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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Cherokee2072 on September 20, 2020, 08:25:49 PM
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Please excuse me if I have missed a previous post or posted in the wrong section.
My bike is an 87 k75S. Bought from a 10 year nap.
I cleaned the fuel system, replaced all hoses.
Air intake Hose, Air filter, crankcase vent tube (checked throttle body tubes) replaced.
Cleaned injectors (new O-rings).
New fuel pump, lines and filter.
New temp sensor.
Cleaned and verified air meter operating in spec with multimeter.
Adjusted TPS.
The bike started and ran great while on the lift. Test drive in the driveway, zero issues, ran great all thru rpm range. Finished buttoning up brakes, lines, tires etc.
2 miles into first trip today it died. No fuel pump. No power to #6 fuse. It blew the fuel pump relay.
Looked over the harness, couldn’t find a short. Replaced relay. Started and ran but would stall out after a few minutes or upon revving over 3k. Replaced the fuel pump suspecting a short in the pump had caused the relay to blow (had a spare). Same issue.
Has anyone had a similar issue? I’ve been thru the troubleshooting chart thru the course of bringing it back from the grave. Not sure where to double back or turn next. Hopefully it’s something obvious that I’m just too tired to see. Thanks in advance for your help!
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To be honest I haven’t gotten that far into it. No click made me suspect, replaced, click and start. I assumed, as with a temperamental car I had in the past, that a short in the pump or harness caused it to go. Or it could have been 34 years of age and and it was just it’s time to die. I will dive in with the multi-meter and give you a more detailed diagnosis of why it no longer works, but alas it is no longer functional. My hope was someone with more experience with The Jetronic system may have experienced a similar behavior in the past.
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Check that grounding points are clean (under tank central and transmission-to-battery). A dirty ignition switch could cause the intermittent symptoms you describe.
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Grounds were cleaned as part of the general maintenance, the switch was not. I saw the write-up in another post. I will tackle that today and report back. Thank you!
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I will dive in with the multi-meter . . . My hope was someone with more experience with The Jetronic system may have experienced a similar behavior in the past.
You're describing symptoms that could be caused by several differing sources including the electronic control units themselves. Download the troubleshooting guide from Repair Guidance (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11295.msg98535.html#msg98535) then run the ignition control unit and fuel injection control unit diagnostic tests.
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Update
Cleaned/lubricated the switch, looked to have been done before as well. No flickering or voltage fluctuations, also no change in symptoms. Went back to the diagnostics. I used this before when bringing the bike back from its sleep, very great tool. Fuel pressure test shows initial pressure a little low 32psi and it drops off quickly to teens. Opened the tank and I am getting a strong stream back into the tank from the FPR when the switch is turned on. Much stronger than previously. I suspect my pressure relief valve has stuck in open position creating an open loop. Thanks for all of the input to date.
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Thanks for the update.
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Pulled the fuel rail just to verify all injectors firing as they should, they are. Applied clamp to the outlet line on the rail to simulate regulator pressure and the bike started and revved pretty normally. Ordering a new Pressure Regulator and will update the board later on. Thanks again.
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***Update***
To begin at the beginning. All rubber parts have been checked and what was suspect replaced to remove vacuum leaks from the equation. I have rechecked the air flow sensor, temp sensor (new), fuel pump (new), FPR (new), plugs, and wires. In going back thru Bert Vogel guide I found a disparity in the replacement pump relay I had and the original I replaced on the day I was stranded. The location of the 30 and 86 blades are reversed. My fault for not verifying more closely. The interesting thing is the bike starts and cranks with this relay, pump operated as it should coming on with the switch, but loses fuel pressure quickly. So I pick up the 318i relay from NAPA today (Alternative List Replacement) verify it to the original, and when I plug in the new relay the clock resets and the fuel pump kicks on with key out and kill switch off? The clock issue happened on the day of the initial relay failure when it died on the highway. I have disassembled the switch and did not find any visible issues at all, clean and lights work well with no flickering. The grounds under the tank and battery grounds have all been cleaned. Possibly a wire in the loom from the key switch grounding out?
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Are you absolutely certain about the FI relay you replaced (BMW 318i). Does your replacement have two 87 terminals and zero 87A terminals? To be precise, 30 is the common, and 87 is a normally open terminal. 87A is a normally closed terminal. With the relay unpowered, there should be no continuity on any of the 87 terminals to pin 30. With the relay energized, there will be continuity on both 87 terminals to pin 30. Use an ohmmeter to verify this configuration.
This is what you are looking for:
(https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/user/Relay_with_twin_output.png)
Your symptoms indicate to me that your relay has an 87A pin that is routing constant power through Fuse 6 to the fuel pump. That's why it's always on.
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Another thought, since the wrong relay didn't turn the pump on, the previous owner may have swapped the wires to suit. Therefore the correct relay turns the pump on without the key if 85 has earth without the key, which I doubt) Check that the red and green/yellow wires have not been swapped.
The wrong relay should work I think, but put extra load on the kill switch, which should be beefy enough to cope anyway.
Does the fuel relay really effect the clock? How? I don't think it should.
What's the relay part number? I think it should be 61.36-8 373 700, with a light green cover.
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The relay that stopped working originally was the OEM part from 1986. So the OEM wiring wasn’t fussed with. Verifying the continuity of the replacement relay. If that is correct I will keep looking for an open/unwanted ground. Next step is to order a relay from EME and wait it out. I have had luck using the alternate parts list and NAPA up til now, but this experience has me going back to an OEM only slant for electrical replacements. The clock part has me scratching my head. It happened the day it quit. I chalked it up to pulling fuses and relays trying to make sure nothing had wiggled loose. Now I’m fairly sure it is associated with this relay or a related ground issue somehow. Thanks again for all the assistance.
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Air horn relays have this configuration.
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RBM you were correct. The Napa part 318i relay purchased does have an 87a. Purchasing a relay from EME, still working on finding a possible ground issue as I believe that may have caused my initial problem and I don’t want to be stranded again, thanks for the great advice.
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Too late after a long day, I mis read at first. I am clear in your thought process now. I did check the old relay, I don’t believe it will be coming back to life. Will go through the wiring while I wait for a new one to make its way out to me. Thanks again.
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Oh, I had been working backward based off the troubleshooting page from the workshop section since day 1...
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TMG: The horn and load shed are standard 4-pin 1 Form A auto relays and can be swapped. The FI relay is a 5-pin 2 Form A auto relay and has no equivalent in the relay box.
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👍. Again, thank you for your time and input. Much appreciated!
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Cherokee: The clock probably reset when the system got loaded down plugging in the relays live. That plugging action might have pulled the power down towards 0 volts for a few milliseconds (brown-out). The clock will reset if the reset pin on the clock IC is grounded which might have happened with the brown-out. You can simulate this by pulling fuse 3 for just a second; time will reset.
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Prob not a short, no fuse blew. Possibly just weak power. Check the wiring is fully pushed home on the relays socket. Clean and solid. If loose it could lose contact on a bump for example. With the relay removed, push on the sockets in the relay holder with a small screwdriver to see that they are tight, and don't move down. Or wiggle the wiring, or look for a weak spot.
I probably shouldn't say this, but if you bridged both 87 sockets with a wire, you might be able to use the horn relay, just as a temporary testing measure.
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I probably shouldn't say this, but if you bridged both 87 sockets with a wire, you might be able to use the horn relay, just as a temporary testing measure.
Mmmmm, maybe not ... Ampere rating on the relay contact may or may not be large enough to take the current draw.
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True, hopefully just a loose connector to clip back in, and nothing wrong with the first fuel injection relay.
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Too many ex-hippys on this site :afro:
Amazon Lime FI Relay (https://www.amazon.com/OES-Genuine-Relay-select-models/dp/B001G7INQ4/ref=pd_bxgy_3/130-1178079-3511547?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001G7INQ4&pd_rd_r=8d87f832-7b9f-4bd9-9053-a98b2b8cae7f&pd_rd_w=FjiTQ&pd_rd_wg=aGFqj&pf_rd_p=4e3f7fc3-00c8-46a6-a4db-8457e6319578&pf_rd_r=6KNZE5007QPXXD82YEAD&psc=1&refRID=6KNZE5007QPXXD82YEAD)
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/5332-280620144435-3254695.jpeg)
FI relay 5blade 61368373700
Load shed 4blade 61311459677 Relay, K75 - K1100LT; R80R - R100MYS. This relay is assigned to multiple uses.
Including: fan, starting load shed, horn, Motronic, and fuel pump on selective models.
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So to confuse me further, my repair manual says the FI is the far right relay. Anyway, is swapped the right relays this morning with no change, so both are functional. Fuel pump still kicks on, horn still works on either. So the load shed is what was causing the pump to be non-op or full on.
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And I did verify all connectors are clean and tight, wiring good in the box.
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So to confuse me further, my repair manual says the FI is the far right relay. Anyway, is swapped the right relays this morning with no change, so both are functional. Fuel pump still kicks on, horn still works on either. So the load shed is what was causing the pump to be non-op or full on.
another member of the VW Microbus club :afro:
Some links for your K journey. Good Luck
Factory Service Manual, Torque Specs & Riders Manual download from the world famous Motobrick library (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11014.0.html)
Just bought a 2V (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,370.0.html)
Just bought a 4V (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,465.msg960.html#msg960)
Check parts compatibility with BMW MAX Microfiche, BOBS BMW, REAL OEM
https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/PartsFiche.aspx
https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/PartsSearch.aspx
https://parts.maxbmw.com/BMW___BmwMotorradK.html
https://www.bobsbmw.com/store/microfiche/BrowseSeries.aspx
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do?kind=M&arch=1
https://www.ascycles.com/BMW-Motorcycle-Parts-Fiche
Cross reference parts like Bosch pn#'s, etc.... http://partsplusecat.com/
No spaces in the part number
Parts Vendors
https://www.beemerboneyard.com/
https://www.capitalcycle.com/
https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/
https://www.tills.de/
Headlight relay stuff if you chose to add one
https://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=268.0
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,4962.msg30932.html
http://culayer.com/product/matchbox-headlight-relay/
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html Eastern Beaver site is a great reference for electrical connectors,plugs, etc...
http://www.k100-forum.com/
http://www.kforum-tech.com/Tech-page.html
http://www.kforum-tech.com/electrical/EFI/bike-wont-start-EN.htm
http://www.kforum-tech.com/Downloads/electrical/diagrams/interactive_diagrams.htm
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/k100tshoot/K100.Troubleshoot.Start.2018.pdf
http://kbikeparts.com/index.htm
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/ckb.new2k.htm
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/ckb.tech.toc.htm
http://www.eilenberger.net/K75S/IgnitionSwitch/
http://www.verrill.com/moto/moto.shtml
this site has a lot of good info and breakdown pictures in the tech and tech resources sections for K1100 alot of the parts are on K75 & K100
http://www.k11og.org/forum/index.php?sid=2df953dde5715fd9001fbe69edec5ad0
https://ibmwr.org/index.php/k-bike-tech-articles/
This site has all kinds of technical specifications on all the BMW models http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/mechanicalpages/kseriesmechanical.htm
http://largiader.com
http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/index.html Toshi ABS site
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Thanks Volador for the comprehensive list.
I removed my relay holders again just to verify vs the wiring harness/schematic. The 5 pin relay on the left (at least on my 1987 k75s) that is extremely stock, is the FI relay. That at least makes me feel a little less insane in my explanation for what gremlin I am chasing down. TMG, your schematic as it refers to this particular motorcycle stands as correct. Thanks!
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The relay box drawing in my Clymer manual (2007 edition) is wrong. The drawing in your earlier post is right, especially if it matches your bike. If you have ABS or something odd, it will be different again.
I know you said there was no power "to" the fuse, but if no power at the fuse, replace the fuse. Prob good to replace regardless.
The horn relay shouldn't effect the pump, if it really does, that points to an earth problem I think.
When it next fails, I'd test with a test light (a substantial one) to find where the power fail is.
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I verified the actual wiring from the socket onward to eliminate any confusion. 100% confident in the FI relay location being correct at left hand position now. Regarding the fuse issue. That was due to the faulty relay. The issue now has been that the replacement relay was not the proper replacement. Right one is on the way. I’m still at a loss as to what started the issue in the first place. Everything was well sorted and The bike was running pretty much perfectly. Cannot find any rubbed wires, loose connections or corrosion. Hopefully it was just time for the old relay to pass into the afterlife and all will be well.
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Check for a click if you connect a battery to pins 85 and 86, and give enough power (or at least continuity) from 30 to both 87 pins.
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No click on the old one. New one doesn’t have the correct internal bypass so it seems to be killing the pump circuit after the bike starts and it loses fuel pressure. Going to update after I install the new (correct) relay.
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OK, looking good.
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Update....
Received the correct spec relay today. Started, ran perfectly. Backed out of the shop. Before the end of the drive, new relay is gone. I am pulling it and testing tonight to find where the problem is which will hopefully lead me to what keeps eating them. I have replaced the new fuel pump with a new fuel pump, verified grounds and checked for any frayed/rubbed wires. If anyone has experienced this please chime in or make me an offer, lol.
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If you haven't performed the ignition control unit and fuel injection control unit tests that were recommended back in Reply #4, now might be the time to do them. Post the results here that are not within the specified ranges.
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I have initially, and they were in range. I suspect I will have to purchase another relay to perform the tests again as the system will not power up properly without it.
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One of the purposes of those tests is determin malfunction of either of the control units. According to your results, they're ok.
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Laitch I’m leaning towards a possible short under the tank or in the sending unit. It runs perfectly until it doesn’t, lol. No miss across rpm range or cold/hot issues with idle so I believe all FI systems are functioning properly, it’s a simple short causing the issue. Hopefully.
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Is the failure in the relay's coil or the contacts?
Did the coil burn out causing an open circuit so it can't close the contacts? It's hard to believe a 12v relay coil would burn out on a 12v electrical system. You need to check the continuity across the coil.
Or was it a heavy current that may have burned the contacts or possibly melted a solder joint in the relay?
An autopsy on the failed relays is a good place to start troubleshooting. It's the only way to know where you should be looking.
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If it passes the click test out of the bike, maybe it's just a failed earth (or power) On the bike.
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In the process of disassembling both defective ones to sort it out now TMG. The issue that prevented proper running with another relay didn’t lie in the coil, it was with pin(s) 87. I left my electrical engineering degree in my other pants, so I’m reading up on this as I go. I’m much better with points and a magneto than Jetronic. But I am learning to read quickly.
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Did you have continuity between pins 85 and 86? What is the resistance across them in ohms?
Can you apply 12v to pins 85 & 86 with the relay out of the bike? When you do do you get a very quiet click? Do you then get continuity across pin 30 to the 87 pins?
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TMG I am getting 105 resistance and I do get a click across 85/86. No resistance from 30 to either 87 pin.
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If a heavy load is the cause to be frying the relays, why a fuse is not blowing? THere must be a fuse feeding pin 30. Can you check the rating of that fuse compared to the factory spec?
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Okay, the coil seems to be good. I'm guessing that you are reading 105 ohms which means that the coil is getting about 125ma which sounds about right.
When you say no resistance between 30 and 87 do you mean it's infinity or is it 0.0 ohms? When the coil is energized the resistance should be about 3-4 ohms or less, depending on how good your ohmmeter is. My Harbor Freight meter never reads less than 3.5 ohms when the probes are connected together.
Another thing to check would be the resistance between the 87 terminals in the socket and ground. That might help us see how much current is going through them. That would give an idea of whether the loads on the contacts are shorted or open circuits. Make sure the + lead of the meter is on the 87 pin and the - is on the ground.
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Alex, I was going to ask that same question. It would be odd, though, that high current would be burning contacts rated for 30 amps. Still, it wouldn't hurt to check the fuse ratings.
I need to check the schematics, but I'm starting to suspect the tank connector is whack.
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Sorry guys, wife is under the weather, I had to abandon the cause. The fuse is a 10 amp, without looking at my manual I believe the OEM was 7.5. I hope that wouldn’t cause the sky to fall but the way this week/month/year has gone I wouldn’t doubt it. I’ll get back to it tomorrow evening and dig deeper. I did get to look at the wiring diagram and that 87 circuit basically runs the gamut of every Red/green wire from the fuse block one one side of the relay to the injectors/tps/all the way through on the back end.
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@alexg: There is no fuse on the Red wire going to Pin 30 of the FI relay. So, if there is a large load (i.e. short circuit) on one of the circuits being fed from pin 87, then there is nothing to limit the current flowing through the relay contacts.
@cherokee: Your task should be to isolate all the circuits fed by the FI relay and start searching for a short to ground. It's probable that the high current situation may have melted insulation on the wiring inside the harness.
Pull fuse 6, pull the temp sensing module from its socket and and disconnect the tank connector. Start testing the continuity between the Green/White wire and ground on that isolated circuitry. You're looking for a short to ground. You shouldn't read any shorts with all this circuitry disconnected. Once you've verified the harness wiring, then start testing the fuel pump. It is highly probable that the insulation on the wires inside the tank have hardened and deteriorated. That may cause short circuiting.
Pull the connector that joins the injectors to the harness, pull all injector connectors and the EFI computer. Do the same tests for shorts as above.
To test the relay contacts, you need to first energize the relay coil, to cause the contacts to close. Then measure the resistance between 30 and 87 (both 87's individually).
It's possible that you might be able to resurrect one of the relays by opening it up and seeing if the contacts are not too far gone to be reconditioned.
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@RBM, Thank you Robert. Very much what the wiring diagram pointed toward. Your experience probably saved me hours in simplifying the process. Definitely a weekend project. I did replace the pump wires when I installed the new pump during the rejuvenation process, sending unit wiring is suspect. I’ll let you know what the culprit is.
Thanks
Kevin
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You can take the search in baby steps. With the relay out, pull the fuse. Unplug the tank.
Check the resistance between the #87 contacts on the relay socket and ground. It should be very high.
Check resistance between both #87 contacts and both contacts on the fuse socket. Only one contact on the relay socket and one contact on the fuse socket will have a low resistance between them. All the rest of the combinations should have a very high resistance.
Check the resistance between the fuse socket contacts and ground. It should be be very high on one of them(the feed from the relay #87) and at least a couple hundred ohms on the other.
Get back to us with the results of these checks, especially if any readings are not what was expected, and we'll figure out the rest of the troubleshooting.
Don't neglect the relay. Carefully pop the cover and check the operation and try cleaning the contacts with Deoxit. See if you can get the contacts to work.
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Finally had time to do these checks.
Front 87- no resistance to ground
Rear 87 254 resistance to ground
Front 87-Front #6 no resistance
Front 87-Rear #6. High resistance 700
Rear 87- Front #6 no resistance
Rear 87-Rear #6 no resistance
Front #6 to ground 350
Rear #6 to ground no resistance
I will say that even with cleaning I had too much difficulty getting a good reading from the fuse plugs. I am suspecting a loose connection in the wiring at the fuse connector, it looks good and nothing obviously visible, I will have to pull the fuse block out and look at the crimps/solder however it was connected. I’m going to give that a look over now.
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Verified the fuse block, all wiring and connections clean and tight.
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When you say no resistance, do you mean the resistance is zero ohms?
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I mean my ohm meter, which to be fair is a harbor freight very far from good unit, shows zero change in resistance from baseline on those contact points. On any setting on the meter.
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Does your HF meter show "OL" when it is turned on and not in use, and the same display is shown when you measure "no resistance"?
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It reads a 1. With the decimal point moving based on range, so I know it is functional.
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It reads a 1. With the decimal point moving based on range, so I know it is functional.
Oh, I wasn't challenging the functionality of your meter. I was probing to find out what you were observing while testing. Some meters show OL on the display when not in use, meaning Over Limit. When set to read resistance, that means resistance is too high for the meter to show or over the limit. In your case, the meter displays a 1. It means the same thing as OL.
The phrase no resistance to most electronics engineers means basically a short circuit connection is being measured; there is no resistance to the flow of electricity in essence. What you actually measured was open circuit or infinite resistance, I believe.
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Absolutely, and I appreciate the questions. I have fairly extensive mechanical skills that do not extend to FI systems. My hobby vehicles have been older cars/jeeps and carbureted motorcycles. FI systems and even electronic ignition are something I have avoided up til now for the most part. I suppose at almost 50 I have to learn...
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Another way to check for a short to fuse six is remove it and the FI relay. With your multimeter on 20 Volts at 30 and 87, you should read 0 Volts. If you read 12 Volts you have a short between the relay and the fuse. To check the other 87 pin remove the plug to the injector harness (under tank, left hand side) and repeat the test.
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On with relay disassembly. I can register a click on the latest relay that stopped starting the bike. When I opened it up there is no sign of corrosion on the contact points and I am registering resistance 730 ohm across the 87 contacts when the contact gap is closed manually. It appears to be working properly, at least from my limited knowledge. Short in the harness between the relay and fuse block? Disassembled the original relay, no burned points, but a lot of corrosion. I cleaned it, and got a weak click but it still gives a no start condition as the other relay. Tracing wires now, there are no obvious rubbed areas but a few hardened spots in the rubber casing that could possibly have been created by heat.
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The coil resistance seems correct and the fact that it operates is encouraging.
Use a contact cleaner and mild abrasive paper like 3000 grit wet-n-dry to recondition the contacts. They may appear to close but may still offer high resistance to current flow because of burning residue. The contacts should be smooth, very slightly crowned and bright metallic in colour. Test the continuity between the Pin 30 and Pin 87 terminals with the relay operating; it should be very low resistance, around 0.2 Ohms. Use a magnifying glass to look for residue on the faces of the contacts and get rid of any that may be there.
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Contacts cleaned and look good. Ohm meter set at 20k reads .02 on both the old and new relay. I did find a suspect splice in a wire that was under the frame rail over the air box. It leads to red/green and black feeder into the main harness. Pic is of the connector and unwrapped splice. It was taped, but poorly. Upon tracing this it goes to a mystery switch on my dash pad. 1st position left of the key. My bike has no heated grips or ABS. The flashers are clearly marked. Wires from this switch are gray and black and meet the red/green and black harness feed in what looks like a stock connection but I cannot find it on my schematic.
**addition***
Green/red and black according to what I can see are the altitude plug. Why on earth would that be wired to a switch?
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Where are you reading that .02K? What pins are you connecting to the meter?
When using a meter, it's best to use the lowest scale that doesn't read OL. Accuracy is a function of the full range of a given scale. Thus, the 200 ohm scale can be up to 100 times more accurate than the 20K scale.
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Good afternoon TMG,
That is across the 30 and 87 pins (both 87) with contacts closed on the relay.
Am I correct about that being the altitude plug someone connected to a switch btw?
Thanks
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.02K seems a bit high for the resistance across the contacts. Try a reading on a lower scale. You might need to clean them again. I've had good luck with Deoxit on a piece of paper. Wet the paper with the Deoxit and push and pull the paper between the contacts while gently pressing them together. Then a quick spritz of the Deoxit to flush anything that may be hanging in the gap.
It does look like the altitude plug. Is it above the coils on the left hand side of the bike? A previous owner may have had the bike in an area where they were constantly going above and below the 4000ft altitude and got tired of stopping to mess with the jumper.
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I will work with the contacts. I live in the Northwest NC at about 4000’. Previously the bike spent most of its life in the foothills, can’t imagine why, but it looks like that is what they did. It is the only wiring combination that makes sense with the diagram.
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Unplug that switch, that could be where your problem is. I'd check for a short there.
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Agreed. The Green/Red is power from the FI relay. If there is a short in that part of the wiring, it will contribute to your problem.
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The altitude plug's only discernible function seems to be to to make an infinitesimal reduction in the bike's contribution to the rising sea levels. You can remove and ignore it.
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I have disconnected the switch to the altitude plug. Relay isn’t clicking when installed back in the bike, but does when power applied directly to 85 and 86. I have constant power to 30 in the plug. 86 is powering from the switch, so that would mean a ground issue from the ecu pin 7 to pin 85 in the relay plug preventing the relay from operating if I am reading the flow chart correctly.
So, as I am reading this my ignition control may be bad, and intermittently working/not, or I may simply have a fault in the wire between the ignition box and the relay plug.
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Check the continuity of the wire. Wiggle it around to see if it's intermittent.
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Check the state of the Kill switch, making sure that it is not off.
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Kill switch is on. Checked it 2x just to be sure. Disconnected battery. Pulled the tank, went to the ignition box . Pulled the plug and went directly into pin 7 of the plug with test light probe. Inserted test blade into 85 on relay plug. Applied 12 v and grounded back to test light. Strong light and I cannot make it go out manipulating the wire. So the problem would appear to be either the ignition box or whatever controls the signal to ground pin 7 from the ignition box. However this was tested before, and was working at that time, at least twice. So it has to be an intermittent problem, but as of yet I haven’t been able to find the exact source. Possibly the ground fault to the unneeded switch created a problem elsewhere...
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***Update***
Finally had time to get back to the Brick. I replaced the CDI, which gave me a different issue (no spark). Spent 3 hours working back through the troubleshooting chart testing the ecm and CDI. I believe that was the culprit but is a defective part in a different manner since I did not have the no spark issue before replacing the CDI. As much as I loved the K the short ride I did get in on it I believe this one is not meant to be. I thank you all for the expertise, patience and extensive knowledge base you are willing to share. Regretfully, I will be parting this one out. I will list it on the sale board here first before going to eBay with it. I have precious little time to ride, and while I enjoy maintaining my own bikes, this one seems to have a gremlin I cannot chase down. Not sure I would ever trust it for a 3 state Saturday ride.
Thank you all again!