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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Pagman on January 26, 2012, 11:40:47 PM
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Other than showing off a name brand, is there really a big difference between inexpensive tires and costly ones? For example, Cheng Shin/ Shinko vs. Metzeler/ Avon, etc. Other than the notion of possible quick tread wear (always depending on how someone rides), what other problems could arise? I have some people telling me to spend money on the most expensive tires and others telling me to just get what I could afford. I would figure that once tires are manufactured, they must pass factory regulations and strict inspections. I highly doubt any tire will dangerously blow out unless there is improper installation or a factory recall (hence, Firetstone). Personally, I am not a fan of waisting money on name brands and look for the lower brand tire. Whatever the tire, I make sure my tires do not go bald, are rated correctly for speed, and are properly inflated. So before I regret spending more or less money, here I ask again... is there really a big difference??
Thanks,
Pagman~
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Generalized statement ... you can ask this question about anything .. a lot of people say "you get what you pay for" and a lot of times they are right ... but sometimes you pay for a pile of steaming poo. There are differences between tires in the same price ranges as well. While I have heard good things about Cheng Shin lately,I have heard horror stories as well. Same with Kenda ... up and coming companies ... I point at HJC ... once a budget helmet maker and now one of the more respected helmet producers out there. While all most all of my friends love Michelin PR3s, I think they are terrible. Cheaper tires usually are made of rubber compounds less advanced and less back up testing ... less traction, less wear, less water transfer, lower speed ratings and so on. Some are so hard they last for ever but slide around on dry pavement. Some so soft they last no time at all ... and still slide around.
It is not a question with a yes or no answer ... and tire threads are like oil threads (is synthetic really better than dino oil?) A lot of it is subjective. Even if you pick a few brands and models to compare, you can get all sorts of conflicting answers. Personally, I would not buy a budget tire because tires are pretty damn important on a motorcycle and I prefer some solid research and development under me (even tho I have bought the most expensive tires on the market and hated them). My life is worth the extra $100 bucks or so in my opinion.
As an example .. I bought some Tomahawk Manufactured motorcycle tires on a recommendation ... half the price of what I usually get, lasted half as long and handled like crap. Terrible experience and even tho I even know IBA riders that use these things, I won't touch them.
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I put a Cheng Shin on my K75RT once. (I was in Butte, MT and it was the only tire in stock that was the right size without having to wait a day or two for another tire.)
It rode fine but didn't last 3,000 miles. It was something like $60 plus another $25-30 to mount/balance it.
Compare that to buying a quality tire for $120 and I would've gotten 8-10k out of it and the cost per mile would've been less.
If you're looking for a good "bang for your buck" tire then take a look at Bridgestone S11 Spitfires.
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Generalized statement ... you can ask this question about anything .. a lot of people say "you get what you pay for" and a lot of times they are right ... but sometimes you pay for a pile of steaming poo. There are differences between tires in the same price ranges as well. While I have heard good things about Cheng Shin lately,I have heard horror stories as well. Same with Kenda ... up and coming companies ... I point at HJC ... once a budget helmet maker and now one of the more respected helmet producers out there. While all most all of my friends love Michelin PR3s, I think they are terrible. Cheaper tires usually are made of rubber compounds less advanced and less back up testing ... less traction, less wear, less water transfer, lower speed ratings and so on. Some are so hard they last for ever but slide around on dry pavement. Some so soft they last no time at all ... and still slide around.
* longevity as Drake noted. However, nothing lasts forever, trade off between mileage factor & handling. I aim for the middle.
* performance, simply stated they feel funky pushing them to the limit
For the record, I've spooned on just about every brand of tire ever made for the K bike weird sizing.
Fav's are the Michelin Macadam and Bridgestone BT 45.
Worst were the Cheng Shit and Dunlop.
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I asked my initial question "is there a difference" because I'm constantly hearing about people saying to me (or reading) that their lives are at risk so they don't buy cheaper tires. NO company will sell you a tire that will put your life at risk. With that being said, let's just go on assuming that the tire will not murder you! The only way I will be hesitant about buying a tire is if the company is not reputable. For example, if a new Hashi Tashi tire (made up name) has been in business for one year, then I might pass on buying it because they haven't experienced a wider range of complaints and problems to be tested or fixed. I'm sure a company like firestone will ensure they never have blow outs again as they did in the '90s (although ford recommended dangerously underinflating their tires). With that kind of experience, a tire company can test for themselves as well as for the market that will use its product.
Any brand tire might have a manufacturers issue where a step was overlooked and danger might lurk around the corner for the user. However, I don't know of any storys nor have I ever heard on the news that a tire was at fault for rider deaths. If anyone knows of such an article, please post a link for all of us to read.
The type of bike needs to be considered as well when choosing a tire. When I first bought my kawasaki vulcan a few years ago, I wanted to save money on buying tires since I just bought a new (used) motorcycle. I chose a tire I never heard of before called "Maxxis" for the front. I then put a kenda challenger on the back. These tires together lasted me 15,000 miles with occasional passengers. I now have dunlops that are going bald after 7 or 8 thousand miles, and I only ride with my girlfriend. Regarding the Maxxis, I eventually found out it is made by Cheng Shin. Perhaps a Cheng Shin will last on a cruiser, but not on a sport bike. I'm just assuming.
I have a Metzeler Perfect on my k, and it went from new to bald in almost no time. I'm still confident in buying cheaper tires, but I'm still interested in what others have to say and if there is anything i might not know.
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It's all down to personal choice and a compromise from what you want from a tyre. For me, I choose grip over longevity. I do about 12K miles a year on two bikes, a K1100RS and R1200GS Adventure. Both are "fun" bikes, by this I mean that I don't use them for commuting. So, usually warmer evening blasts and weekend longer distance riding. No motorways if they can be avoided. At this moment in time, both bikes are shod with Dunlop Roadsmarts, a sports touring tyre which has excellent handling characteristics for my style of riding and fantastic grip. On both bikes, the front outlasts the rear 2:1. The rears lasts about 5K miles but I know that they would last much longer if I could control my throttle hand! But the mileage is not as important as grip for me as I do like to push the limits a bit on the lean angles.
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While I agree that a cheap tire probably won't kill you, I do think there is generally a difference.
As a general rule: I think the quality control on cheaper tires is not the same. You would be more likely to suffer a defective sidewall, chunked knobbies, early cracking, etc. But that's a general rule.
I would ride a cheap tire with lots of good reviews before I would ride an expensive tire with poor reviews.
Some things that make a tire expensive don't really apply to all bikes/riders: higher speed rating, uber soft race compounds, etc. Paying for that is wasted money and has nothing to do with quality.
But, since my tires will likely last 3-4 years, I have no problem spending $40-50 more if I think it will provide better quality, even minor performance improvements, or just peace of mind. There are definitely some good, relatively inexpensive tires out there. But I think you need to research. Buying cheapos just to save $10 a year doesn't make sense to me.
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I understand what you are asking, but it is really hard to answer without a lot of data on the tires.
As I read the thread again and the responses, the one thing that kept coming to mind was the big companies that charge a lot for their tires have done a lot of research in the proper rubber compound and carcass design for motorcycle use. Rubber formulas are top secret in the tire world. The Cheng Shin handling poorly could be a lot of things, rubber compound being a major player. Number of plys, material used in the plys, how the plys are arranged ... while not the sole reason, a lot of the reason the more expensive tires cost more is to recover the costs of figuring all of that stuff out (and the giant glossy advertising). I know some of the cheap tires feel so hard that it would not surprise me if they are using car tire rubber compounds.
The bottom line is, if you use a cheaper tire and it handles good for you and lasts good for you, since there are regulations governing DOT approved tires, your call. But remember, even the big companies with refined and proven over time manufacturing processes have quality issues and tires unraveling on riders ... the risk is just not worth it to me.
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Can't let this thread go by without grumbling about the TWO expensive Metzeler Marathon rears that I bought in the past year -- both developed cracks after less than 3,000 miles.
I do believe that buying a more expensive tire buys R&D, quality control, and general know how. But I also have reason to suspect that there's something wrong at the Metzeler factory in Brazil these days.
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While I agree that a cheap tire probably won't kill you, I do think there is generally a difference.
As a general rule: I think the quality control on cheaper tires is not the same. You would be more likely to suffer a defective sidewall, chunked knobbies, early cracking, etc. But that's a general rule.
I would ride a cheap tire with lots of good reviews before I would ride an expensive tire with poor reviews.
Some things that make a tire expensive don't really apply to all bikes/riders: higher speed rating, uber soft race compounds, etc. Paying for that is wasted money and has nothing to do with quality.
But, since my tires will likely last 3-4 years, I have no problem spending $40-50 more if I think it will provide better quality, even minor performance improvements, or just peace of mind. There are definitely some good, relatively inexpensive tires out there. But I think you need to research. Buying cheapos just to save $10 a year doesn't make sense to me.
Cheaper tires might be stigmatized that way, but I doubt that's a general rule. However, I agree with you on reviewing tires. Nothing wrong with taking some time out to review what could be the best bang for your buck.
What you're saying about expensive tires sounds about right. You might pay more for a tire based on characteristics that are not really needed for your useage. Seriously, why would the average rider need to spend so much on a tire like avon? God forbid the avon rider gets a lump in his tire. That's money well wasted. That happened to a continental tire on one of my other bikes which still had an entire life left to it and I had to replace it.
If you're going to spend up to $50 extra for mental satisfaction, remember that is a lot out of your pocket simply for reassurance. Regarding cheapos, I don't mind saving that extra 10 bucks on tires because either way, that is not much of a price difference between two brands. The tire that is $10 more cannot be that much more superior than the one that is $10 less. Just my two cents.
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My experience over two years riding an '88 K75S (in miles). The Shinkos are about half the price of the Metlers, and maybe 60% the price of the Bridestones (as I recall). I'm no expert, but I couldn't tell any difference in riding.
Bridgestone Battleax
Rear: 4,944
Front: 5,844
Metler Lazertec
Rear: 3,695
Front: 4184
Shinko Tour Master 220
Rear: 5,117
Front: 3,827 and climbing and still looking good
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I have Shinkos on front and rear, rear has probably over 8k on it by now and still has tread. Front...I have no idea how many miles ... It's probably at least 2 Shinko rears old by now...stopped counting.
Having said that, I am a utility rider who does +10k annually, 95% of it on slab, so I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a performance perspective between a $90 Shinko and a $150 Metzeler. All I know is the Shinkos gt me from A to B and back and when I need new ones, I can afford it.
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+1 on Bridgestone Spitfires. Got mine 2 years ago, $60 front & $80 rear, always had Metzlers before and these are as good or better. And I feel better with a brand name when things get dicey.
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When I bought my 75 it came shod with Cheng Shin CS HI-MAX tyres. Both were in good condition with plenty of tread (rear was maybe 40% worn, front 60%) - by all accounts they had over 4,000miles on them.
I would have continued using them after swapping the rear wheel if it was the same size. But it wasn't, so I got a part-worn Pirelli MT90 for the rear, and a part-worn Bridgestone BT020f for the front.
Comparing these to the CS is like comparing apples and giraffes...... The mismatched radials totally transformed the ride and handling in a positive way.
While there was nothing fundamentally 'wrong' with the CS, there was nothing astoundingly more than 'right' about them either.
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More grip vs longer life tend to be mutually exclusive so tyres that manage to improve on both tend to be more complex (e.g. multi-compound or just smarter compound) and hence cost more.
I've put RS wheels on my LT and have settled on Michelin Pilot Road 3. Can't recall the last slide, even in the wet, so they're either great tyres or I'm slowing down!
Cheers
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I replaced a set of Bridgestones with Shinko 230s on my K75RT, about half the price of the unfortunately NLA-for-the-K75 BT-45s. The front took 10g and the rear a whopping 60g to balance so I was a bit apprehensive. That said, the last 6k or so I have been incredibly impressed. They roll into corners like the old Macadams(with no cupping), handle great in rain and dry alike, and are just quiet, predictable performers. Wear has been minimal to say the least.
I'm sold on them - when I do replace it will be with another set.
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If it helps, the cheapest name brand tire I could find for my rear was a Dunlop D404 for $93 (installation not included). It's pretty much bald now and with around 5k miles.
Unfortunately I put up with a bad shock for much of the season and it would bottom out when two up and the tire would contact the one thing that holds the fender liner in, which I've suspected helped to wear out the tire. I'm going to have my shock rebuilt and another D404 put on this spring and see how things go again. From its reviews I was hoping it would last 8-10k
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I like the discussion going on here.
Would be curious to hear feedback on whether the tire selection would change based on whether you ride a K75 vs. K100/1100 as I am due new ones this year. My riding style is non-aggressive tarmac based touring.
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I think the first thing to do to make it really useful would be to determine some kind of standard for when a tire needs to be replaced and what constitutes 'bald'. Otherwise, the number of miles a rider gets out of a tire is arbitrary since everyone has a different definition of in 'need of replacing'.
I can still see tread on my rear tire, but I'm sure some people would have replaced already.
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I have over 10k on the front and rear spitfires. not crazy about them...good wearing but we have lots of rain grooves on the freeways here in Nevada and they have a tendency to wiggle. they are fine on smooth highway. will be replacing them in the next few days with metzler laser tec front and rear. rear is just about worn out now...almost bald in the center but front is ridable for a while. just like the idea of replacing both at once. mine is an 85 k100rs with about 62k on now.
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Tires I've used in the last three years:
Michelin Pilot Activ (R) - Like it quite a bit. On bike now.
Metzler Lasertec (F) - No problems. On bike now.
Avon Roadrider (R) - Good tire, good mileage
Shinko Tourmaster (F+R) - Rear wore quickly. Unremarkable handling but not bad.
Bridgestone SII (R) - Long lasting.
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I think the first thing to do to make it really useful would be to determine some kind of standard for when a tire needs to be replaced and what constitutes 'bald'.
We have a legal definition of 'bald' here...
Basically, for a bike you need a tread depth of at least 1 mm across three-quarters of the breadth of the tread and in a continuous band around the entire circumference. (1.6mm for a car).
Personally, it would depend on the type of tyre as to how close to that 1mm I would go - the Mitas I have fitted at the moment I would probably chuck before it got anywhere near, but a pure 'street' tyre I would happily run a lot closer. For me, it would also depend on the profile of what's left - if it's gone very squared off then I'd be looking for an excuse to replace it.
New tread depth varies a lot though - the Mitas had something like 14 or 15mm compared to the 4 or 5mm of some others...
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I just came across this post. Good stuff.
On my VFR and my Tiger 1050 I went with Continentals. Had really good ride and decent life out of them.
I'm on a more restricted budget now and am looking at the Duro HF918 for my K100.
144 for the set from American Moto Tire.
Anyone tried these?
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Something you get with more expensive tires...
...more, bigger ads in magazines, lots of banners, tech reps, and free tires at races, more margin at the stealership...
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On both of my LT's I'm running a mixed set.
Michelin PR2's front and Avon AV46 rear. I get good mileage(almost equal) between both before changing, close to 10K or a little more.
I've been running this combo for 4-5 years now.
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im on a restricted budget... im looking at a set of car tiors... costs less... lasts longer... protects 3 spoke wheels from bending... all pros... no cons...
i know some motoboxer riders who switched to shinkos a few years ago... they love them... say they handle good and last forever...
remember yokohama moto tiors... they were the go to racing tior worldwide...shinko bought out the yokohama moto tior division after a fire at the yokohama plant in the mid 90s...
if there was a proper fitment for my rs 3 spoke bent wheels i would give them a go...
j o
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On both of my LT's I'm running a mixed set.
Michelin PR2's front and Avon AV46 rear. I get good mileage(almost equal) between both before changing, close to 10K or a little more.
That I don't get. I'll be on my third Shinko rear at over 8k soon and the front still looks not even half worn.
I think Shinko is a pretty hard tire, built maybe for slab wear rather than performance. Is there a correlation between hardness and 'stickiness', I.e. performance on curves, twisties or track? All I know is I get a lot of miles out of these Shinkos. I have Metzlers on the red k75 and the rear is worn flat down the center. That didn't happen with the Shinko.
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I'm on a more restricted budget now and am looking at the Duro HF918 for my K100.
144 for the set from American Moto Tire.
Anyone tried these?
I run Duro 308's on my Ural, not much choice and they're factory. Decent tire but no idea how their other sizes match up. Check out Bridgestone Spitfires for old K's, I found a set for about $120 and very happy with them.
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I've got Duro's on my Shovelhead. But they are a tubed tire, and honestly I might put a thousand miles a year on it if I'm lucky.
My tires should be this week hopefully.
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You can get a lot of variation on tire wear depending on the abrasiveness of the roads you ride, how aggressive you are on the throttle (accelerates rear wear) and road temperatures. I have Shinko 712's on my 88 K75S. They have less than 500 miles on them. I also have a set on a CB750, they have roughly 1000 miles on them. They grip like crazy in the turns. It is a dual compound tire, and I can't see any noticeable wear. I paid 117$ for both sets. I'm happy with them so far. I don't think I would have bought them if it hadn't been for friends that run them and are very happy with them.
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I don't do the miles these days to worry too much about great mileage from a tire so maybe have different needs to most,also had a lapse of 16yrs(ankle damaged industrial accident)from motorcycling so have noticed the changes in tire abilties in recent years.Bike(K100RS 16v) came with Michelin Pilot Road 2s and subsequently fitted by me with Dunlop Roadsmarts:either choice(only difference I have found is bike turns quicker on Dunlops)gives much more grip,especially in the wet,than I ever thought possible.Given that I needed to rebuild my riding skills and often ride on twisty,cold,wet and greasy roads extra grip + the confidence it has given me is priceless.Mileage from the Dunlops Looks to be 6-7K ish.
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No matter what price point, design, style of tread or compound, any tire YOU feel comfortable with, is the BEST tire for you. Don't base your tire decision on what someone else likes as our opinions are biased to our particular likes, dislikes and financial condition. Just because I won't run some Chinese piece of crap on my bike doesn't mean it's not a good tire for you.
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Well I bought Dunlops thinking they were at least "decent" tires but are cracking after being installed for less than a year. I should have just bought Shinkos
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No matter what price point, design, style of tread or compound, any tire YOU feel comfortable with, is the BEST tire for you. Don't base your tire decision on what someone else likes as our opinions are biased to our particular likes, dislikes and financial condition. Just because I won't run some Chinese piece of crap on my bike doesn't mean it's not a good tire for you.
Shinko's are Korean... just saying.
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i like chinese dry cleaning and korean doughnuts...
j o
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No matter what price point, design, style of tread or compound, any tire YOU feel comfortable with, is the BEST tire for you. Don't base your tire decision on what someone else likes as our opinions are biased to our particular likes, dislikes and financial condition. Just because I won't run some Chinese piece of crap on my bike doesn't mean it's not a good tire for you.
Shinko's are Korean... just saying.
From what I understand they're designed in Japan and made in South Korea...right?
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I believe there is a parent company in Japan named Shinko, so you could be right.
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NO WHERE DID I MENTION A BRAND!!!!!!! SO DO NOT ASDUME I WAS REFERRING TO SHINKO
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NO WHERE DID I MENTION A BRAND!!!!!!! SO DO NOT ASDUME I WAS REFERRING TO SHINKO
Over react much?
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Only when I'm misquoted,
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I never asdumed you were. I was just pointing out that Shinko isn't a "Chinese piece of crap" for others that may not have known.
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Obviously a better piece of crap than that piece of crap with the cracks in the tread and the Anglo-sounding name in the pics above. Say no to crack - regardless of nation of origin.
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Apologies for the misquotement.
Are there any motorcycle tires available that are made in China?
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Are there any motorcycle tires available that are made in China?
Cheng Shin is one of them.
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Back when Cheng Shin were made in Taiwan I used to use their knobbies for the summer when the woods were drier. Hard compound, that bit well and didn't wear too fast. Knobs weren't as big as the Bridgestones we used in the Spring and Fall. Not too good on paved sections, but then, what knobby is?
Cheng Shin made good, cheap tires, but I haven't rode them in years. I wouldn't be afraid to try one.
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I have Metzelers on front and back (only tires I've ever used), but a friend suggested next time to use "Kenda" which I've never heard of, but she says they are inexpensive and great! Anyone ever use them?
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In other news, I called the dealer I got the D404 from. I explained the situation and the parts person I talked to had to call me back after talking with their tire representative, but called me back and said I can bring it in and they'll replace it. So I'll try to make it in there in the next few days. I'll take some more photos too
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Bridgestone Spitfires: wear very well but don't handle well on the rain grooves in Vegas...lots of wiggle. Spent the extra money and got the metzler laser tecs this time...as soon as I get the bike back together, we'll see how they work. waiting on a custom built throttle cable from Flanders now...and waiting...and waiting...
Good luck with the laser tecs before.
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I decided on Shinko Tourmasters front and rear on the K100RT. The mechanic I ordered them from talked me into the speed rated version. I assured him that the "H" tire (I think that's the lower speed rating) would be fine since I would like only ever hit 70mph/ 110kmh....somewhere in that zone. And likely slower most of the time. But he argued that it was the extra stickiness that he wanted for me, especially riding in the rain or wet conditions. He said "You're worth the extra $10 bucks per...". So we went with the V-rated.
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Brick got her new Duro HF918 mounted today.
Need to change her fluids tomorrow after work, then i'm going to go try them out.
If I don't have to work that weekend, I think i'll be taking her to the Moonshine Run and I can get a better idea about the tires
Sure beats the old, cracked Metzler's that were on her.
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The Metzelers on my bike, when I picked her up, were in excellent-looking condition....but they were ancient. The mechanic said that they looked hard and shiny...hardly worth the risk. It's not like they would blow up or blow out rather the traction component had been compromised. That and the tread was below acceptable.
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Reviving this thread in 2021.
I'm looking at either the
Continental ContiRoadAttack 3
Bridgetston Battlax BT-46
Dunlop Arrowmax GT601
After doing a search, there's no discussion of this new Continental tire or the Dunlop. Where I live, the Continental is 2X the price of the Bridgestone or the Dunlop. I'd prefer to have sticker and less mileage, all things considered.
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Reviving this thread in 2021.
I'm looking at either the
Continental ContiRoadAttack 3
Bridgetston Battlax BT-46
Dunlop Arrowmax GT601
After doing a search, there's no discussion of this new Continental tire or the Dunlop. Where I live, the Continental is 2X the price of the Bridgestone or the Dunlop. I'd prefer to have sticker and less mileage, all things considered.
I'd go with the RA3s. RA3s are radials while the others are bias ply. They'll handle much better dry/wet and they'll wear well too.
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I'd go with the RA3s. RA3s are radials while the others are bias ply. They'll handle much better dry/wet and they'll wear well too.
Good point- thank you! I'll go for the Contis.
The Conti RA3 only comes in a 130/80-18. I assume that will fit on the 18" rear wheel?
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Yes, a 130 width tire will fit on the the stock K75C rear rim. 10mm is an acceptable tire width increase on a 2.75" width rim. The Conti rear tire is 130/80-18. The 80 numeral on the Conti indicates a tire diameter difference of ≈13mm less than a stock 120/90 K75C tire. Your moto will be that much lower in the rear, which isn't much lower. Here's a tire sizing explanation from Dennis Kirk (https://www.denniskirk.com/learn/tire-sizes-explained) and a graphic from goodyearautoservice.com.(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/1601-130921113830.png)
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Thank you Laitch!
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Someone earlier said, "NO company will sell you a tire that will put your life at risk":
I beg to differ. I bought a set of literally the cheapest tires I could find for a KZ650d many years ago.
I went half way through a clean, dry traffic lighted intersection at the first red light after I picked up the bike and slid partially through the next two. Each takeoff spun the rear wheel, every corner found a slip. Rain was an absolute impossibility.
I swear to this day those tires were made of bowling ball rubber. No exaggeration.
Those tires were an absolute death trap, for real. There truly is a broad range of possibilities out there.
K's have a limited and largely known world of tires to pick from, but for other bikes - be extremely wary of the off brands.
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I use Shinkos about $200 for both front and rear. Just replaced them again yesterday. Never had a problem with them, am on my 3d set, they get around 7-9000 miles on them on the hot california roads I ride on. I don't ride in the rain, but if I get caught in a storm, I ride like a very old grand ma so I could tell you how they perform on wet roads. But on dry roads, they are great.
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Well my '91 K75S was back on the road after years. I got it 2 yrs ago and repainted all the plastic,new master cylinder, odyssey battery, etc.... the decades old lazertecs are skinny like my wallet and cracked worse than our economy but the bike worked flawless. :)
now im befuddled regarding the tires. im leaning toward the bt46's but the shang hi shank ho's sure look good to the bank account. I drive at O' dark thirty on twisty P poor Pocono roads AND also on the highway with a large group in formation at 80mph.
any guidance is appreciated
Eugene
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First off, Shinko tires are made in South Korea, not China.
That said, I have used them for about 8 years and at least 50,000 miles. In my experience, they are good tires that wear well, give good handling and offer great value. I have used other brands as well, Metzler, Continental, and Bridgestone, and honestly can't tell the difference in performance.
People will ask how much your life is worth, but when you buy a tire the question is how much are you paying for advertising, mention in magazine articles, promotional events like sponsoring races and race teams, and the socialist activities of the home country. While the fact that some racing team uses the same brand tire as you do is pretty cool, does the cost of sponsoring that team REALLY get you a street tire that is that much better? How do the taxes paid to support a socialist government get you better handling or rubber compounds for wet performance?
As near as I can tell, when I buy a Shinko, all I'm paying for is a tire. A tire made by the same incredibly hard working people who make excellent phones, televisions, cars, robots, machinery, and appliances for your house. I kinda like that.
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K bikes ride and handle noticeably better on RADIAL vs bias ply tires.
For a 91S (with 3 spoke wheels) get 110/80-18 front and 150/70-17 radials. I run Bridgestone T31 or T32 tires.
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Modern good brand bias ply tires are outstanding. In a blind test, I bet 99.99% of riders would have no clue what kind of tires, bias or radial, were on their bikes. I have been running Michelin Activ bias tires for a long time on my K75S... On street and on track. Traction and handling are amazing. They don't give up anything to a radial.
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Modern good brand bias ply tires are outstanding. In a blind test, I bet 99.99% of riders would have no clue what kind of tires, bias or radial, were on their bikes. I have been running Michelin Activ bias tires for a long time on my K75S... On street and on track. Traction and handling are amazing. They don't give up anything to a radial.
I have Activs on a K75 that I bought last year. They're good tires and all but the K75s I have running T31 radials are more "planted" and a better ride. I agree that most people couldn't tell the difference but if you ride one set of tires and then the other right after you can tell the difference.
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K bikes ride and handle noticeably better on RADIAL vs bias ply tires.
For a 91S (with 3 spoke wheels) get 110/80-18 front and 150/70-17 radials. I run Bridgestone T31 or T32 tires.
What do you see as the difference between the T31 and T32?
Is it only the three spoke (when wanting radial K75s?) that have radials available?
I've never quite understood the subtle difference in the three spoke vs standard - someone once told me that to put radials on a K75 you needed a K75 three spoke front but had to get a K1100 three spoke rear to get radials.....
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What do you see as the difference between the T31 and T32?
Is it only the three spoke (when wanting radial K75s?) that have radials available?
I've never quite understood the subtle difference in the three spoke vs standard - someone once told me you needed a K75 three spoke front but had to get a K1100 three spoke rear to get radials.....
T31s and T32s ride the same. When they came out with the T32 Bridgestone claimed a little better mileage and better wet performance.
The difference between Y and 3 spoke wheels is the width of the rear wheel. Y-spoke rear is 2.75x17. 3-spoke rear is 3x17. (The K1100LT rear is also a 3x17.)
There are radials you can run on Y-spokes - Continental Road Attack 3
Front: 110/80-18
Rear: 130/80-17
I put the Conti RA3's on a K75RT I restored for a friend and they're what I'd use on Y-spokes.
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Thank you, super clear.
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That said, I have used them for about 8 years and at least 50,000 miles. In my experience, they are good tires that wear well, give good handling and offer great value. I have used other brands as well, Metzler, Continental, and Bridgestone, and honestly can't tell the difference in performance.
Mirrors my experience, I've run Shinko 705 on a 148hp KTM as well as others and the tires stuck well on pavement and faired better than many 80/20 tires in dirt/gravel. The KTM was a rear-tire eating machine and they fared as well as anything else I ran on it.
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Riding. ‘93 K1100RS, 3 spoke wheels, and I’m up for new tires front and back. Currently have ME880 Marathons, but don’t think I need to spend the money on them this time as I am not riding aggressively. One thing that is confusing about tires is the different “series” offered by a single tire manufacturer. How do you pick one? I’d like to try the Shinkos but need to know which model or series to look for. There is also the concern about the rating for the bike weight etc. Anyone help me with Shinkos info for a K1100RS?
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I use Shinkos about $200 for both front and rear. Just replaced them again yesterday. Never had a problem with them, am on my 3d set, they get around 7-9000 miles on them on the hot california roads I ride on. I don't ride in the rain, but if I get caught in a storm, I ride like a very old grand ma so I could tell you how they perform on wet roads. But on dry roads, they are great.
Please tell me what series or model Shinko tires you are using. I am thinking I’d like to try them on a K1100RS.
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There are two series of Shinko readily available for the K11. The Tourmaster is their long range tire that will take a fully loaded touring bike up to 10,000 miles on the rear and 12,000+ on the front. Handling wet or dry is acceptable if you aren't a peg dragger. I have taken my bike through mountain passes in the Rockies on them. I've done 600 mile days in rain and snow on the interstate with them, crossed the desert in New Mexico and Arizona, been to the bottom of Death Valley to the top of Pikes Peak. They may be inexpensive, but they work for me.
The other series is the 712. I had them on my daily rider K75S. They handle well wet or dry. I suspect they have a softer compound because they get about 8-9,000 miles on the rear with 10,000 on the front. The tread pattern on the 712 is a bit cooler looking than the Tourmaster which looks like it was designed in the 60's.
As far as price, they are pretty similar. I get them online and mount them myself. A set will go for about $200 or there about from Chaparral or Revzilla.
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Excellent! Thank you. I’m certainly no “peg dragged”. I will price, select and expect to give them a try. ME880 Marathon 120/70R-17 front and 160/60R-18 rear is on the bike now.
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Spent some time on the web searching for Shinkos to fit the K1100RS. 120/70R-17 front, and 160/60R-18 rear.
Not much luck, so opened the Shinko web address, tried their “figment” button, no ‘93 K1100RS in the drop down options. Searched around for size possibilities, and got confused with the series notations. (What works on my bike?) decided to try an email question, and sent it off…. “ Please tell me what tires are recommended for a BMW K1100RS…..”
Got this back, so waiting for the response:
“….Due to the growing popularity of Shinko Tires we have loads of inquiries to attend to. Please allow up to 48 hours for our team to reply. Our business hours are 8am – 5pm Mountain Standard Time, Monday thru Friday……”
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I didn't see that you have an 1100RS. The series you want are the Shinko Podium radials.
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-rear-tire.html
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-front-tire.html
I'm running 150/60R18 rear and 120/70R17 front on the 16 valve K100RS in my avatar.
Love 'em.
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Please tell me what series or model Shinko tires you are using. I am thinking I’d like to try them on a K1100RS.
I use the tour master Shinko and have had good luck with them
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I use the tour master Shinko and have had good luck with them
Thanks, I was not having any luck finding my sizes in Tour Master radials. Are you using Radials/
[quote author=The Mighty Gryphon…………
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-rear-tire.html
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-front-tire.html
I'm running 150/60R18 rear and 120/70R17 front on the 16 valve K100RS in my avatar.
Love 'em.
[/quote]
Thank you! The links are a big help. Still waiting to see what Shinko offers in response.
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I think the Podium model is what they will recommend. This is my second year on mine and they feel pretty sticky and look good. They seem to be wearing well,too. For less than $250 a set they're not a bad deal.
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I think the Podium model is what they will recommend. This is my second year on mine and they feel pretty sticky and look good. They seem to be wearing well,too. For less than $250 a set they're not a bad deal.
I usually pay $250 or less for Bridgestone radials. Every spring, summer and fall Bridgestone usually has a $50 rebate. For example, last year I bought a pair of T32s for $272. $222 after rebate.
Rocky Mountain ATV and Chaparral usually have the best prices on Bridgestones.
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I'm happy with Bridgestone T32's both front and back. Just changed tire this week, swapping out my worn and squared off T30's with new T32's. 110/80ZR18 front and 150/70ZR17 rear. I got 25,400 KM and 7 years out of the old set. Unfortunate part was that in that time the tires had doubled in price.
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I think he's looking for tires right now.
https://www.bridgestonemotorcycletires.com/en-us/promotions
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I didn't see that you have an 1100RS. The series you want are the Shinko Podium radials.
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-rear-tire.html
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-front-tire.html
I'm running 150/60R18 rear and 120/70R17 front on the 16 valve K100RS in my avatar.
Love 'em.
Rats,…… Front 120/70R-17 ………. “OUT of STOCK”
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I think he's looking for tires right now.
https://www.bridgestonemotorcycletires.com/en-us/promotions
I guess it’s just ME! Every time I look for the tires mentioned, either no size or out of stock.
No R32 show in the Bridgestone front.
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Thanks, I was not having any luck finding my sizes in Tour Master radials. Are you using Radials/
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-rear-tire.html
https://www.chapmoto.com/shinko-006-podium-radial-front-tire.html
I'm running 150/60R18 rear and 120/70R17 front on the 16 valve K100RS in my avatar.
Love 'em.
Thank you! The links are a big help. Still waiting to see what Shinko offers in response.
The tour masters are radials I believe. My BMW dealer will match price of internet ad for the same tire so I have to search first for the exact tire and price. I noticed that some websites were not selling the Shinko Tour master size I needed for the rear. But I did find one that did. I brought the ads in and they gave me the same price. The BMW dealer gets to gouge me on mounting and balancing so everybody walks away happy.........
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The tour masters are radials I believe.
Tires that are radial tires will have an R in their size descriptor, e.g., 130/60ZR16 or 150/60R17. TourMasters are excellent tires by all accounts; they are bias-ply tires.
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Math is your friend.
Let's say I spend $50 more per pair on a pair of 10,000 mile quality radial tires vs. inexpensive bias ply tires.
The whopping cost of ownership has risen by a grand total of one half of a penny per mile.
Is it worth it to me to get a better contact patch, better handling and smoother ride for a half of a penny per mile? Yes.
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Come on Duck! When is the last time you got 10k out of a set of tires, remember I've seen how you rip.
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Just curious, but how can we tell we are actually getting better contact patches, and so on?
Is it because the people who make these tires spend millions of dollars sponsoring racing teams and events, and buying full page ads in Cycle World and the other motobike mags? How much of that extra 50 bucks goes for ESG in the home country?
How far above the legal limit would I need to ride to notice the difference?
Like I said, I'm just a curious, cheap bastard.
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I find it curious that some K bikes use 17 front / 18 rear like mine, and others do the opposite? Regarding my original post, it has been frustrating searching tire vendor sites, eBay, and Amazon for a matched SET of tires! I find a Shinko front, but no rear, etc. Always one but not the other, Over and over again. What’s up with this, “supply chain”? :idunno: I guess quite possibly YES, but still seems odd. Really wanted to try Shinko Podiums or the Battlax T32, in the OEM recommended sizes: 120/70R-17 and 160/60R-18. Shinko does not list a 160/60R-18, really? Still looking……….. 👀. If anyone finds’em, I am not too proud to be shown where!!
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If anyone finds’em, I am not too proud to be shown where!!
T32 tires in your sizes seem to be available here right now (https://www.americanmototire.com/street-tires/?narrow=%5B%5B%22Brand%22%2C%22BRIDGESTONE%22%5D%2C%5B%22Tire%20width%22%2C%22120%22%5D%2C%5B%22Tire%20width%22%2C%22160%22%5D%5D&disable_semantics=1), but will not necessarily be available when you get around to looking for them later. :laughing4-giggles:
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Just curious, but how can we tell we are actually getting better contact patches, and so on?
According to what I've gleaned from the Web, it takes years of butt-sensitivity and remote cognition development plus single-minded devotion to exercises for those skills—some of which might not be agreeable to the ordinary rider—and the ability to obtain a number of motorcycles fitted with the appropriate sample tire combinations to allow the reviewer to leap from one tire-set trial moto to the next while butt-sensitivity is at its highest level.
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T32 tires in your sizes seem to be available here right now (https://www.americanmototire.com/street-tires/?narrow=%5B%5B%22Brand%22%2C%22BRIDGESTONE%22%5D%2C%5B%22Tire%20width%22%2C%22120%22%5D%2C%5B%22Tire%20width%22%2C%22160%22%5D%5D&disable_semantics=1), but will not necessarily be available when you get around to looking for them later. :laughing4-giggles:
icon_cheers Yes Thanks! I do see them listed. Also found the T32 set available (listed) at Dennis Kirk.
https://www.denniskirk.com/bridgestone/battlax-t32-sport-touring-tire.pfp546364.prdf?fs=546373&rs=546380
Shinkos are a size no go, but the T32 set is still significantly cheaper than the Metzler tires I have been using.
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Come on Duck! When is the last time you got 10k out of a set of tires, remember I've seen how you rip.
I can't talk to Duck's riding habits but read my post above. I got 25K on my last set of Bridgestone T30s. But I don't rip.
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I got 25K on my last set of Bridgestone T30s.
Kilometers?
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Yes. Still that's 15,500 of those mile things so still beats 10,000. When are you guys going to go metric??
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When are you guys going to go metric??
I'll check my watch and get back with you.
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When are you guys going to go metric??
When they pry our cold dead hands from our 6 inch steel scales!
I actually work in both (typically in decimal fractions for imperial) and regularly tell people that measuring in metric is easier, it's just that we don't have a mental frame of reference for metric measurements since we've been taught imperial since birth. Most in the US can mentally think about what 10 inches looks like but ~250mm doesn't register. I just ordered a proper metric feeler gauge the other day, the imperial ones marked with thousandths of inches and dual marked with mm just grinds my gears because the mm are never nominal values.
Then you have those weird Civil Engineers who use tenths and hundredths of inches for some strange reason. I somehow ended up with a civil engineering 6 inch scale a few years ago, totally useless in machine shop.
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When do we get the metric calendar and time? Ten minutes in an hour, ten months in a year, ten hours in a day, ten days in a week.
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Then you have those weird Civil Engineers who use tenths and hundredths of inches for some strange reason. I somehow ended up with a civil engineering 6 inch scale a few years ago, totally useless in machine shop.
My undergrad degree is CivE. The reason for the 10ths of an inch thing on rulers is that it was easier to scale things back when drawings were drafted by hand. The tape measures are for surveying because it makes the math and trigonometry easier.
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Come on Duck! When is the last time you got 10k out of a set of tires, remember I've seen how you rip.
On a K75 I can get maybe 9K out of a rear since a K75 doesn't have that much torque. The front always has lots of tread left but I replace in pairs.
The K1600GT is only good for maybe 6-7K. (I use the Bridgestone GT version on that bike since it weighs so much.)
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Just curious, but how can we tell we are actually getting better contact patches, and so on?
Is it because the people who make these tires spend millions of dollars sponsoring racing teams and events, and buying full page ads in Cycle World and the other motobike mags? How much of that extra 50 bucks goes for ESG in the home country?
How far above the legal limit would I need to ride to notice the difference?
Like I said, I'm just a curious, cheap bastard.
I can tell the difference at 60 MPH. The stretch of US 101 that I live on has both 50 and 55 MPH speed limits. i usually ride at 8-9 over to avoid getting a performance award. (ticket) The bike feels more "planted" and smooth in the turns.
When I'm touring and doing sweepers at 90ish the difference is much more noticeable. On bias ply tires the rear end of a K kind of floats around, on radials it's like raiding on rails.
The contact patch has to do with how a tire flexes, both in the tread and the sidewalls.
This guy explains it pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXTfL8LZqfk
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This guy explains it pretty well: . . .
:laughing4-giggles:
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I did post that somewhat in jest but the graphics in that vid do show the difference in flex between radial and bias ply tires.
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For anyone following: Settled on the Bridgestone Battlax T32.
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My undergrad degree is CivE. The reason for the 10ths of an inch thing on rulers is that it was easier to scale things back when drawings were drafted by hand. The tape measures are for surveying because it makes the math and trigonometry easier.
Thanks, I'd never heard that before.
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The best way to maximize tire mileage is to get the bike as leaned over as far as possible as often as possible. Tires generally get “squared off” and wear most in the middle of the tire tread. However, you’re paying for the entire tread from side to side so you should use all of it in order to maximize your ROI.
“The cheapest part on a BMW is the owner.”
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“The cheapest part on a BMW is the owner.”
Damn right!!! You can put my picture next to that quote.
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Damn right!!! You can put my picture next to that quote.
“The cheapest part on a BMW is the owner.”(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/4/1601-040722095711.png)
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Just bought a pair of BT46 tires and will update once I have changed over and ridden them. Wish me (and my zip ties) some luck!!
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I'm having a hard time finding radials for a 1997 K1100LT.
The Bridgestone T32 front looks good, biut finding a 140/80x17 rear is tricky. I can find an ADV tire for it. I can actually put a TKC-80 big knobbie on it, even. That would be silly.
I got the LT because I knew my back would hate the RS, although I loved the RS. I didn't know unitl late that the rim sizes were different and the RS would have loads of good options and the LT... few and far between.
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150/70-17 for the LT rear. That's what I run on my K1100LT, K75s and K100.
Avon used to make a 140/80 radial but I don't think anybody makes that size in a radial anymore.
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Just bought a pair of BT46 tires and will update once I have changed over and ridden them. Wish me (and my zip ties) some luck!!
I saw that this thread was there and I hadn't updated as promised. So to sum up, I have BT46's that I bought last summer and finally put on my bike. I bought from Revco (Canada, costs in CDN$):
Bridgestone Battlax BT-46 Tire Location: Front, Tire Size: 110/90-18, Load/Speed Index: 61H 1 $142.20
Bridgestone Battlax BT-46 Tire Location: Rear, Tire Size: 130/90-17, Load/Speed Index: 68V 1 $197.26
My clutch replacement took longer that I expected and I got too impatient and had too much other work going on to change the tires over so had a local motorbike shop install the tires on the wheels. I had replaced my rear shock with a custom Wilbers shock so that may have contributed to the improved handling of my bike, but I feel a good grip and nice tracking with these tires. I'm no longer at the peg-scraping age so can't really comment on how they might do under more extreme conditions but they inspire confidence and expect that I'll get years of service out of them.