Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 05:20:06 PM
Post by: Laitch on July 27, 2024, 06:08:36 PM
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 06:13:04 PM
Post by: frankenduck on July 27, 2024, 06:13:41 PM
https://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=3061.0
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 06:17:17 PM
Ignition amp:
https://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=3061.0
I had wondered if this might be it. I did mount my ignition amp to a new alloy subframe without the goop. I have a tube of it I ordered and was planning to put it on once I work up the energy to do what's needed to access it(it requires removing most of my electrons because of where I relocated it).
You think thats the likely culprit?
Post by: Laitch on July 27, 2024, 06:21:42 PM
Ignition amp::thisplacewhack
https://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=3061.0You think thats the likely culprit?
Post by: frankenduck on July 27, 2024, 06:27:28 PM
I had wondered if this might be it. I did mount my ignition amp to a new alloy subframe without the goop. I have a tube of it I ordered and was planning to put it on once I work up the energy to do what's needed to access it(it requires removing most of my electrons because of where I relocated it).
You think thats the likely culprit?
First thing I looked for after reading your post was to see if your K1100 was a 93.
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 06:29:22 PM
:thisplacewhack
Haha, I hope so. Doesn't seem that my symptoms match the description in thay link that closely. I get a couple shudders after like an hour or more, then it shuts off. If I turn the bike off then on, it starts right up and runs for a bit before dying again. Does that sound right for this being rhe issue?
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 06:29:51 PM
First thing I looked for after reading your post was to see if your K1100 was a 93.
So it's a common thing on the 93?
Post by: frankenduck on July 27, 2024, 06:39:45 PM
So it's a common thing on the 93?
Yes, also on the earlier K100RS4V and K1 which also have the ignition amp. 94+ K1100s have a different Motronic and ignition system without an ignition amp.
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 06:47:07 PM
Post by: Laitch on July 27, 2024, 07:01:47 PM
(https://www.motobrick.com/gallery/4/1601-270724185447.png)
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 07:25:08 PM
Excuse the spaghetti below....it actually a lot better than it looks.
Post by: frankenduck on July 27, 2024, 07:42:00 PM
Post by: frankenduck on July 27, 2024, 07:45:24 PM
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 08:08:31 PM
Post by: frankenduck on July 27, 2024, 08:35:37 PM
Post by: sooprvylyn on July 27, 2024, 11:24:46 PM
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 05, 2024, 01:07:20 PM
Ok, so I put thermal paste on my IC amp and I am still having problems.
Symptoms:
I can ride for an hour or more without problems. When I start it back up after a break to continue riding, it will go for a bit and then it will suddenly lose power. It wont start again until I turn the bike off and then back on again. Once I start it again it will run for a few more minutes before dying again. I can get it started right away every time as long as I turn the bike off first and back on.
Ideas?
I'm thinking it could still potentially be the IC amp as the mounting location is under the seat in close proximity to all the res of my electronics, and airflow might not be the greatest, and I'm sure there is a little heat from the fan blowing up there. Is this the likely problem? I rode it in this location for about 6 mpnths before the problems started, but they definitely started during the summer and it gets fairly hot here in austin. It's not a particularly hot day today, but I did have it parked in the sun for about 30 minutes before resuming my ride and getting the problems
Any other possible issues I should look into?
Post by: Laitch on October 05, 2024, 02:12:42 PM
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 05, 2024, 03:04:17 PM
After research on hall effects problems I strongly think this is a likely culprit. From what I've read they tend to go bad around 70-80k Mike's, right where my bikes engine is. Also the symptoms I read are pretty much in line with what I'm experiencing. I'm gonna get a new one and replace it and see if that sorts me out. I think the ICU is probably OK because I did feel it after the bike died to see how warm it was and it didn't feel particularly warm, and neither did the metal plate on the opposite side of where it was mounted.
Post by: Laitch on October 05, 2024, 03:14:37 PM
After research on hall effects problems I strongly think this is a likely culprit. From what I've read they tend to go bad around 70-80k . . .Some might, but most work tens of thousands longer than that in bikes ridden and not neglected. There's a test that you can try; you probably read about it during your research. Give it a try.
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 05, 2024, 03:39:15 PM
Post by: Kaos on October 21, 2024, 04:49:07 PM
Which wiring diagram was the foundation for your m-unit?
Do the following wires share the same relay(s) or the same powersource: ecu, ignitioncoil wires, fan, fuelpump or a combination of these
the several other possible options to the above are:
option 1, you either have separated power cables running from the battery 1 for the m unit with fuse and and other(s) to relays.
If this is the case its most likely overdrawing your battery when your fan starts, or even worse when your fan is locked up. then it draws way to much voltage and your bike will shut down.
This can also happen with other relay connected components. (sounds most logic when it happens after about a hour and starting afterwards)
option 2, no fuse (40 amp) and are overdrawing the battery to run insufficient voltage to the ecu.
This can also happen with Insufficient resistance (thickness) for the powercable. For example Noco powersport batteries or other lifePo4 batteries have overdraw protection which will result in exactly your symptoms.
Option 3 A wiring issue (most likely the alternator blue wire) <- if this were the case you'd have to charge your battery btw.
this needs to be connected to a 12volt (or less with resistors) outlet to charge your battery properly. Your m-unit would still give out power to the attached leds cause they draw very low voltage.
Option 4 Your grounding cables might have an issue or insufficient grounding or thickness for whatever happens after a hour, with yet again the possibillity of your fan starting.
Therse a pretty easy way to test overdrawing and insufficient anything, just have a spare fuse ready because you may blow your fuse when its wiring or drawing power related.
Set your bike in neutral. Set your blinkers to position lights at a higher percentage open the throttle and start your bike with throttle opened, not fully, 1/3 half maybe.
If your leds start to flash or when you blow the fuse you have to change the wiring routing.
After this you could additionally test it with your bike in neutral and fully opening the throttle with a quick wrist flick, if lights starts flashing it probably of the 4 options with 3 being the least likely.
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 21, 2024, 06:51:04 PM
Aux 1 is feeding my fan relay, my fuel relay and, and my ECU(kick stand POS I think). I am about 90% sure its something fan related.
I've been a little lazy lately with the bench testing as I am also adding in a catch can, and working on a fuel cooler, and replacing my too small puke can, but i have the entire guts off the bike and can connect the m.unit and relays to a battery and try grounding the fan relay switch(after connecting a light to the output) to see if the aux 1 over-amperage warning gets triggered.
This is 100% a new problem after I cleaned up my wires. I probably connected something in the fan relay wrong. I didn't have the overamperage warnings until I redid the wiring at the same time I thermal pasted my ignition unit. I have date stamps on the warnings and every single one since I rewired has the overamperage warning...and no warning prior to this
Post by: Kaos on October 22, 2024, 02:47:49 AM
Luckily it is quite an easy fix and also multiple possibilities.
Best practice is feed the fan from aux 1 and another 12v switched, usually this is the connector cable for the speedo.
now you can feed the fuel pump without relay with 2 cables running from both aux 2 ports, each are 12v or run both to the relay. this gives room for another output in aux 2.
Ecu is best to connect to the power connector on the motogadget itself you will have the ECU "behind" the fuse in this way. or a separate wire from the battery.
Using a separate cable from the battery to feed the ecu also gives the option to feed the fuel relay Activated by the ignition output from the m-unit.
kickstand should be on stand input and a ground then it acts like a push button for the m-unit. This config requires a setup modification in the App.
It doenst have to be connected to the ecu to kill the bike.
Good thing is, we know the fan works because it draws. But you might want to give it a spin by hand and see if you feel any resistance spinning it. If you do feel resistance it will overdraw to start up.
The fan itself should feel like a common house fan. If you feel resistance you can spray the rotary part with some dry chain lube so it wont gunk up, works like a charm. just let it dry for a little bit (5 min or so)
Also, the fan can be directly put into the aux port without relay (for both testing or daily usage). Or any port for testing.
It does not specifically have to be the fan itself that is the problem, but current setup definitely overdraws when the fan is activated.
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 22, 2024, 02:38:34 PM
I don't actually have a kick stand switch on my bike, but (iirc from the wiring diagram) the ecu needs a pos input coming from the kickstand switch in order to allow the bike to run, so it needs that pos output for sure. I worry that connecting the ecu direct to battery and not to switched power may cause parasitic drain when the bike is off. Will it not?
The fan is a brand new spal unit, I know it's working as it should(sans whatever relat issue might be happnening)
The aux outputs on the m.unit should all be 10amp fused...didn't think I was drawing that much, but perhaps I am..tho i kinda feel like it might be a short since the running draw is well under 10amps before that fan kicks on. I think the fan relay output pos should probably just connect to the m.unit pos terminal since it won't draw til triggered.
Anyway, I have some wiring to play with, and I'll reread your comment carefully when I get on it to make sure I'm catching everything you suggest.
Post by: Laitch on October 22, 2024, 04:23:48 PM
I don't actually have a kick stand switch on my bike, but (iirc from the wiring diagram) the ecu needs a pos input coming from the kickstand switch in order to allow the bike to run,Motronic 2.1 fuel pump/side stand/Motronic control unit interaction.
(https://www.motobrick.com/gallery/4/1601-221024155047.png)
Post by: frankenduck on October 22, 2024, 04:38:20 PM
On 93 and earlier 4V bikes the side stand switch sends 12V to the fuel relay.
On 94 and later K1100s the side stand switch grounds the Motronic and starter relays.
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 22, 2024, 05:01:44 PM
Post by: sooprvylyn on October 22, 2024, 05:13:04 PM
Post by: frankenduck on October 22, 2024, 05:34:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/66ACZxC.jpeg)
Post by: Kaos on October 23, 2024, 03:24:47 AM
- Green/yellow (sidestand)
- Brown/black, grounding connector for a relay,
- Brown/blue, grounding connector for a relay,
- Blue/Black, (dont remember its original use, dont confuse it with black/blue RPM)
Green black should run to ignition.
Clutch is yellow black.
M-unit outputs shouldnt have to be connected to a fuse because the m-unit has a failover.
The startup of the fan is a combination of draw, especialy when using a relay, the sensor has currency which starts to send signal when reaching 90celcius
Opening the relay which then starts to draw for input to the fan, the startup of the fan can draw up to 24volts -iirc-, dont pin me down on this.
all the while you have connected it to a 12v output.
Anyway, here is your diagram modded for m-unit use.
and my m-unit wiring diagram with all optional routes for connecting to the m-unit.
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SwapWiringDiagram.png (49.26 kB . 768x399 - viewed 263 times)side note. The wiring diagram is the one I currently use facing no issues on power draw. BUT it's designed to run a 2valve bike on 4valve electronics.