was not the problem. I guess he just has an attitude with everyone. Can't be good for business though. Of course, look at how few places do this sort of work.
Palo Alto speedo/pod R&R company has pissed riders off before, sigh ____________. Outfit somewhere in NC/SC has an excellent reputation, suffering CRS currently, read forget the name.
dunno in reality terms, WHY NOT go with a TrailTech electronic pod instead ? micro digital VS archaic 90's instrumentation. I think one model of the TT even has a gear indicator.
I've never personally tore into a total pod R&R,other than duck's LED bulb conversion. DW Wayne seems quite knowledgeable.
FWIW, a cheap GPS will outfit your O brick with a speedo and much more. :bmwsmile :bmwsmile :bmwsmile
"ride HARD ________ life's short"
Idk about the aftermarket gauges. I don't like the lcd type. I like the nice, smooth needles. The Moto-Meter gauges are actually quite nice, although meant more for airplanes and cars.
From what it sounds like, there is not a whole lot of repair needed. Just the gear circuit board, and a few light bulbs. The Glass is fairly easy to replace. Someone posted instructions on here.
I did a bit more looking at the components for the gear position circuit board. About 5 bucks of components. All are readily available.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K75-K100-K1100-Gauge-Cluster-Instruments-Reconditioned-/180901167929?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1e8cc339&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K75-K100-K1100-Gauge-Cluster-Instruments-Reconditioned-/180901167929?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1e8cc339&vxp=mtr)
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Just talked to Palo Alto and Tom is right almost. They will no repair or replace any of the PCBs'. Only the gears and stuff.
@Lynn, yes they have an attitude but they do stink.
Called Overseas Speedometer and he was more open and gave good intel. Price is high, but trun aroung was under 3 weeks including shipping times. (But I have to pay for that too)
He said that if I could find a Gear indecator PCB he would install it but the ones he has are used parts. ( HEY FRANKENDUCK! STILL GOT THAT USED PCB? )
He also stated that they rebuild the Odometer & Trip Meter with new parts.
I also need to replace the cover as the plastic lens is cracked. If I get the PCB and ship it to him It is looking like around $400 +/- (thats with a New PCB)
Took a quick look at the Bandit site and it show a replacement unit for $798.29 to $864.65. :yow Now that will hurt my not so deep pockets.
Still open to suggestions gang...
That sounds about right. If memory serves, I was looking for a PCB at the time.
DRxBMW is also correct about someone on the right coast working on them too. I also can't remember the name either.
Tom
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Will a panel from a 93 K1100 work on a 88 K100?
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Will a panel from a 93 K1100 work on a 88 K100?
I don't think so. It appears that there are some different aspects. http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,362.0.html (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,362.0.html)
Although internal parts from the 100's panel will work when put into the new enclosure. And some of the internals of the later one will work with the earlier one.
You can set it up with a bicycle speedometer temporarily while the cluster is fixed.
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I did not think so.
I did see a 85 K100 panel. That is in the same range and has the same layout.
Also saw one for a 84-89 K100rs. But for for $599.00 and used I don't think so.
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I did not think so.
I did see a 85 K100 panel. That is in the same range and has the same layout.
Also saw one for a 84-89 K100rs. But for for $599.00 and used I don't think so.
I think the '85 will be fine. May have a slightly different fuel level setup.
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Looking at the pin out for a 85 the only odd pin is #8 pin (Brown/Black). It shows as a 2nd Fuel warning light. Pin #7 is also a fuel warning light(Brown/White).
On the 85 it shows 2 fuel warning lights.(?)
On the 86 to 91 panels it is listed #8 (Green/Yellow) as a ABS Warning relay. Mine does not have ABS. Pin #7 as the fuel warning light (White)
On mine it has nothing next to the far left light and the fuel warning light has a fuel pump next to it.
It may work.
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Then you also must swap the PCB`s for the fuel level, since it two different systems.
The old one using two thermistors, the new one a switch.
I`ll guess the problem with the one you got is just a minor problem in the switched circuit,
what doesn`t make sense is that the instruments is working.
What`s the problem with the GPI?
Inge K.
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@ Inge K.
The GPI is not showing the correct information. When in neutral the LCD shows 4Th. In 1st it shows 5Th, 2Nd & 3rd nothing, 4Th & 5Th show normal. When in neutral the neutral light does not come on.
I was told that the GPI PCB is bad and has to be replaced. That was okay up to the point where my my Odometer & Trip meter stopped working and my Speedometer has started acting up.
It has started to run up at idle to 40 to 50 mph the drop down to 0 again.
What still works is the Tach, Choke, Battery & Oil lights work. Temp light does not come on, but may be it does not need to. Nor does the Gas light, but I have not run it that low.
Oh someething new. The Trip meter reset knob just came out in my hand. (?)
I think that is all.
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Then you also must swap the PCB`s for the fuel level, since it two different systems.
The old one using two thermistors, the new one a switch.
I`ll guess the problem with the one you got is just a minor problem in the switched circuit,
what doesn`t make sense is that the instruments is working.
What`s the problem with the GPI?
Inge K.
When I was going through my speedo to look at the circuit for my trip computer, many of the PCB traces were very thin, giving several failure points.
If you open it, and post detailed pictures, I may be able to help remotely. (Tele-Medicine for speedometers.) Are you comfortable with a soldering iron on expensive things?
Your problem with the speedo sounds similar to mine when I toasted part of the speedo board with a shorted wire. I was able to fix it with a jumper wire.
Your GPI switch may be broken. http://ibmwr.org/ktech/trans-switch.shtml (http://ibmwr.org/ktech/trans-switch.shtml) Looks like the Yellow/White wire (or the internal part of the circuit in the cluster) is broken.
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@WMAX351
I had it apart when I had to replace some lights inside it. I did find part of the ribbon cable folded and that fixed an issue with a bad light.
I can take it off again and recheck the paths and ohm out the ribbon cables. I am sure that it is the GPI PCB is the problem but it is worth a look.
Can't do it tonight but will PM you when I do.
Opus!
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@WMAX351
I had it apart when I had to replace some lights inside it. I did find part of the ribbon cable folded and that fixed an issue with a bad light.
I can take it off again and recheck the paths and ohm out the ribbon cables. I am sure that it is the GPI PCB is the problem but it is worth a look.
Can't do it tonight but will PM you when I do.
Opus!
I have found that the cables fold around the contacts, and the lights squeeze in too far. I fixed that with a couple small rubber bands.
Check the circuit from the board all the way to the switch.
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Well going to pack it in for the night. I have to remove the windsheld to get at the back of the speedometer housing to take it loose and need daylight to do it.
Night all... :zzz:
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Okay a New Day!
Did find a GPI/PCB for a K100RS but no year given.
PN# 62111459238
Does anyone know if it would work on a 88 k100lt? ( I may need it )
Going to Pull the Speedo today and start a trace of wires & PCBs to see if I can find any problems there as suggested.
It is going to be 102 deg F with a Heat index of 115 today so will have to limit out of doors activities starting around noon.
Fun,Fun,Fun...
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Same GPI PCB for all years and models of classic K bikes.
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Thanks Frankenduck,
I just ordered it from fleabay, hope to get it in a few days.
I checked my wires and the switches and all tested good.
Pulled the GPI/PCB and did a trace of the board and did not find anything wrong. (No breaks or loose connections to any of the IC/Resistors/Caps)
So I ordered the PCB. (After checking here and other BMW Forums for Info)
Then I checked the the odometer & trip meter. Found some of the teeth missing on the gears. Will send it to Overseas for repair after I get the GPI/PCB replaced.
Looks like I'm down for 2 to 3 weeks gang.
Well I guess I could paint my muffler. :2thumbup:
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Okay, Replaced the PCB and got "NO JOY" on reconnection.
@DUCK,
I have found a used speedo but is is listed for K75 85-95.
It looks like it has ABS on it. Will it work on my 88 K100 w/o ABS?
I have checked the pin-outs and it looks ok.
I know that the Gear problem is else where, but it would fix my Counter/Trip meter problems.
Thanks
Toney
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Yes, in my experience you should be able to run an ABS cluster on a non-ABS bike.
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Cool, Thanks!!!
Hope this will save me a few bucks over having to ship mine off for repairs.
Thanks again. :2thumbup:
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Okay an update as to what I have done up to now.
Replaced the GPI PCB and that did not fix the problem.
I removed the panel and checked the connections and that was when my Trip counter reset knob popped out the bezel.
When I checked the end of the knob shaft it was broken. Removed the spring, washer & retaining clip from the insides and closed the panel.
I covered the hole for the knob and reinstalled the panel.
Today I decided to take a ride and now that Speedometer Needle is not working correctly.
Beginning to think I need to call a Exorcist!!
I think that the needle is rubbing the bezel face.
I have ordered a used/newer panel to replace this one. Frankenduck said that it "SHOULD" work on mine.
Now to retrace my PD steps and see what I missed for the GPI issue.
BTW Thanks to everyones help on this. I will be looking back here for hints and help.
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Then you also must swap the PCB`s for the fuel level, since it two different systems.
The old one using two thermistors, the new one a switch.
I`ll guess the problem with the one you got is just a minor problem in the switched circuit,
what doesn`t make sense is that the instruments is working.
What`s the problem with the GPI?
Inge K.
When I was going through my speedo to look at the circuit for my trip computer, many of the PCB traces were very thin, giving several failure points.
If you open it, and post detailed pictures, I may be able to help remotely. (Tele-Medicine for speedometers.) Are you comfortable with a soldering iron on expensive things?
Your problem with the speedo sounds similar to mine when I toasted part of the speedo board with a shorted wire. I was able to fix it with a jumper wire.
Your GPI switch may be broken. http://ibmwr.org/ktech/trans-switch.shtml (http://ibmwr.org/ktech/trans-switch.shtml) Looks like the Yellow/White wire (or the internal part of the circuit in the cluster) is broken.
@WMAX351
I when to the page and the wires are not matching what I see.
I have
Brown
Green/White
Yellow
White.
Posting pictures below.
Am I looking in the wrong place?
Thanks Opus.
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@ Inge K.
The GPI is not showing the correct information. When in neutral the LCD shows 4Th. In 1st it shows 5Th, 2Nd & 3rd nothing, 4Th & 5Th show normal. When in neutral the neutral light does not come on.
I was told that the GPI PCB is bad and has to be replaced. That was okay up to the point where my my Odometer & Trip meter stopped working and my Speedometer has started acting up.......
What you are describing there is exactly what I saw last weekend on Ducks k75 pod. As he fiddled with the connection on the backside of the pod it cleared up.
Could it be part of your male pins of the pod are not making good contact with the female contacts in the harness connector?
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@ Inge K.
The GPI is not showing the correct information. When in neutral the LCD shows 4Th. In 1st it shows 5Th, 2Nd & 3rd nothing, 4Th & 5Th show normal. When in neutral the neutral light does not come on.
I was told that the GPI PCB is bad and has to be replaced. That was okay up to the point where my my Odometer & Trip meter stopped working and my Speedometer has started acting up.......
What you are describing there is exactly what I saw last weekend on Ducks k75 pod. As he fiddled with the connection on the backside of the pod it cleared up.
Could it be part of your male pins of the pod are not making good contact with the female contacts in the harness connector?
I have taken the panel off a few time now and I have not seen anything, but will take a closer look at the female connections when I replace the old panel with the newer one.
I was trying to diagnose the wiring/switchs but I don't think the plug I'm testing is the right one.
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Then you also must swap the PCB`s for the fuel level, since it two different systems.
The old one using two thermistors, the new one a switch.
I`ll guess the problem with the one you got is just a minor problem in the switched circuit,
what doesn`t make sense is that the instruments is working.
What`s the problem with the GPI?
Inge K.
When I was going through my speedo to look at the circuit for my trip computer, many of the PCB traces were very thin, giving several failure points.
If you open it, and post detailed pictures, I may be able to help remotely. (Tele-Medicine for speedometers.) Are you comfortable with a soldering iron on expensive things?
Your problem with the speedo sounds similar to mine when I toasted part of the speedo board with a shorted wire. I was able to fix it with a jumper wire.
Your GPI switch may be broken. http://ibmwr.org/ktech/trans-switch.shtml (http://ibmwr.org/ktech/trans-switch.shtml) Looks like the Yellow/White wire (or the internal part of the circuit in the cluster) is broken.
@WMAX351
I when to the page and the wires are not matching what I see.
I have
Brown
Green/White
Yellow
White.
Posting pictures below.
Am I looking in the wrong place?
Thanks Opus.
That looks like the fuel tank connector.
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Okay then.
I should be able to check the GPI Switchs from the panel connectors. This also means I can recheck the ribbon cables for faults also.
It may not be the easy way, but it is a way.
See guys! All it takes is a few suggestions and a Baseball Bat and it will sink in... :hehehe
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Okay here we go again.
How do you fit a round peg into a square hole?
Old Panel Pix #1
New Panel Pix#2
It was sold to fit a K75 1985 to 95
Per Frankenduck it should fit. (I know Duck I did say "should")
Any ideas on what I should do next besides pushing it off a cliff?
Has anyone ran in to this and found a resolve?
Thanks
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So what's the difference? I can't blow both of them up to compare. Only one at a time in a pop-up window.
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Sorry about that Red. :embarass:
The old Panel has flat connector pins, the new one has round pins.
I have tried to plug the round into the square female connections but will not seat.
Now I'm stuck on what to do next, flatten the round pins or round out the square holes?
Or is there another way to make it work that my old brain has not seen yet?
I want to use the newer one, because the ribbon cable looks alot better condishion that the old one.
Any Ideas?
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Well, there is always the option of the whole harness with the matching female connector on it.................. :eek:
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Or I can take an awl and round out the opening to the female connectors.
It went on with no problems. I reconnected the old panel and it still works to, so no harm done.
Bur I will have to make a trip to the Hardware store for longer bolts to attach it to the mounting bracket.
The old ones are not long enough and it is getting late.
Will update again later on.
BTW: My GPI is still not working right. :hehehe
But I do know now that it is not the GPI/PCB!!!!!!!
Thanks everyone for your help up to now.
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BTW: My GPI is still not working right. :hehehe
But I do know now that it is not the GPI/PCB!!!!!!!
Well, the gpi switch has been known to fail, not often but it has happened.
You have to pull off the swing arm to get to it.
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I had much of what you describe on an 86 K75, 67k miles. Turned out it was several different things, some that were really easy to fix.
GPI very dim and no back light: I've got signal so it's not the switch. Learning to live with that one...
The odometer/trip log didn't advance, Speedo works: Removed the speedo assembly, replaced the "soft gears" with parts I got from Palo Alto.. $78 all up. Got here in a couple days...which is good for Hawaii. Happily counting miles now.
Speedo stopped working shortly after I had it back together. Took it apart again and found a spring... exactly like the one on the odometer reset knob... stuck between the back of faceplate and needle swing arm. The needle is happy again.
I changed the display backlighting to LED from the Duck when I had it apart. Cheap, easy.. but if they are not connected properly they will not work. Trust me, I know this..
Good hunting!
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Morning world!
So here we are again. Looks like I will keep the new(er) Panel. Just have to buy longer screws to mount it to the holder. (Hardware store time)
@Scott_
That is my next plan of attack. But going to hold off until I do my winter PM routine. I will be doing a full lube job on the bike then and I want to get some ride time in.
The GPI is not that high on the to do list as the Odometer/Trip Meter was. I can live with it for now. (Besides I have to rebuild my Toy Fund 1st.)
@ Kona K
Thanks for the suggestions & Info. With the new(er) panel most my problems are now fixed but the GPI problems. I can live with it until I can check the TGPI switch's when I do my Winter PM....
To Duck, Red and everone else that has helped me!
Thank You for your time and input. You are a great help to me.
I still have a lot to do the get this bike back to 100% (Cables/Paint/Wiring/etc)
But for now I want some ride time.
SO for now I declare the Speedo project closed! & Thanks again!!!!!!!