Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 12:02:32 PM
both times it has started and ran great
Then after about a mile it dies and wont start, gas flows but no spark
Ive walkes it home twice, then waited over night, and it starts right up
-anyone have any ideas
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 08, 2020, 12:17:47 PM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
Literally there is no spark
It just fired up
Im not ready to go for another mile ride and the push home
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 12:46:08 PM
this morning it has fired right up
if Ï go for a very short ride it will die,
then fuel but no spark
Ï am not ready to do the same thing again
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 08, 2020, 12:47:19 PM
Is the engine still cold when it shuts down?
If you pull the plugs out and dry them, will the engine start?
Are the spark plugs black and sooty?
Post by: Laitch on July 08, 2020, 01:04:11 PM
Ï go for a very short ride it will die, then fuel but no sparkDo you intend to check the frame ground connections for corrosion and tightness, battery connections for corrosion and tightness, the coil wires and terminals for corrosion and fit, the individual coil outputs, and tight connections on both the ignition control unit and the Jetronic connector, or have you already done that?
Post by: Martin on July 08, 2020, 01:49:51 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: Chaos on July 08, 2020, 02:42:15 PM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 02:44:03 PM
when it stalls, it is as if gas was shut off.
Both times it stalled a bit after fan came on. Ï checked for any water leaks and didn’t see any. A heated hall sensor would make sense. I’ll try the heat gun on the sensor while it’s running method now.
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 03:15:41 PM
Post by: Chaos on July 08, 2020, 04:23:37 PM
Post by: daveson on July 08, 2020, 06:04:32 PM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 06:13:00 PM
Post by: daveson on July 08, 2020, 06:17:53 PM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 06:52:17 PM
it’s so important to keep the body & brain looking & working well !!!
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 10:34:52 PM
60f in Australia today - LUCKY
it was 105 here today and i’ve been in the F*ing garage
Ï should be riding sooner or later
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 08, 2020, 11:15:43 PM
Post by: Laitch on July 08, 2020, 11:44:50 PM
when it stalls, it is as if gas was shut off.It's probably also like the electricity was shut off, too. :laughing4-giggles: If it shuts off again when the fan starts, I might be tracing the fan wiring.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 09, 2020, 08:21:01 AM
when it stalls, it is as if gas was shut off.
Both times it stalled a bit after fan came on.
When I shut off the fuel to an engine it stumbles to a stop. Is that what yours did? So, did it stumble to a stop, or did it shut off suddenly?
It's almost impossible for the fan to come on after 1 mile. How long are you letting it idle before you go for a ride? From the time you started the engine, how long does it take to shut down? Is it the same every time?
Post by: daveson on July 09, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
You got any water?
Post by: Laitch on July 09, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
You got any water?If you mean sufficient coolant in the radiator and its reservoir, that's a good question needing an accurate answer. 112350 Does the temperature light come on before the fan starts, when the fan starts or after the fan starts?
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 09, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
i’ll go for a ride in a bit
today Ï will time it from startup & pay close attention to when fan starts, my radiator is full and catch can is half full, fan wiring is just the plug connected. It’s actually kind of nice expecting trouble, Ï won’t go far at all. Ï should be back in an hour or so and post my findings.
Ç
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 09, 2020, 03:46:48 PM
When/if Ï have trouble today, what should Ï be checking. Before, it wouldn’t spark for basically rest of day so Ï should have plenty of time to go through what Ï need to. I’ve seen some sort of trouble shooting guide here a while back. Would someone please post a link. Alright, i’ll be outta here in 20min
Post by: Laitch on July 09, 2020, 03:52:07 PM
I’ve seen some sort of trouble shooting guide here a while back.Type troubleshooting guide into the search box at the top of the page, select entire forum then press Search.
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 09, 2020, 04:08:17 PM
it’s nice having the sight on the side of block ;)
Post by: daveson on July 09, 2020, 05:55:01 PM
Post by: daveson on July 09, 2020, 06:15:47 PM
Note to self for the one hundredth time, do the quick easy stuff first.
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 09, 2020, 07:43:05 PM
Ï started it, let it warm for a min & then drove 1/4 mi stopped and put a gallon of super. Then drove around neighborhood for about 15 min, 2nd & 3rd gear. Then it died, as if something was just turned off. It wouldn’t fire. The red light with triangle in middle of dash is on now. Ï did have bottle of ice water to cool the hall sensor. Ï pushed it home, maybe 1/4 mile. This was all maybe 2hrs ago. It’s in front, Ï went out a little while ago; same deal, gas is flowing but no spark. The one thing Ï did notice is that red light in dash is on when Ï turn key on. I’ll let it sit for a few hrs and try again?!
kind of makes me miss my ZX10
Post by: Laitch on July 09, 2020, 08:08:35 PM
The one thing Ï did notice is that red light in dash is on when Ï turn key on.On a moto without ABS in the USA, the sole purpose of that light is to indicate the condition of the brake and tail light bulbs. To shut it off, you squeeze the front brake hand lever and push the rear brake pedal. If the brake light and tail light bulbs work, the light will turn off. If it doesn't turn off, then check those bulbs for function.
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 09, 2020, 10:51:08 PM
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 10, 2020, 09:43:50 AM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 10, 2020, 12:32:21 PM
So this morning Ï tried to fire and it made a quick rumble, and now won’t start. That’s newish. Anyway, i’ll put it on lift today and clean the two units and go through through troubleshooting guide Ï downloaded yesterday. Ï wish myself good luck, Im gonna keep after this until something happens
Post by: alabrew on July 10, 2020, 12:54:29 PM
Heat also brings to mind expansion and that some connection is opening when it gets hot, finding it is another matter. :laughing4-giggles:
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 11, 2020, 12:50:16 AM
to answer a previous question, yes radiator is full and catch can 1/2
Hopefully I’ll have it all back together and riding down the street by noon, maybe before triple digit temps
Post by: volador on July 11, 2020, 05:21:50 PM
don't know your past history of this 85 K100 other then the engine swap
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/5332-110720174303-3276349.jpeg)
1) Do you have the 'vacuum or pressure switch' found mounted on the back of the throttle bodies
If present unplug and tape connector somewhere to harness
Plug port on throttle bodies #1
No longer needed
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=8494.0 (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=8494.0)
https://www.k100-forum.com/t15097-what-is-this (https://www.k100-forum.com/t15097-what-is-this)
2) Is the fuel pressure regulator connected properly?
check hoses to the Fuel Pressure Regulator found mounted behind the throttle bodies
1-vacuum hose from throttle bodies to the bottom FPR
2-middle hose from petrol fuel injection fuel rail
3-top hose to petrol tank return line
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/5332-210620134257-3245189.jpeg)
3) need to ensure the tank venting is working properly not obstructed, discharge hoses are connected or "Air Accumulator Cup" is present & hose connected to it routed down the backside of right footpeg plate
possibly have the emissions check valve on the tank vent port/hose which is no longer needed and the engine block may or may not have the tubing/stud port circled below
Picture below you may remove/omit the tubing and gray check valve and cap off the tubing nipple/stub on the front of the block under the radiator shroud.
Or leave rubber tubing and gray check valve in place and disconnect from tank vent and plug rubber tubing with a bolt or suitable hardware.
This was BMW evapoative emission compliance of the time but later removed.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/5332-010320105318-2761577.png)
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/5332-010320105320-2761708.jpeg)
Service Bulletin 2228 http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,4984.0.html
During moto use its possible for petrol and fumes to be expelled from tank especially when full. Sloshing petrol can be sucked up into the tubing vent and expelled under tank pressure.
Exterior petrol tank bottom has 2 tubing nipple piped into the tank for petrol fume vent and the water/rain drain collected from around petrol gas cap.
K100 may or may not have the air accumulator cup 16132307467 installed to collect any expelled petrol or water from tank nipples with 1 rubber hose connected and routed down
to lower right footpeg plate.
Or instead 2 rubber hoses will be connected direct to the petrol tank tubing nipples if there is no air accumulator cup. Again hoses routed down to lower right footpeg plate.
The hole at 6:30 is the water drain. The notch in the petrol tank cap has to line up to that hole. The indicated tubing is the tank vent.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/5332-140420012429-29971812.png)
1985 K100 petrol tank bottom
forward tubing/stub is tank vent
rear tubing/stub- petrol cap rain drain
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/5332-010320112521-2764652.jpeg)
AIR ACCUMULATOR
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-081019085159.jpeg)
AIR ACCUMULATOR LOCATION
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-081019085251.png)
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 11, 2020, 08:20:40 PM
Post by: daveson on July 11, 2020, 08:31:07 PM
If not, going to earlier posts, the fan coming on before shutdown, and after one mile, is a strong sign of a false temperature signal. I think I have read that the ECU (or EFI?) shuts down the engine when it detects overheating, to prevent damage, not sure though, can't seem to get this from the wiring diagram (maybe later models)
Post by: volador on July 11, 2020, 10:10:53 PM
If your lacking spark your ICU may be faulty when reaching a higher operating temp. Did you open up the black box under the tank?
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 11, 2020, 11:03:53 PM
Ï’m not quite ready to mortar this brick down yet boohoo
Post by: volador on July 11, 2020, 11:15:15 PM
test pins 10 and 5 on the ECU connector plug under the seat for resistance measures ≅ 2.5KΩ @ 20°C
Flat blade screwdriver, 'lever forward' in the hole of the tool-tray to loosen ECU connector plug
check the wires from Pin 10 & 5 of the fuel injection control unit plug for open or shorts
Pin 10 - violet/green
Pin 5- brown
more about LE-Jetronic diagnosis http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,13440.0.html (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,13440.0.html)
Post by: volador on July 11, 2020, 11:57:09 PM
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/5332-120720002653-3281543.jpeg)
4) Petrol Tank Check Valve on the 1985 1-Hit Wonder
The petrol tank return check valve may be blocked/jammed with debris & rust. The ball and spring may be omitted to prevent restriction of flow.
Modification of the check valve assembly
http://www.kforum-tech.com/how-to/Modification%20for%20early%20gas%20tank.htm (http://www.kforum-tech.com/how-to/Modification%20for%20early%20gas%20tank.htm)
Post by: Laitch on July 12, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
I suggest he test each plug to verify its operation and help direct whether investigation should focus on fuel supply or spark to keep it from wandering all over the place.
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 12, 2020, 09:10:02 AM
then I’ll be out to breakfast for bit before Ï close this up & try again
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 13, 2020, 08:31:18 PM
that would be the nicest way to describe my project. It’s frustrating. Ï pulled all plugs. I’m getting fuel for sure. Last night Ï had it put back together, after removing & replacing tank Ï had it turning over and rumbling a bit. Ï stopped, pulled batt to recharge and went to bed. Today Ï got all ready to go and now it just turns over for a sec or two, then cuts out. Last night it would turn over for a while, just didn’t have enough fuel going through yet, after removing and replacing tank. Now it will turn a few sec, then stop. If Ï hold starter button, it’ll turn real quick, stop, then turn over again real quick, stop again, and just keep doing that. I’ve had several bikes before, all carbed and chain drive. So a few things are newish to me(ECU, EFI, shaft drive)
Ï thought for sure I’d be riding today. This intermittent starting thing is making me want to pull my hair out. Ï really do appreciate such varied input, maybe someone has experienced this before. 177381
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 13, 2020, 08:42:23 PM
I’m just keeping on, keeping on
persistence
patience-Ï still have a little
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 13, 2020, 09:44:21 PM
Are your coils all black or do they have orange parts where the plug wires are connected?
Have you pulled the spark plugs and checked them for spark when they are out of the engine? If you did, were all the plugs not sparking or just some of them? Which ones don't spark?
In your next post just answer my questions. I have lived in El Paso and know how hot it gets in the summer so you don't have to bother me with weather reports.
Just answer the questions.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 13, 2020, 10:01:49 PM
K100 coil.jpg (69.38 kB . 768x576 - viewed 494 times)This is what the early coils with problems look like:
Funky coil.jpg (30.47 kB . 768x576 - viewed 487 times)Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 13, 2020, 11:20:23 PM
as far as heat, it’s fried my hi/low switch and made some tails bolts pull. fixed that stuff. so would heat affect coils like that, so they work, not work, then work again in morning. plus the temp firing like now. just pulled plugs, they all do fire. but they fire for a sec, stop then fire again for a sec; its not enough to get engine going. all plugs darkish, and Ï do have the orig black coils
haven’t lived here for a while and normally Ï rarely see over 100. been visiting, remodeling moms house, and trying to get the bumble beemer going. my summertime break before going back to school to be RN is slowly ending. I’d love to ride this thing back home to Santa Fe
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 14, 2020, 07:51:00 AM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 14, 2020, 08:19:34 AM
now only an intermittent spark
all plugs do spark
not frequent enough rythym to get it going
Post by: Laitch on July 14, 2020, 10:22:09 AM
black coils . . .now only an intermittent sparkYour moto is stalled until you do something about this. New orange-top coils cost upwards of $200 per two-cylinder unit. Used orange-tops can be had for as little as $30 per two-cylinder unit right now on eBay. If you're certain the connections to the coils are providing enough current, then replacement is your only option.
Where are the coils from the other engine?
Post by: Laitch on July 14, 2020, 10:39:01 AM
. . . my radiator is full and catch can is half full . . .That container is not a catch can and should not function like one. It's a coolant reservoir; the cooling system is designed to draw coolant from the reservoir into the radiator when necessary. If the hose outlet inside that reservoir is not fully immersed in coolant, you're defeating the system. Of course, that doesn't matter right now because your moto doesn't run; however, it will matter when your ignition system allows the engine to run long enough to get hot.
Post by: Paul_Waterloo on July 14, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Reading this thread it almost seems like you have a cold solder joint somewhere, like in the Motoronic unit, once it heats up, it open circuits and cuts the control circuit for the spark.
Like I said, late to the party, just offering some advice.
Post by: volador on July 14, 2020, 01:32:02 PM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 14, 2020, 02:14:07 PM
but as the saying goes
better late than never
thank you for tip
as said about cooling, Ï won’t need unless it actually runs :popcorm
motor came without coils or alternator
Ï would have attempted to sell those separately also
thnx for now
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 14, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
was slightly easier to call it that though
RESERVOIR
Post by: volador on July 14, 2020, 06:36:53 PM
Paul, you may be late to the party
but as the saying goes
better late than never
thank you for tip...
thnx for now
Potius Sero Quam Nunquam
How ironic you should say
We chip in for Paul's Aerostich shirt (https://www.aerostich.com/clothing/clothing/t-shirts/potius-sero-quam-nunquam.html)
Post by: Laitch on July 14, 2020, 08:26:06 PM
Reading this thread it almost seems like you have a cold solder joint somewhere, like in the Motoronic unit, once it heats up, it open circuits and cuts the control circuit for the spark.Irregular sparking is one of the symptoms of coil failure but it seems like in the heat of an El Paso summer, coil failure, cold solder joints and cold cuts could all be likely candidates. :laughing4-giggles:
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 15, 2020, 12:04:25 AM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on July 15, 2020, 02:08:31 AM
i’ll be riding again real soon, for a few miles anyway 112350
Post by: Laitch on July 15, 2020, 11:19:45 AM
i’ll be riding again real soon, for a few miles anyway 112350It's too early for a victory dance. Party on general principle and send out an early invitation to Paul_Waterloo. :laughing4-giggles:
Post by: 85killzillaRS on August 01, 2020, 06:17:17 PM
If anybody has a fuel rail, let me know!!!
Post by: Laitch on August 01, 2020, 06:32:39 PM
Ï noticed the fuel rail has a small leak at front end and is spraying fuel.Clean the leak area with lacquer thinner. Sand it with emery cloth. Let it dry then apply JB WaterWeld over it according to instructions. Let the JB cure for a couple of days in the Texas heat then see how that works for you while you're waiting for a rail to turn up.
It'll be exciting!
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on August 01, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
Post by: Laitch on August 01, 2020, 06:51:16 PM
JB Weld under pressure would make me a little nervous.That's the exciting part. :laughing4-giggles:
JB claims WaterWeld resists the effects of gasoline and 900psi. I used it on a pinhole pressure line leak in the 5.0L F250HD and it has worked for two years. It's an elderly F250 though, so there's really nothing to lose.
Post by: Laitch on August 01, 2020, 06:57:44 PM
Post by: 85killzillaRS on August 01, 2020, 08:25:11 PM