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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Taz on July 02, 2012, 04:27:03 AM
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I have an 89 K100RS with dead ABS. I would like to remove the abs system completely. Has anyone done this? Tips and tricks appreciated.
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Like how dead is it, the computers can be repaired and there are quite a few used modulators around in good condition.
Are the lights flashing on the instrument panel?
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I have an 89 K100RS with dead ABS. I would like to remove the abs system completely. Has anyone done this? Tips and tricks appreciated.
Why bother, the brakes will work just fine non ABS.
Simply remove the light bulbs in the pod if the blinKing drives you CRAZY.
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Or pull the blue relays in the relay box.
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Thanks all. I will remove all the hardware as it's about 11kg's worth and looks ugly sitting either side of the bike by the pillion footpegs.
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If you want to get rid of ALL of it then that will include the metal lines that run up to the front of the bike. Just how I've done it but I dropped took the front wheel off, then detached the frame and bellhousing bolts and rotated the frame up. But the was to put them in. If you don't care about them then you could alternately cut them where they bend up above the coils and just pull them out from the front and rear.
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I have an 89 K100RS with dead ABS. I would like to remove the abs system completely. Has anyone done this? Tips and tricks appreciated.
I have a '95 with perfectly working ABS and I'd like to remove it too. Besides the ugly, the extra weight and taking up half the tail storage... what does it do again?
Tom
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I've thought about removing mine as well, partly because I'm assuming the functioning components could fetch a good price on the used market.
Am I nuts for not wanting to keep it?
Will it likely save my life one day? :embarass:
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Maybe when you jump on the brakes hard and the front locks and as its going out from under you, it may just come to mind how much better that emergency stop could have been. In 6 years my ABS has only worked twice and both times I consider things would have been much worse without that extra brain doing some real quick thinking. The reaction times of the ABS are hundreds of times quicker than even the best riders or drivers.
Under ideal conditions the very besr riders can only be very marginally better than ABS about 10% of the time and when the surface is wet or slippery for whatever reason then ABS is so much better than anybody can be regardless of who they are.
Think very carefully before removing it as you may only need to use it twice in your life but without it the first time may just be your life.
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YMMV and I'm not recommending anyone remove their ABS. And, if you have a habit of engaging your ABS or locking up your non-ABS brakes, you should probably keep/get ABS.
In 21 years of riding K-bikes (and a Triumph Tiger which has much better brakes than a 2v), I've locked up my front wheel once, at low speed, going downhill, in loose gravel. I managed to modulate the brake and get stopped. I've ridden in rain countless times some of them commuting in traffic. I've done a track-day in the rain. I've ridden in snow at least twice (I don't recommend it). Once (riding in 6-8 inches of snow) I managed to not run over the rider who when down in front of me and get my bike stopped w/o dropping it. That was fun.
Quite honestly, I just don't see the need on a 2v K-bike. The brakes are fairly anemic to begin with. And, yes, I understand that ABS is more about road conditions than how large your rotors are or how many pistons your calipers have. But, it stands to reason that the more powerful the brakes the more easily they'll lock up.
Now, I could go out and lock-up my brakes, crash and die tomorrow. It could happen. But, the odds are pretty long.
"What, me worry",
Tom
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I tend to agree with motodude that the front brakes on the 2V Ks are somewhat anemic and, except for extreme circumstances, you'd be hard-pressed to lock up the front. And if you can't recover from a locked up rear then you should probably work on your riding skills. There's probably a marginal advantage to having ABS but I consider it a toss-up between the added weight and complexity vs. a simpler non-ABS K.
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All removed. Bike looks much better and components weighed 12kg. Thanks all.
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Did you keep the same front master cylinder? Do your brakes feel different now?
On the K75 I've read the MC's for ABS and non-ABS are different?
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I can third that the 2V brakes are on the weak side. But they still get the job done just fine.
I've only had a couple of hard stops, but it didn't feel anywhere near lock-up.
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But they still get the job done just fine.
I've only had a couple of hard stops, but it didn't feel anywhere near lock-up.
Try a quick stop 2-up. :yow
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But they still get the job done just fine.
I've only had a couple of hard stops, but it didn't feel anywhere near lock-up.
Try a quick stop 2-up. :yow
did that from a relatively slow 15 mph today and pulled a small stoppie ... that'll get the heart going. (k11rs, not 2v)
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I'm making the switch to non-ABS.
Can somebody explain or photograph the rear hose routing from the master cylinder to the caliper?
I'm try figure out if the hose travels above or below the swing arm, and how much hose flex to allow for shock compression. And what the fitting to the caliper looks like.
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Like this. There's a rubber bushing (right circle) that goes around where the left circle is and that sits in a bracket that goes into a circular notch on the inside of the wing arm. It goes from the master under and inside the swing arm.
(I've got this stuff the next time you're in Seattle.)
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With the rear on my 89 RS 2 valve I just unbolted the hose from the master to the modulator and connected that straight to the caliper. For the front I ordered the brake hose set up off a non abs model including the y pipe off ebay in the USA. Took a week to get it delivered to New Zealand. When they turned up they were braided hoses which was a bonus. Used the existing front master cylinder and braking performance is definitely improved. Not by a great amount but it is noticeable. All up cost was under 100 New Zealand pesos. So I'm happy.
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Thanks for the help, guys.
Taz - Is there enough play in your rear hose to accommodate the swing arm swinging and the shock compression over bumps? I thought about doing exactly what you did on the rear, but tolerances would have been too tight for my liking.
I'm going to try and route conventionally under the swing arm, as mentioned in Duck's post.
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The hose was plenty long enough and there are no issues regarding suspension travel. Mines a monolever tho. I'll post up some pics soon.
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I had my hoses done locally at ABS Brake and Hose (http://absbrakeandhose.com/) in Lacey, WA. The front hose was nothing special (30" of hose plus fittings) but the owner, Rand, spent a good hour+ with me custom fabricating the pipe and hose for the rear. Measure, bend, measure, bend, cut, crimp, measure, crimp, and he even cut a couple of fitting down on a lathe. The result has got to be nearly identical to the BMW parts, and I got out the door for half the BMW part price.
Don't ask me why I chose not to use SS braided hose. I just didn't see the advantage.
The rear hose ended up being 12" end to end, but the non-ABS BMW part number is supposed to be 14". Looking at mine, I've got think it's long enough.
It's nice to not have all the ABS hardware on the bike. I put it all in a bag and weighed it in at 20 pounds. Too bad the giant cable that went to the ABS brain in the cowl can't be removed.
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Too bad the giant cable that went to the ABS brain in the cowl can't be removed.
Why not?
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I couldn't see a clear place to disconnect it. The loom doesn't seem to be just ABS as far as I can see.
On another note... What's the difference between the non-ABS calipers and the ABS calipers?
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What else do you think is in there the ABS wiring clump?
Difference in the calipers is that the ABS calipers is that they have thread holes to mount the ABS sensors.
The master cylinders are different too. My assumption is that they probably have different/better seals to accommodate modulation of the brake pressure.
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What else do you think is in there the ABS wiring clump?
It seemed to me that the fat ABS extension was tied into the main wiring harness and did not disconnect easily anywhere under the tank. I'll look harder next time the tank is off. Have you removed the ABS wiring without touching the main harness?
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I just cut the wires going to the abs control unit and taped them off.
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Or you could swap in a non-ABS harness as a winter project.
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I removed the ABS on my rear wheel only. I removed the hose from the caliper coming from the ABS, and the hose from the rear wheel master cylinder going to the ABS. I run the hose from the master cylinder directly to the caliper, and took the hose normally going to the caliper from the ABS and put it in the place where the master cylinder hose went. Lets call it a closed loop back on to itself. It had no effect on the sensors and still takes a double thump on the brakes (front and rear) to put the ABS light indicator out.
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Digging up an old topic here. People who deleted the ABS - did you also remove the ABS rings from the wheels?
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I removed the sensors and the front ring. Can't remember why I left the rear ring.
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I replaced all three rotors with EBC floating units.
No regrets from removing the ABS.
Tom
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Nope.
Digging up an old topic here. People who deleted the ABS - did you also remove the ABS rings from the wheels?
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I can third that the 2V brakes are on the weak side. But they still get the job done just fine.
I've only had a couple of hard stops, but it didn't feel anywhere near lock-up.
I feel the need to chime in here. The point of ABS is to prevent lock up on less than ideal surfaces... oil spots, rain slick sewer lids and lane-dividing lines, sand, all the stuff that dumps you when you least expect it. And 2v front Brembos are plenty powerful to lock up the front in those conditions. Dry pavement is not when you need abs. That said, I never had them and the 1st generation units on bricks are bulky and buggy, Losing them is up to you. But they can be helpful.
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i removed "everything" wires, relays, controller, sensors, brake lines, rings and even the ABS decals. I had braided steel lines made at local hydraulic shop and have had no issues with brake system.
I live in an annual "safety" inspection state (VA) and didn't want to take chance on remote possibility that inspecting service-tech would notice ABS components but no functioning ABS system: inspection failure!
Granted it would be astronomical odds for inspector to notice but stranger things have happened.
I'm in the "never had 'em so don't miss 'em" group.
I do have ABS on my car, only time i've used them is in an empty parking lot doing practice panic stops............works as advertised.
My hope is to never be in a situation where i need them.
cheers
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Thanks guys - for the technical and safety comments. :2thumbup:
I am a "safety-first" rider. I've done so many miles on non-ABS bikes that I think my reactions are pretty well hard-wired not to panic-brake. And my other bikes are all non-ABS (especially the Husqvarna, which I lock up regularly on purpose).
I understand the "what-if" scenarios and risks of poor road conditions. But in the 10+ years that I rode an ABS-equipped R1100RT I never once used the ABS in real-world riding. I did do the "parking lot test" occasionally - just to see if it was working and to maintain the feel of where the lock-point was.
So... the ABS on my new-to-me K75s is currently not working. I will try to make it work first -via cleaning, adjustments, and reset. But if I can't get it going by myself, I'll remove it all. And I think new brake lines would be a good preventative measure at this point in the bike's life.
And that huge POS in the tail is the ABS Brain? Wow... I covet that storage space. The nasty little stickers are coming off either way. :yes
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Scud, thanks for the reminder. I have a cruise control that I want to install on my RT for touring. Drake's instructions say he put his in the tail cowl which makes for a really clean install, but I have the POS in there and don't know what to do with it.
If I may, I'd like to add a couple questions to this thread:
First, does anyone have an idea on what removing the ABS does to the resale value? Not that I'll be getting rid of this bike in the years I have left.
Has anyone moved the "brain" from the tail cowl to behind the battery under the seat. That is where the "brain" was on my 16v K100. I'd like to move it there rather than remove a working system. This bike is my touring mount, and touring can put me in unfamiliar situations where ABS might be a good idea.
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Thanks all. I will remove all the hardware as it's about 11kg's worth and looks ugly sitting either side of the bike by the pillion footpegs.
I'm surprised you think they are ugly. I always thought those modulators were totally cool looking and love the way it looks; I guess things like that are very subjective.
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25 pounds off a 500 pound bike is 2.5% of its total weight. While that might sound like a lot, the bike is still heavy enough that the weight savings wouldn't make a practical difference for most uses. But... if it's not working then it's just dead-weight, and that is morally wrong.
I think they look sort of cool too - especially in a "this is the first motorcycle in the world to have ABS" sort of way.
As for resale value, who knows? They're pretty affordable already - a real motorcycle for less than the cost of a new Vespa. But supposedly there is a collector interest in these old bricks. I just want to ride it.
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I think they look sort of cool too - especially in a "this is the first motorcycle in the world to have ABS" sort of way.
Yes! Back in the day, I thought it was really cool! Many people were surprised that a motorcycle had ABS at the time.
It still looks cool today, it has that "it was once high tech but now looks cool in a retro kinda way" look.
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It still looks cool today, it has that "it was once high tech but now looks cool in a retro kinda way" look.
Like the enormous and insanely heavy vacuum-tube AM radio I had in my 1955 Cadillac - it had automatic station search called the Wonderbar (which sounds German now that I think of it). It stopped working, but I never removed it; I hid a real stereo in the glovebox.
The ABS on these bikes is a point of historical interest, a true innovation. Maybe that's part of the reason there's a bit of collector interest.
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First, does anyone have an idea on what removing the ABS does to the resale value?
Well, here's a related question: how much would someone pay to get all the parts needed to upgrade a non-ABS motorcycle to ABS?
Given that I am merging two K75s bikes (see my project thread) it seems I may have the opportunity offer such a thing. From what I can tell the parts list would look something like this:
ABS Pumps (2)
ABS wheel-rings (2)
RH front brake rotor carrier (may as well sell the pair with rotors)
ABS sensors (2)
Front brake calipers (2)
Rear brake caliper
Footpeg plates (2)
ABS brain
Complete wiring harness
Various hydraulic lines (metal) and hoses (rubber)
Assorted brackets and mounting hardware
It's a fairly impressive list of stuff - and I probably missed something.
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Hi all, I purchased my first BMW a 1989 K100 RS about year ago (with ABS) and love it. A couple of months ago the ABS lights began flashing, I replaced the battery (which was old and wouldn't hold a charge) hoping this would sort the problem, but didn't. For a while, the ABS reset button would stop the lights flashing, now they flash all the time. Local garage (NZ) says $$$$$$ to replace ABS. I've tried the DIY reset via diagnostic plug/ground, but no luck. Guess the ABS is actually shot..no problem (I've read all the pros/cons of no ABS).
Finally, my question, how can I stop the ABS lights flashing, without removing the fuses for the rest of the dash?
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Well, before I finally just removed the whole works, a piece of black electrical tape over the bulb worked just fine for me!
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Cheers WayneDW...that's how I'm riding at the moment...it works , but it feels so wrong :nono
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The first page of this thread mentions removal of a relay, which I assume would then cut all power to the ABS system. Maybe you should look into that.
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Thanks Scud, if this is a simple job, I'm up for it. I've pretty limited mechanic know how, so it would need to be pretty simple. I do have a manual, but cant identify the actual relay I would have to remove. Cheers
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go here:
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,536.0.html
a treasure trove of information at your fingertips!
g'luck
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Thanks koapono , Ill se what I can do, cheers
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Hi,
I'm digging up this old thread again,
My ABS is not working on my K75 (Cafe racer setup), I'll try to fix it but if I can't I'd like to remove the whole system to save on weight and for the looks.
I'd like to put stainless steel braided lines too, it'll look perfect on my setup!
I do have a question for the front brake line: can I just install a brake line between the master cyclinder on the bars and the right front brake caliper (as on the picture)? I assume that the left brake caliper will work without problems thanks to the steel tube between the 2 calipers?
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. . . can I just install a brake line between the master cyclinder on the bars and the right front brake caliper (as on the picture)? I assume that the left brake caliper will work without problems thanks to the steel tube between the 2 calipers?
Yes. A hose is installed from the master cylinder to the right-side brake.
No. Don't assume everything will work without problems. Flush the system thoroughly then be certain the brake pistons work smoothly. That's a rough-looking pair of calipers you have there. :giggles
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Yes. A hose is installed from the master cylinder to the right-side brake.
No. Don't assume everything will work without problems. Flush the system thoroughly then be certain the brake pistons work smoothly. That's a rough-looking pair of calipers you have there. :giggles
Great! thanks for the info :) I think I'll order some custom made stainless steel braided brake lines then :)
Yeah of course, I meant after flushing the brakes with some brand new DOT4 fluid haha.
Yeah those calipers do not look brand new indeed, I think the bike went through many, many winter rides before I got it.
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I think the bike went through many, many winter rides before I got it.
That's why it is important to be certain that the pistons are working smoothly and retracting fully. If necessary, you will need to open the calipers and overhaul the piston seals and maybe the replace the pistons. There is a useful post about that subject complete with photos on this site.
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That's why it is important to be certain that the pistons are working smoothly and retracting fully. If necessary, you will need to open the calipers and overhaul the piston seals and maybe the replace the pistons. There is a useful post about that subject complete with photos on this site.
Oh okay I understand, I'll make sure to check the pistons.
Great! I'll try to find that topic!
I'm already so glad I found this thread about removing the ABS, doing it myself will only cost the price of the brake lines & dot4 fluid (if no work is needed on the calipers), so about $100 when a shop ask for $500 to do it.
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I can see that a few people talked about removing the control unit in the rear cowl after they removed the ABS, but never saw if anyone followed through on that. I have been looking trough Clymer BMW manual but am not seeing anything on what runs through that loom or is in that CU (other than vaugly saying it is part of the ABS). Can anyone let me know if they removed theirs - in the process of deleting the ABS on my '93 k75 as it wasn't working when I bought it.
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When I removed the ABS from my K100RS, I just unplugged the control box and coiled up the cable and connector and fastened it out of the way. Will be removing the wiring this winter as an off season project.
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Assuming you have ridden sense, without any issues, that answers the question of does it control anything other than the ABS.
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I deleted my K75s ABS (wasn't working when I got it). I did the same as Gryphon - just removed the control unit and hardware. I also removed the ABS relay so the ABS warning light wouldn't flash full-time. Have ridden many miles with those items removed. I don't think I'll bother removing all the wiring.
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For those asking what else is in the wiring loom going to the ABS...
In the K100LT I'm pulling apart now the only other thing is the feed to the rear lights and turn signals.
I'm building a custom at the moment and want a nice minimal look, so while the nostalgia of keeping the ABS was considered it's just so damn ugly, heavy, and takes up too much space.
If I was using it as an all-weather touring bike (it's original application) I would have kept it.
I haven't got to the other end that connects under the seat yet, hopefully that's not to much of a drama as I want anything not required removed. I'll have to dissect the rear lighting wires out of this loom.
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For those asking what else is in the wiring loom going to the ABS...
In the K100LT I'm pulling apart now the only other thing is the feed to the rear lights and turn signals.
I haven't got to the other end that connects under the seat yet, hopefully that's not to much of a drama as I want anything not required removed. I'll have to dissect the rear lighting wires out of this loom.
I have the main harness out of my K11RS right now for an ABS-ectomy. Once the covering is removed the ABS and tail wiring harnesses separate easily. A look at the wiring diagrams will confirm that removing the ABS circuitry will not affect other operations. The simplest (but not elegant) solution is to remove the two blue relays, then lop off and tape over the huge ABS umbilical and do likewise with the blue terminated leads for the sensors. There are a couple of places where power and grounds are spliced in that can be clipped close to the source. I removed the ABS relay and its wiring from the relay box and clipped the wires from the second ABS relay (for the indicator light) because it shares its relay base with a relay that needs to stay. When I am finished running in the larger gauge headlight harness from Eastern Beaver and the harness for my added front Motolights, I will recover the part under the tank with hi-temp wire loom insulation from Summit Racing. Wrapping it in electrical tape or plastic wire loom wrap is not going to stand the heat under the tank. My OEM wrap was brittle from the heat so I am going back with higher rated stuff.
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Here is the massive ABS umbilical cut loose from the harness.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Lenora/Reference/i-6F3Ffdn/0/c4424be5/L/IMG_0651-L.jpg)
Here is the main harness with the rest of the ABS circuitry removed. The now clean harness extension to the taillight area is shown in the upper part of the picture above the relay box.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Lenora/Reference/i-XpH4q35/0/a20db2ac/L/IMG_0654-L.jpg)
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Digging up an old thread, thought keeping the info where relevant would be good.
I'm deleting the abs from my 90 k100LT, does anyone know how to get the wheel ring off of the brake disc? I have the three little bolts out but I can't seem to get the ring off, don't want to pry too hard if that's not how it's meant to come off - I know, not that it's meant to come off. ;o)
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Have you tried heating up the ring?
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Have you tried heating up the ring?
No, not yet, that's my next plan of attack if/when I can find out that it is meant to come off the brake disc.
Can anyone confirm that the brake disc and ring are in fact two separate pieces?
Thanks folks!
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I can. You could, too.
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Ah, there we go, thank you. My search was coming up with a different sensor ring that didn't look like the one I had - made me second guess and think that my disc and ring were one piece.
Consider me schooled.
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I have a '95 with perfectly working ABS and I'd like to remove it too. Besides the ugly, the extra weight and taking up half the tail storage... what does it do again?
Tom
Not certain about the USA, but here in Australia, tampering with a vehicle’s brake system can create all sorts of legal issues, especially with insurance companies.
ABS serves a purpose, and who knows, one day might save your life.
Going against the better judgement of engineers who developed ABS is absurd and unwise.
Just my opinion....
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The decision to inspect motorcycles and which components to inspect on them is left up to the individual states; many states don't have inspection at all. Vehicles without ABS are still allowed on the road. That's how it works over here.
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As Bricks came with the option of ABS any problems with registration/RWC can be avoided by removing all the ABS modules, and any reference to ABS on the bike. QLD rego papers don't mention whether the bike is or isn't fitted with ABS and I believe most if not all of the other states are the same. ABS on bikes wasn't common before BMW started doing it. If fitted it must work, if fitted and it's not working it's not roadworthy.
Regards Martin.
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Vehicle inspectors are much more incompetent than we give them credit for. There are hundreds of things to check and thousands of different bikes, nobody can think of everything.
Recently I sold a Kawasaki Vulcan. The new owner broke the front brake lever just before the rego appointment. I said take it up there, they probably won't notice, and fix it later. He looked at me like I was a mad hatter. He said look at it, it sticks out like dogs balls. I said yep to you and me cause we know it now.
He went nah and yeah and nah and yeah. He took it up, it passed.