MOTOBRICK.COM
TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: rocketbrick on August 06, 2023, 08:03:03 PM
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So, I was riding about two weeks ago on a fairly hot day to a local bar. The parking lot was gravel/dirt and I didn't have good leverage for center stand, so I popped it on the side stand. It sat there for about an hour or two before I rode about 15 mins home. About 10 mins into my ride, the bike died and wouldn't start back up. Cranked, battery charged and fine, but it wasn't getting fuel. I suspected vapor lock because I left it overnight and returned in the morning, and was able to get it home.
Cut to today - charged the battery, changed the fuel and vacuum lines, changed the pump, still no start. It got close a couple times, and started a few times in the past few days, but it was in my garage. Today, it was sitting outside.
Bike is a 1988 BMW K75C. I heard it could be the hall effect sensor, but I've got no idea. ODO is at approx 67,500
Where do I start? Any advice?
UPDATE: 9:43PM. Tried starting, nothing. Cleaned the connections on the ignition switch and it made no difference.
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If a Brick cranks but doesn't start, check the spark plugs. Are they wet or dry? That's the place to start. When you crank it then stop, can you here the fuel pump whine for a couple of seconds? That's normal. If you don't hear it check fuse # 6 to verify if its wire is broken. If you suspect vapor lock, open the tank and try starting it. Sometimes that overcomes the lock.
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What's up, Laitch?
The plugs are dry and getting spark - I tested them last night. I can't hear the fuel pump whine at all, so that makes me think it's something electrical after all. Fuse # 6 you say? I'll check it shortly.
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If a Brick cranks but doesn't start, check the spark plugs. Are they wet or dry? That's the place to start. When you crank it then stop, can you here the fuel pump whine for a couple of seconds? That's normal. If you don't hear it check fuse # 6 to verify if its wire is broken. If you suspect vapor lock, open the tank and try starting it. Sometimes that overcomes the lock.
Fuse #6 is the 6th one down on the side fuse box, yeah?
EDIT: 8:02AM - I’ve got an update. It’s 100% not getting fuel from the pump. I was able to start it for a split second today and it ran before it inevitably died. Some fuel must have slipped down the line past the pump. I unplugged the pump and still got a momentary start and run out of it.
So, fuel pump is not getting power. It's a new pump and it's hooked up correctly, so that has to mean relay or fuse, right?
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Fuel tank connectors can be an issue.
Take that connector apart. You should get 12V on the GRN/WHT wire when the starter button is pressed and the engine is turning. That will tell you if the problem is upstream or downstream of the connector.
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Fuel tank connectors can be an issue.
Take that connector apart. You should get 12V on the GRN/WHT wire when the starter button is pressed and the engine is turning. That will tell you if the problem is upstream or downstream of the connector.
I've got the cranking volts of the GRN/WHT wire, so it doesn't seem to be the issue. I did just recently replace the fuel sender since this bike came with it deleted. I suppose the issue could be there, since used parts?
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You can use ring terminals to jump power to the fuel pump from the green/white and brown wires in order to bypass the connector and fuel level sender. (The smaller diameter terminal on the fuel pump is 12V so should connect to the green/white wire.)
(https://i.imgur.com/EQRlIog.jpg)
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You can use ring terminals to jump power to the fuel pump from the green/white and brown wires in order to bypass the connector and fuel level sender. (The smaller diameter terminal on the fuel pump is 12V so should connect to the green/white wire.)
(https://i.imgur.com/EQRlIog.jpg)
Gotcha - I'm a bit of a backyard mechanic, so I'm learning a little at a time. What should I use to jump from the connection wires to the fuel tank? Should I just splice them?
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I used Posi-Taps when I did that. (DO NOT use Scotchloks.)
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OK! I've got some new fuses I'm going to try first, then I'll give this a try. Thanks for the info - I also checked the relay and it looks brand-spanking new, so definitely no problem there.
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If you're getting 12V at the GRN/WHT wire when the engine is turning then #6 fuse and FI relay are working.
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You can have 12v at the tank connector socket on the harness, but it might not be getting to the pins on the plug that comes from the tank. That is a fairly common problem. Clean the connector with Deoxit and tweak the pins a tiny bit to help them make better contact in the socket.
It's also possible that a wire is broken where it enters the tank. That is a tougher problem to fix.
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The bike came w/ the fuel float deleted, so I still have the plate I can replace it with.
I'm really hoping it's not the dumb fuel float, I spent too much money on that thing :laughing1: time to get some posi-taps!
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You can have 12v at the tank connector socket on the harness, but it might not be getting to the pins on the plug that comes from the tank. That is a fairly common problem. Clean the connector with Deoxit and tweak the pins a tiny bit to help them make better contact in the socket.
It's also possible that a wire is broken where it enters the tank. That is a tougher problem to fix.
A lot of times it fails inside of the tank side connector. Hence the trailer wire repair:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/fls.connector/fls.connector.htm
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A lot of times it fails inside of the tank side connector. Hence the trailer wire repair:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/fls.connector/fls.connector.htm
True. Good point.
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So, going to get the posi-taps and give testing the connector a shot.
I'd like to replace the connector - can it be done with something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/Lonlonty-Aviation-Connector-Industrial-Waterproof/dp/B09YLP4JFY/ref=sr_1_28?crid=RM82IIAPNFQ9&keywords=4%2Bpin%2Bconnector&qid=1691453372&sprefix=4%2Bpin%2Bconnector%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-28&th=1
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I'd like to replace the connector - can it be done with something like this?
That's a helluva connector there, rocketbrick, and is likely to work fine, but it's overkill. There are less complex connectors than the one in your link and these (https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/connectors.html) are some examples of them.
The trailer connector that frankenduck links to in Reply #13 has done the job for generations of trailer lights working in much worse conditions than being tucked under your Brick's fuel tank. It will be easier to disconnect than your example when you're lubing the rear drive splines—a task done yearly if your ride is a tool, not a toy. If it were me doing this, I'd use the difference in price for a meal in some far flung destination.
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That's a helluva connector there, rocketbrick, and is likely to work fine, but it's overkill. There are less complex connectors than the one in your link and these (https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/connectors.html) are some examples of them.
The trailer connector that frankenduck links to in Reply #13 has done the job for generations of trailer lights working in much worse conditions than being tucked under your Brick's fuel tank. It will be easier to disconnect than your example when you're lubing the rear drive splines—a task done yearly if your ride is a tool, not a toy. If it were me doing this, I'd use the difference in price for a meal in some far flung destination.
Hah! The beefier the better for me. You mean the solder joint job, right? I'd go with that, but I just want the ease of removable connection. Plus, with my luck, I'd rather be bulletproof. But I like your thinking with the meal savings ;)
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You mean the solder joint job, right? I'd go with that, but I just want the ease of removable connection.
The 4-pin trailer connector is a removable connector. Those connectors replace what is there now. You could use Posi-locks to join the connectors to the wires, and rather than cut across the wires at the same place, the cuts could be staggered to make the total joint less bulky. Please post a photo of the job when you finish it and maybe a brief description of what you did.
Rather than worry about the connectors being bulletproof, maybe you should install a kevlar tank bra if there's that kind of threat where you ride. :laughing4-giggles:
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I recently purchased a kit of heat shrink waterproof connectors. Very easy to use, slide the connector over the wire, twist the wires together, slide the connector over the join and heat carefully with a lighter or mini gas torch. It produces a really nice waterproof connection.
Regards Martin.
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The 4-pin trailer connector is a removable connector. Those connectors replace what is there now. You could use Posi-locks to join the connectors to the wires, and rather than cut across the wires at the same place, the cuts could be staggered to make the total joint less bulky. Please post a photo of the job when you finish it and maybe a brief description of what you did.
Rather than worry about the connectors being bulletproof, maybe you should install a kevlar tank bra if there's that kind of threat where you ride. :laughing4-giggles:
Ahhhh, couldn't tell - only saw the soldered wires and not the connector in the background. Makes sense, I'll give that a shot!
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Hey y’all, did the trailer connector fix. Everything is getting power but it’s still not starting. I’m at a loss, no idea where to go from here 🤷
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Everything is getting power but it’s still not starting. I’m at a loss, no idea where to go from here 🤷
Does that mean you can hear the fuel pump whine for two seconds after you quit cranking the engine?
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Sorry, I wasn't clear - still no fuel pump power, I mean.
I used the voltmeter on the new trailer connection and I see it's getting the proper amount of voltage
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So everything doesn't mean everything, eh? I'll keep that in mind. :laughing4-giggles:
Under what conditions is the connector to the pump getting 12V? Which wires are getting 12v? Is the starter running? Is 12V on both sides of the connector?
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Hahaha! My bad - frustration must jumble up text.
No power to the tabs in the tank. So the float must be at fault, eh? The pump is fine, tested it on a battery charger and it works.
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Un-jumble and answer all of the questions. :laughing4-giggles:
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Under cranking the connector is getting the proper voltage. The connectors in the gas tank aren’t getting any power according to my voltmeter, so I’d assume from that there’s no power making it into the tann
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From your description, the fuel injection relay seems to be working okay.
The wire getting the correct voltage on the down stream side of the connector when cranking should find its mate on the downstream site of the fuel level sender. Maybe you've got your wires crossed at the fuel level sender, 4-pin connectors and/or the pump terminals. Revisit all connections; establish continuity with the wire that allegedly powers up when cranking.
I'm returning to a broken alternator clutch and cleaning up the monkey nut shards and clutch vane fragments left by its failure.
Replacement parts standing by; photos to be posted in a new thread someday. :laughing4-giggles:
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From your description, the fuel injection relay seems to be working okay.
The wire getting the correct voltage on the down stream side of the connector when cranking should find its mate on the downstream site of the fuel level sender. Maybe you've got your wires crossed at the fuel level sender, 4-pin connectors and/or the pump terminals. Revisit all connections; establish continuity with the wire that allegedly powers up when cranking.
I'm returning to a broken alternator clutch and cleaning up the monkey nut shards and clutch vane fragments left by its failure.
Replacement parts standing by; photos to be posted in a new thread someday. :laughing4-giggles:
Wires are on the correct terminals and all. No dice :( Double checked my new connections - all are twisted together and soldered nice and tight. No problems there.
Good luck with the new parts, hopefully the day comes where I can help you :laughing4-giggles:
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. . . hopefully the day comes where I can help you :laughing4-giggles:
I still have three cords of wood to move and stack, so if you're in the neighborhood, drop in.
If everything you indicate about your connections is accurate, it seems to me that the wire to the pump that passes through the fuel level sender has been broken. It's also possible some of the crew here will come up with more accurate observations than mine that will sort out this problem.
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Alright everyone - update. Tested with positaps and bypassed the connector. It's definitely the fuel float. Any ideas on how to inspect it or bypass it without getting a new one? I just bought it from K Bike Parts Holland not 2 months ago, so it's a little frustrating (but what can you do when it comes to used parts).
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Thanks for the update.
For clarity, refer to the source of the problem as the fuel level sender wiring, not the fuel float. Beemuker, a member here, is having a similar challenge; in these aging parts, it is becoming more common especially if corrosion from old fuel has been allowed to occur within the tank. He's attempting to replace a faulty sender with an ebay replacement. He's following successful technique done by this rider (https://www.k100-forum.com/t18298-a-15-fuel-level-sender-sort-of#209730). By all appearances, this solution will allow you to remove the OEM sender, analyze how it's wired and maybe even repair it eventually if a working OEM doesn't fall into your lap. In the meantime, you'll be able to ride. icon_cheers
When I first got my Brick, I carried a spare gallon of fuel with me, filled the tank then allowed my Brick's engine to start missing from lack of fuel. Using the tripmeter, I derived an average over four trips of mixed terrain riding. 224 miles is the point at which the engine becomes fuel starved on hills, so I always refuel at 210 miles or less. My fuel light registers at 170 but I ignore it unless there's a long stretch ahead without refill. That's one source of excitement in my life. 177381 The odometer/tripmeter method works well; all that is needed is awareness. Awareness is a major component of safe riding anyway.
Fix it the simple way being offered at the link I provided to avoid chronic sender envy. :laughing4-giggles:
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Thanks for the update.
For clarity, refer to the source of the problem as the fuel level sender wiring, not the fuel float. Beemuker, a member here, is having a similar challenge; in these aging parts, it is becoming more common especially if corrosion from old fuel has been allowed to occur within the tank. He's attempting to replace a faulty sender with an ebay replacement. He's following successful technique done by this rider (https://www.k100-forum.com/t18298-a-15-fuel-level-sender-sort-of#209730). By all appearances, this solution will allow you to remove the OEM sender, analyze how it's wired and maybe even repair it eventually if a working OEM doesn't fall into your lap. In the meantime, you'll be able to ride. icon_cheers
When I first got my Brick, I carried a spare gallon of fuel with me, filled the tank then allowed my Brick's engine to start missing from lack of fuel. Using the tripmeter, I derived an average over four trips of mixed terrain riding. 224 miles is the point at which the engine becomes fuel starved on hills, so I always refuel at 210 miles or less. My fuel light registers at 170 but I ignore it unless there's a long stretch ahead without refill. That's one source of excitement in my life. 177381 The odometer/tripmeter method works well; all that is needed is awareness. Awareness is a major component of safe riding anyway.
Fix it the simple way being offered at the link I provided to avoid chronic sender envy. :laughing4-giggles:
Hey Laitch, will do.
The method you linked was basically what I had to do when I bought my brick. The fuel sender unit was deleted and the bike was a no-starter because of faulty connections. I resoldered right to the plate connections and it fired up, but I wanted to replace with a proper unit. I'm going to try this out yet again (but the right way) and see what happens. I also might just reattach that plate since I saved it, we'll see!
Also, my odometer doesn't work either - I'm really going to have to get good at distance estimation :laughing4-giggles:
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Also, my odometer doesn't work either - I'm really going to have to get good at distance estimation :laughing4-giggles:
More often than not that can be fixed by gear replacement. There are several threads here and elsewhere about that task. You can try that during your idle hours whenever they might be. It's in Spanish but if you click on the CC icon, you can set subtitles in American-English and get some training.
This is a helpful video to guide you through disassembly for inspection of the odometer gears. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IT6zm8771k)
If you inspect the gears, it's possible you'll discover broken or missing teeth among them. Gears are available. Some members have found replacements among bulk packs found at hobby stores but specialists in odometer repairs also sell them if you can supply number of teeth, diameter and thickness measurements of the gears. If all gears are okay and firmly attached to their shafts then its an electrical problem. frankenduck has helpful concerning the instrument cluster and odometer at his site (http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/ckb.tech.toc.htm#instr).
As usual, patience and photographing components before disassembly can lessen frustration during reassembly.
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Thanks for the info on the odo. That's next.
Just soldered wires to the plate w/o the fuel sender unit on it, and it's drawing constant power. Hooked it up to the pump and voila, we have power to the pump. I'm draining the gas tank now and am going to swap out the sender unit mounts and see what happens.
We're getting close y'all!
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Aaaaaand she's a runner, folks. Thanks everyone for the help - used the solve just sent by Laitch to bypass the fuel sender unit. Luckily, I had a spare plate lying around with the sender broken off, and soldered directly to that.
Appreciate all of the assistance!
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Aaaaaaaand I spoke too soon. I was going on a test ride around my neighborhood and down the street when I got an insane squeak/squeal and knock out of the engine. I wasn't pushing it mighty hard, staying within reasonable RPMs and speed, but I did go 55mph on a flat out road adjacent to the neighborhood.
Anyway, seems that the bike intermittently cuts in and out: https://youtube.com/shorts/uRgVDm9Q7Ps?feature=share
Any ideas or familiarity?
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Just soldered wires to the plate w/o the fuel sender unit on it, and it's drawing constant power. Hooked it up to the pump and voila,
When is it drawing "constant power?" It should have power only when the starter is cranking the engine or the engine is running. It should not have power when the key is turned to On and nothing else is happening.
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THe first thing I would do is get into the engine and check the cam timing.
Also, are you sure you have the fuel pump wires to the correct wires in the harness? Laitch is right that it should only run when the engine is cranking or running.
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Constant power during riding - not when key is turned and bike isn’t on. Everything is good in the wiring.
I have the clymer, so I’ll have to bust into that to see how to check the timing. What exactly am I looking for? I found another forum post that it could be a water pump, but I don’t know much about anything when it comes to these things.
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Cam timing is what you are looking for. There are arrows on the cam sprockets that need to align with each other at top dead center of cylinder #1 or something like that. The shop manual will tell you what to do. It's probably okay, but you don't want to take a chance that it is off.
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Will do!
I'm really concerned about that squealing. It sounds expensive and time-consuming, so I'm hoping I don't have to drop the whole engine. I know you can take the timing cover off with the engine still on the bike, I have just never messed with timing in anything before. Wish me luck!
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Don't worry. Be happy! One thing at a time. If it ran well once, it can run well again, probably. :laughing4-giggles:
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Just soldered wires to the plate w/o the fuel sender unit on it, and it's drawing constant power. Hooked it up to the pump and voila, we have power to the pump. Constant power during riding - not when key is turned and bike isn’t on. Everything is good in the wiring.
Here's what's confusing me, rocket. You indicate that you soldered wires to the plate and had constant power. You hadn't connected to the pump yet so you weren't riding and the engine wouldn't have been running. Then, you seemed to hook up the pump and voila it worked. Constant power shouldn't have been at the wire unless the starter or engine were running. All I'm trying to understand is whether you've connected the correct wires to supply the pump with full voltage. I hate to be a Doubting Thomas concerning how you've wired stuff, so I'll be a Doubting Laitch.
I found another forum post that it could be a water pump, but I don’t know much about anything when it comes to these things.
You're gonna learn, rocket. :laughing1: Start your engine, get a screwdriver, put its handle next to your ear canal opening, place its blade or point against the water pump cover. You'll hear if the sound is coming from there. Put it up against the timing chain cover, and any other place to locate the sound. My recent favorite place to listen was an alternator. :laughing4-giggles:
Your video recording technique for capturing symptoms is useful and an example for others here to follow.
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Here's what's confusing me, rocket. You indicate that you soldered wires to the plate and had constant power. You hadn't connected to the pump yet so you weren't riding and the engine wouldn't have been running. Then, you seemed to hook up the pump and voila it worked. Constant power shouldn't have been at the wire unless the starter or engine were running. All I'm trying to understand is whether you've connected the correct wires to supply the pump with full voltage. I hate to be a Doubting Thomas concerning how you've wired stuff, so I'll be a Doubting Laitch.
You're gonna learn, rocket. :laughing1: Start your engine, get a screwdriver, put its handle next to your ear canal opening, place its blade or point against the water pump cover. You'll hear if the sound is coming from there. Put it up against the timing chain cover, and any other place to locate the sound. My recent favorite place to listen was an alternator. :laughing4-giggles:
Your video recording technique for capturing symptoms is useful and an example for others here to follow.
I totally understand you being a doubting Laitch, no argument from me - I just phrased that incorrectly. I’m the pump runs when the bike is running, it’s off when the bike is off (that includes when the key is in the on position and the bike is I started). Pump seems to be getting full power on my test ride and making that classic, sweet whine.
And the old fashioned mechanic stethoscope technique! I completely forgot about that. I’ll definitely be giving that a shot. The timing cover and pump cover are pretty close together, so at least I won’t need to go far :laughing4-giggles:
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The timing cover and pump cover are pretty close together, so at least I won’t need to go far :laughing4-giggles:
It's hot out there! I glad you're seeking opportunities to conserve your energy. Be sure to listen to the alternator, too—just for practice.
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Haha! Conserving energy is what I'm all about. I will definitely.
Also, an important symptom I just remembered and left out (only because I'd never seen the light before and the icon had worn off). The oil pressure light was turning on while I was riding, which is when I promptly returned home. Any light isn't a pleasant one, right?
I'm not sure if that narrows it down to the oil pump or not, but I'm brainstorming until I can work on it this weekend.
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The light means you are losing/lost oil pressure.
The fact you lost oil pressure could be either the cause of the noise or a result of it. I would avoid running the engine until I could identify the source of the noise and the oil idiot light.
First place to look would be the oil pump on the front of the engine.
You also need to check the oil filter. It may either be loose and leaking or plugged and not flowing oil. When was the last oil and filter change?
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The oil pressure switch grounds to illuminate the light.
Assuming that you have adequate oil in the motor, other possible causes of that light coming on are:
1 - The wire insulation is worn and grounding somewhere.
2 - The oil pressure switch has failed.
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As I found on my bikes with LED idiot lights, a good rainstorm will turn on the oil light.
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As I found on my bikes with LED idiot lights, a good rainstorm will turn on the oil light.
All of my Ks have had LEDs. Only on ONE out of 20 or so of them did I have that occur and it only glowed very dimly in really soggy weather.
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Well, I suppose the first step here is going to be draining the oil anyway. I'll inspect for any metal shavings/glitter with a magnet. After that, time to pop off the valve cover and the oil pump cover. Let's hope the oil is nice and clean with NO shavings!
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Well, I suppose the first step here is going to be draining the oil anyway.
Before that, tell us what the oil level is in the sight glass. After that, take off the oil filter cover and check if the oil filter is loose. After that, remove the oil filter and determine whether the filter has been installed with two gaskets instead of just one—one gasket on the oil filter itself and one left stuck to the engine's filter mounting flange after the removal of the previous filter. That eventually could cause pressure problems from the filter's loosening. After that, go metal detecting. :laughing4-giggles:
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Hah! Sounds good. Oil level is halfway up the sight glass cold, I just changed that and the filter two weeks ago. No double gaskets on the oil filter, confirmed
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Did you locate the source of the noise with your screwdroscope?
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The squealing noise has disappeared for now, and I'm not quite sure why or how. I was able to get in position with my highly-advanced noise-finding screwdroscope and find something knocking at me from the crank case side of the engine, however.
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I strongly agree with Gryph here, I would not crank or start the bike again, since the oil pressure light remains on.
Not sure what you mean by the engine knocked out. I think you're saying suddenly there was no power from the engine but the engine was still running, and that the oil pressure light came on. This could mean that the output shaft rivets have failed. Then the crankshaft would turn, but the engine output shaft wouldn't if it's in gear.
Yeah, that's definitely a good idea. It doesn't sound like it's getting any better :laughing4-giggles: It's not that there was no power, it's that there was a loss of power. It was basically like I wasn't getting the full range of power the bike had to offer. Not that it's much to begin with, but it seemed to be struggling.
I'm not sure what you mean by knocked out either. I mean there's literally a knock in my engine
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I deleted my previous post when I realised your brick is a k75 and I said to meyself "hey dumkopf, it's a K75 so it doesn't have output shaft rivets"
In post 37 when you said you got a squeal and knock, out of the engine, I was hearing that you got a squeal and knock out, of the engine. My mistake.
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The squealing noise has disappeared for now, and I'm not quite sure why or how. I was able to get in position with my highly-advanced noise-finding screwdroscope and find something knocking at me from the crank case side of the engine, however.
You'll need to download the K100/K75 2V manual from this site. Having a copy of both Chiltons and Haynes can also help to clarify procedures. Haynes is a free downloadable at a few online sites. You'll need to get a tube of gasket-forming silicone. I use Permatex Black RTV but everyone with experience seems to have a favorite. You'll eventually be removing covers—crankcase, timing chain, Hall sensor, camshaft—to track what might be wrong. When replacing a cover, there must be absolutely no oil on the mating surfaces of the cover and engine. The gasket silicone must cure according to instructions—no shortcuts.
My first check would be of all the spark plug connections. The spark plugs should have terminal nuts on them and fit tightly on the wires. The secondary (thick) wire connections at the coils should be free of oxidation on both male and female terminals. The connections should be tight. The primary (thin) wire connection to each coil should unoxidized and tight. The battery terminal connections should be immovably tight. The battery ground strap connection should be clean, unoxidized and immovably tight. After all that has been truly verified—not just verified via fond recollection—the Hall sensor plate should be checked to verify that it hasn't loosened to skew the timing. These are the simplest places to go first as far as I'm concerned.
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Also, an important symptom I just remembered and left out (only because I'd never seen the light before and the icon had worn off). The oil pressure light was turning on while I was riding, which is when I promptly returned home.
If the light has never been on before, I'm thinking this could be the temperature light, and if the oil light icon has worn off, I spose the others are too (maybe the alt. light)
Are you sure it's the oil light that came on?
Just double checking.
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If the light has never been on before, I'm thinking this could be the temperature light, and if the oil light icon has worn off, I spose the others are too (maybe the alt. light)
Are you sure it's the oil light that came on?
Just double checking.
All good - definitely the oil light. Cross referenced w/ pics of other instrument lights
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There are a few things that can trigger the oil light. Among them, the most common is a clogged or defective oil pressure switch. Replacing or cleaning that is uncomplicated. Another is a clogged oil pickup tube screen. The oil pan needs to be removed to examine that.
Get a move on with the simple stuff as outlined. If worse comes to worst, a lot of the more complicated stuff usually can be done with the engine still in the frame.
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If the insulation on the oil switch wire wears and grounds inadvertently then that can also cause the oil light to come on.
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Alright guys, the work is starting this weekend. I've had no time to even check a simple thing. I drained the oil today because I'll need to do it anyway, and luckily no glitter or metal shavings have come out (and I'm guessing that's a good sign).
I'm going to be going through the list of things here one at a time. With no metal shavings, can I assume that means there's nothing catastrophic damaging the engine yet? I won't be riding it any time soon, I'm just curious.
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My first check would be of all the spark plug connections. The spark plugs should have terminal nuts on them and fit tightly on the wires. The secondary (thick) wire connections at the coils should be free of oxidation on both male and female terminals. The connections should be tight. The primary (thin) wire connection to each coil should unoxidized and tight. The battery terminal connections should be immovably tight. The battery ground strap connection should be clean, unoxidized and immovably tight. After all that has been truly verified—not just verified via fond recollection—the Hall sensor plate should be checked to verify that it hasn't loosened to skew the timing. These are the simplest places to go first as far as I'm concerned.
Hey Laitch, I just checked all of these out. All connections are good - terminal caps are on the spark plugs, both connections to all ignition coils are good. I used a wire brush on the flat connector tab under the coil to the right for good measure.
- Spark plugs are tight and clean
- Battery leads are tight
- Coil connections, primary and secondary, are tight and clean (M&F)
- Battery ground strap is clean and tight
I have no idea where the Hall Effect sensor plate is - I can't seem to find it in my Clymer or really anywhere. Do you have a nifty pic or a nice description to where I can find it?
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I have no idea where the Hall Effect sensor plate is - I can't seem to find it in my Clymer or really anywhere. Do you have a nifty pic or a nice description to where I can find it?
The Hall sensor assembly is behind a cover at the front of the engine. Below are listed a few sources for some illustrations; however, maybe you shouldn't get involved with that yet.
Let's take a deep breath.
Does the engine start and idle? Does the oil light shut off when it starts and idles? At ≥1200 rpm does the oil light flicker after it starts and idles?
In my electronic version of Clymer:
Hall effect sensor cover—Fig. 147, p. 68
Hall effect sensor— Fig. 144, p.69
Hall effect sensor cover—inside view, Fig. 145, p 70
Hall effect sensor cover—Figure 9, item #2, p. 89
In the BMW workshop manual downloadable from Motobrick:
Section 11–Engines, page 11-39
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Before I drained the oil, I would start the bike up and the oil light would be on a few seconds after it would start up.
Bike did start and idle, but it wouldn't start every time - kind of like it wasn't getting enough power to start. Then on my next attempt crank, it would start right up (with the knock and squeal). Battery was fully charged and terminals were tight
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You should check the function of the oil pressure switch. With the ignition switch turned to On, what happens with the light when you remove the connector from the switch and not let it touch the block? What happens with the light when you remove the connector from the switch and ground it to the block?
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Hey Laitch, I'll do that today for sure.
I actually know where the oil switch is! That'll be next on the list. I did pull the cover to the oil pump since I was curious and wanted to change the coolant anyway, and found this gunk on the impeller. It doesn't seem to come off easily, also the shaft won't move. Removing the oil pressure switch is next.
Will keep you updated!
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I actually know where the oil switch is! That'll be next on the list.
Good work! A seizing pump will lower oil pressure and is likely to make some compelling noises as it fails. You'll need to disassemble the pump completely to inspect its shaft and should replace its seals and, likely, its impeller. Post some photos of the parts.
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Definitely will! Should the impeller spin freely while the pump is attached to the bike?
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No.
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Here’s the oil pressure switch connector. Looks suspicious, as it has a female connector in the cable sleeve, but a round connector on the switch.
Looks clean to me, but I have no idea how this thing was mounted
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A spade connector on the end of the wire slips sideways onto the disc terminal of the oil pressure switch. Take another look and post another photo, but the root of your problem is likely to be the pump and you need to get various instructional resources and tools together to start disassembling it.
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Hey Laitch, got the pics and a short video up on my google drive here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1a8pCH-tGgiuO_ffTeoPNSE__DvTORSBa?usp=sharing
Everything looks pretty clean, I was able to spin it once I pulled everything apart. The seals don't look great, and the shaft doesn't either, but it's not ultra worn down.
Let me know if you wanna see more angles.
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Everything looks pretty clean, I was able to spin it once I pulled everything apart.
I don't understand this statement. You and I seem to have differing definitions of pretty clean. :laughing4-giggles: Clean off the shaft and post a photo of it. The condition of it is hidden by grease and sludge. Clean down to bare metal wherever possible. Verify this: when the pump was removed from the engine, you could not spin the impeller?
If this were my project I'd replace the impeller using the recommended seal and spacer kit at Max BMW.
It would be helpful to post photos using Motobrick's Gallery feature instead of Google drive. We've had too many useful photos that were posted from offsite sources just disappear. The Gallery feature allows the photos to be inserted into relevant text when desired. You can insert photos into text from your Google drive, too, using the Mona Lisa icon. It's easier on the readers to see images with text.
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Sure! I'm working on figuring out the gallery - uploaded a few pics to a category I made but I'm guessing they need a bit more time to upload.
In the meantime, here's the shaft without the slime on it :laughing1: there's definitely some pitting there, but the shaft seems to have its original shape. I've watched some videos where they're basically concave!
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Verify this: when the pump was removed from the engine, you could not spin the impeller?
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Verify this: when the pump was removed from the engine, you could not spin the impeller?
I could spin the impeller once it was removed from the engine, it seemed to spin fine
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Ok, the unit wasn't seized after all; it was your description of events that was problematic. :laughing4-giggles: Clean and test the oil pressure switch while you're resting.
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Haha! Sorry - I thought I was being clear but I'll take a few more moments when I type.
Oil pressure switch is clean. When I turn the bike on, the oil pressure light immediately turns on. But I'm not starting the bike, as there's obviously no fluids in it.
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Haha! Sorry - I thought I was being clear . . .When I turn the bike on, the oil pressure light immediately turns on. But I'm not starting the bike, as there's obviously no fluids in it.
I thought I was being clear, too. :laughing4-giggles:
The tests in Reply #68 neither indicate nor require starting the engine. You do the tests just with the ignition switch turn to On. Review. In fact, the oil pressure switch doesn't even need to be installed in the pump for you to test it thoroughly. There are also videos galore describing testing.