Post by: filmhog on October 25, 2019, 09:46:58 PM
86 k75 52,000, series is in my profile. Made 4/86.
First off I have read virtually everything to fix the sprag clutch problem and am ready to do it. BUT I need to start the bike to get the proper oil and solvent working. That failing I will pull the cover and look for the 3 oiling holes and pickle them with carb cleaner. I'm confident about the process...........That is one job.
I read here how to bump start the bike. 3rd gear, run the starter to prime the FI and watch for flooding. Then how to not use the starter and open the throttle completely to burn any residual fuel.
Lo and behold the k75 started and ran perfectly for about 3-4 minutes. Had it on high idle then medium and then no idle advance. Running great. Then it stopped. didn't should like it ran out of gas, just stopped. Could not get it started again. Have not yet started it after repeated attempts. I checked the fuel pump for vibration and noise indicating operation. I also checked the flow of gas to the fuel rail and it was positive. Plugs were wet indicating something was getting through the injectors. But the bike had run!!! so something was working right. Checked plug to brain (I have an extra brain also), inserted new plugs, installed new injectors (the 4 hole kind, old ones were that ball configuration.) The injectors were looking like originals albeit the electrical plugs had damage at the clips so I know someone had monkeyed with in the life of the bike.
If I have to check spark, how can one do that when your push starting a bike? Where can I check for the reason its not firing. (yes I tried some starter fluid to on the air cleaner and it did not help put I feel the application of the fluid was not optimal. Any thoughts on things to check? Again, it ran perfect for a few minutes. My first bike was a k75 and I put some miles on it so I know when the engine is sounding right and this one was. Thanks to this forum for any help. This should be a fun project.
Post by: Chaos on October 25, 2019, 10:11:19 PM
Post by: filmhog on October 25, 2019, 10:33:08 PM
Thanks for the input.
Post by: filmhog on October 25, 2019, 10:35:23 PM
Post by: Chaos on October 25, 2019, 10:53:03 PM
Post by: Laitch on October 25, 2019, 11:01:27 PM
Have you cleaned interior of the fuel tank, replaced the fuel filter, checked the condition of all the submersible hoses in the tank, tightened all the hose connections within the tank, cleaned the inside of the coil terminals with a wire brush and the HT wire terminals with emery cloth or a wire brush? Have you disconnected the four-pin fuel pump electrical connector, cleaned it then tightly connected it? Has the air filter been cleaned and the muffler outlet checked for obstructions. Have you checked the plug of the electronic fuel injection control under the seat to be certain it is tightly connected? What is the battery voltage output?
There is a laundry list of procedures to perform on a neglected Brick to insure there are optimal conditions for starting it. Spraying starter fluid on the air filter isn't one of them.
If the engine was running then stalled, a perfectly performing starter won't help keep it running; it'll just help it stall more frequently with less effort on your part. :-)
Please tell us everything you have done to the engine so far.
Post by: volador on October 25, 2019, 11:30:26 PM
If you overhaul it this might help
http://www.k100-forum.com/t4116-sprag-clutch-cleaning-the-sprag-clutch-and-bearing-replacement
Post by: filmhog on October 26, 2019, 01:04:58 PM
Post by: 1ockdown on October 26, 2019, 01:16:22 PM
Post by: filmhog on October 26, 2019, 01:20:18 PM
Post by: 1ockdown on October 26, 2019, 01:24:41 PM
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Post by: filmhog on October 26, 2019, 01:32:56 PM
Post by: filmhog on October 26, 2019, 04:16:31 PM
Post by: 1ockdown on October 26, 2019, 04:19:06 PM
Post by: SDCR john on October 27, 2019, 01:20:53 PM
No not that vent port. The Breather Hose. Here :) It's an unlikely culprit in this situation, but considering you got it running and it died out, that hose is a usual place to start.Inkedk75-M_LI.jpg (626.67 kB . 599x444 - viewed 699 times)
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
Question, What are the two unused plugs under the seat? White 4 pin female and what appears to be a black 5 pin male. Id post a photo but please tell me where a good fee sight is for photos to park. I figure in this resto I'll be posing pics.
Thanks
Post by: 1ockdown on October 27, 2019, 01:29:55 PM
The breather hose symptoms are hair loss, explosive anxiety and social discomfort if you aren't aware of the hose. It cracks over time just like any other rubber, but seems to wear faster. It causes a decent sized air leak into your system, as it vents the crankcase to the air plenum. It normally will crack where the hose clamps are connected. It's easy to remove, if in doubt, take it out and check it.
P.S. u can edit and modify your existing posts after you have posted 10 times i believe.
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 01:30:10 PM
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 01:41:44 PM
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Post by: 1ockdown on October 27, 2019, 01:45:29 PM
Post by: volador on October 27, 2019, 01:50:07 PM
Anti-theft Alarm
Radio, or Police related acc. lights, siren, etc...
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
As I am asking these questions, I though I'd share what Im working on. This 86 was on Craigslist. 52k miles It was stupid cheap....the former owner just gave up when he heard sprag clutch and the BMW dealer hit him with a quote $$$.
I was going to cafe racer it, but when I did the accounting of parts it was basically all there. 25 years ago, I remember those Pichler Uni 4 fairing were very expensive. It needs some body work, but that's easy and have the proper paint waiting to be sprayed. Great paint shop here in Reno. I was going to pull the package rack but I remember those being expensive in the day. Anyway thought you guys would like a photo.
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I'll put a brake question in the next post.
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 02:04:31 PM
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 02:07:14 PM
Thanks [ Invalid Attachment ]
Post by: Laitch on October 27, 2019, 02:18:27 PM
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 02:27:58 PM
Post by: SDCR john on October 27, 2019, 03:30:00 PM
Volador, thanks. I was going to install a radio so I'll try to figure out which is what.
As I am asking these questions, I though I'd share what Im working on. This 86 was on Craigslist. 52k miles It was stupid cheap....the former owner just gave up when he heard sprag clutch and the BMW dealer hit him with a quote $$$.
I was going to cafe racer it, but when I did the accounting of parts it was basically all there. 25 years ago, I remember those Pichler Uni 4 fairing were very expensive. It needs some body work, but that's easy and have the proper paint waiting to be sprayed. Great paint shop here in Reno. I was going to pull the package rack but I remember those being expensive in the day. Anyway thought you guys would like a photo.
I'll put a brake question in the next post.
Post by: SDCR john on October 27, 2019, 04:12:31 PM
.......
The breather hose symptoms are hair loss, explosive anxiety and social discomfort if you aren't aware of the hose.....
Post by: filmhog on October 27, 2019, 04:32:09 PM
Im going to paint it Factory with Paint code 616, the blue you see on the front fairing, fender and rear body section.
Post by: SDCR john on October 27, 2019, 08:08:33 PM
Post by: daveson on October 27, 2019, 09:12:07 PM
...what are the symptoms/ issues that would be exhibited from a bad Breather hose?
Symptoms: It is easy to forget about symptoms you have read on the net, especially after reading a hundred other problems. Remove one end of the hose from your bike and see how it goes, and you will remember that for years.
Issues: Unmetered air will be entering the system.
Post by: filmhog on November 02, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
Post by: Martin on November 02, 2019, 06:03:09 PM
If you need to remove the top part of the airbox I've found it easier to remove the tank and use a long screw driver to undo the AFM hose. Getting the hose back on can be done but is time consuming as there is not much room.. Removing the radiator would probably make it easier. If you know someone mechanically competent with small hands that can be recruited all the better.
Regards Martin.
Post by: Chaos on November 02, 2019, 06:04:53 PM
Post by: Martin on November 02, 2019, 06:47:58 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: filmhog on November 02, 2019, 09:59:40 PM
Post by: filmhog on November 03, 2019, 05:25:38 PM
Any thoughts or corrections? Using the right stuff? Im going to get some seafoam spray to use next time as it is better with the oil I think.
Please thoughts and comments. Thanks to the group.
Post by: Martin on November 03, 2019, 05:32:24 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: johnny on November 03, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
after seeing what a bottle of marvel mystery oil did paired with cheap farm stoar high deterg oil prior to new filter and mobil 1...
im gonna stick with that snake oil... ima believer...
j o
Post by: Laitch on November 03, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
I also put some WD40 in one hole. I don't know why, just did.When you do something, know why you're doing it and be able to explain why. Doing things without reason can lead to unpleasant consequences and an overall appearance of dimwittedness that doesn't encourage the collaboration of others.
Any thoughts or corrections?
I think you're taking the right approach by not drilling into the case.
I'd clean the plugs, put fresh fuel into the tank, add Rislone Motor Flush to the oil in the crankcase, charge the battery then try bump-starting it again. If it started, I'd idle it for twenty minutes with a fan blowing on the engine, shut it down, then try starting it. If that didn't work, I'd change the oil then do it all again. Use of the fan will help control engine temperature if the condition of the engine's temperature control system is unknown. Does the coolant reservoir indicate coolant is in it?
Post by: Chaos on November 03, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on November 03, 2019, 06:55:29 PM
Because you need some friction in there, I would avoid using anything with lubricating qualities, you want some friction and drag on the rollers for them to engage. I'm pretty sure that WD40 is probably working against you, as well as any type of penetrating oil. I would use something like a nonflammable brake cleaner to flush out the crap that may be causing the rollers to stick. I wouldn't be stingy with it, give it 3 or 4 good shots an hour or so apart. Once the starter is working I'm going to change the oil and remove it.
Second, while the cover is removed I'd try to get in there with a brass brazing rod and GENTLY tap it with a small hammer to loosen the rollers after the cleaner has had overnight to work.
Last, I'd pull the spark plugs so the starter has less resistance to running once it starts to work. I'd let it spin the engine for a good ten to fifteen seconds to make sure everything is loosened up. I'd do several spins before putting the plugs back, and then trying to start. Then let it run for fifteen minutes with a fan on the cylinder head and exhaust headers. That will further circulate the brake cleaner. I also like the idea of running with the Rislone detergent during this procedure.
Once the starter spins the engine reliably, drain the oil and change the filter. I would use Shell Rotella T6 full synthetic, 10w40 or whatever it is these days. Walmart has it for $23 a gallon.
Post by: filmhog on November 03, 2019, 08:23:54 PM
Plugs, injectors, battery (charged and then stored on bmw trickle) are all new.
Oil fresh today, bottle CD2 added.
I don't know what oil filter is installed currently. My 74mm tool slips and my 73mm is 14 flats and doesn't fit at all. Is the bmw factory a different size? Im installing WIX as I use them for Diesel applications and they really do a good job. Any thoughts on flow differences?
Trying to start her again. I know the new battery needs to be topped up to spin that shaft.
What am I missing? I wish there was a safe way to tow this to start it as hills are not available but years ago I remember towing something 2 wheel and discovered physics........
thanks for any input.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on November 03, 2019, 09:00:49 PM
As far as the oil filter, Wix makes the filters for Carquest and Autozone. I use the Carquest #R85348 filter. It works with a 76mm 14 flat wrench. I'm not sure if it has a drainback valve or what the valve is made from, that is the only thing that may differentiate it from the OEM filters, but the way it is mounted on the engine prevents the oil from draining out when the engine is shut down anyway.
Post by: Laitch on November 03, 2019, 09:17:53 PM
But lots of noise and struggle from the starter engagement. I visualize the sprag sliding over the teeth of the starter and messing them up.You're hallucinating. Learn how the system works.
Post by: Chaos on November 03, 2019, 09:37:01 PM
Post by: filmhog on November 03, 2019, 09:45:55 PM
Charging tonight and letting it sit and will see what releases tomorrow am. I might go back in and spray again. But using the rocking back and forth in 2 and 3rd to shake loose the sprag. That has made a noticeable movement in the engagement issue.
I have a strong fan ready and standing by because if this starts, Im letting it run for a while....then take it for a ride after establishing it will keep running. This bike is an unknown quantity to me as I don't know any history. It cam with a spare brain. Don't know if it works or why it exists in the package. The PO could have bought it to fix the sprag issue! that is the level on involvement he had on the brick.
Thanks
Chaos, I like the solution to the filter wrench
Post by: volador on November 03, 2019, 11:21:11 PM
Not a Brick same sprag clutch issue by Kirk IllinoisBMWriders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngN5NG384o
Post by: filmhog on November 05, 2019, 05:54:25 PM
I have nothing but time on this so I can keep douching and working the starter. Also am trying to push start it again as that would be the best solution I believe.
How stuck can these sprags be and with what kind of sludge? Is is hardened or maybe im not getting the right stuff yet in there and release them. The only thing getting worked is the CCC seal and I have ordered another for when this project is over.
You thoughts on my choice of PB. I figure it works or it doesn't. After carb cleaner, then brake cleaner, Im trying something new and will go back to brake cleaner maybe. I will change the oil as soon as it fires so the oil is not contaminated with cleaners.
The groups thoughts please? Is this many applications usual?
Post by: Laitch on November 05, 2019, 07:39:58 PM
How stuck can these sprags be and with what kind of sludge? Is is hardened or maybe im not getting the right stuff yet in there and release them. Is this many applications usual?You're experiencing how stuck they can be. They don't need to be any more stuck. :-)
The sprags get fouled by the effects of carbon particles and water sludge. How fouled they get depends upon how well the engine is maintained, how often it is run and how often the oil is changed. If the engine is run often, well maintained and the oil is changed at appropriate intervals, there is less chance of the clutch failing. If the moto has been neglected, the engine will not only be subjected to degradation by condensation within it but there will likely be more combustion blowby products deposited within the crankcase to accumulate and foul the works.
There is no usual number of applications. Different methods are tried repeatedly until one of them works. You've had a few methods already recommended to you. If you try all of them—as instructed—repeatedly but none of them work, then partial disassembly of the engine will be necessary to repair or replace components. If you hire somebody else to do that for you, it will cost you plenty. Let that serve to inspire persistence and patience in you. Many have been successful using these chemical treatments. Some have bored a hole in the case to effect repair. Some have just gone ahead with replacing the part.
Post by: daveson on November 05, 2019, 08:03:13 PM
I'm going to expose now my true, rough as guts self ( I'll blame it on my past years as a formworker) I'd use petrol (gas) I'd spray it up, down, in, out all over the bloody place. I'd use heaps, and I'd do it again too. And again and again.
Don't crank it, drain it.
I love the smell of gas in the morning, it smells like.... Victory.
Post by: alexg on November 06, 2019, 04:48:14 PM
Would it be tooo bad to add a few dabs of an abrasive into this thing, and then flush the tranny several times to avoid contamination?
Post by: Laitch on November 06, 2019, 04:52:32 PM
Would it be tooo bad to add a few dabs of an abrasive into this thing, and then flush the tranny several times to avoid contamination?It isn't in the transmission. It's nested within those gear wheels at the magenta arrow point.
sprag clutch and freewheel.png (67.48 kB . 751x576 - viewed 563 times)
Post by: Laitch on November 06, 2019, 05:34:04 PM
Post by: volador on November 06, 2019, 06:10:06 PM
Would it be tooo bad to add a few dabs of an abrasive into this thing, and then flush the tranny several times to avoid contamination?
You may be on to some thing there instead of dropping teaspoons of moly-powder nothing like a little valve grinding compound
Brilliant!
Post by: Laitch on November 06, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
You may be on to some thing there instead of dropping teaspoons of moly-powder nothing like a little valve grinding compoundCombine them and the result is the industrial equivalent of creamy peanut butter.
Brilliant!
Post by: alexg on November 06, 2019, 06:58:00 PM
You are right, it is in the engine; forgot that detail. Even better, the engine has a filter, and a lot more volume of oil vs the tranny. And not many ball bearings.
Post by: Laitch on November 06, 2019, 06:59:56 PM
Even better, the engine has a filter, and a lot more volume of oil vs the tranny. And not many ball bearings.Let us know the result of your trials. :-)
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on November 07, 2019, 08:13:52 AM
Post by: Laitch on November 07, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
Post the VIN so in the future we can avoid it.Spragsand® It's a miracle for your engine!
Post by: daveson on November 08, 2019, 03:34:12 PM
With the fuel cap removed, you should be able to see fuel returning to the tank, with an attempted start.
Post by: filmhog on November 11, 2019, 12:55:17 AM
I spent the last 4 days injecting brake cleaner into the 3 oiling holes. I did it several times a day and also got it wet and then flushed it with another blast. Yes I drained the oil before hand and left it open to vent and drain the brake cleaner. Buttoned her up today and got some rough contact then no engagement. Back to square one.
If it were a gummed bolt, I would put heat on it to loosen it. Would a heat gun provide enough heat to the sprag housing part to try and unstick? Anybody used that?
Yes, I need to start it and let the detergent oil and additives do their thing.
Also as an update, Im taking apart the front master that is leaking and will see what needs to be cleaned or repaired. Plastics are off, cracks repaired with epoxy (flex or accident damage from POwner), and plastics are sanded. Ready for paint. I would love to get it started before it goes on the lift for winter storage and rehab.
I have nothing but time so I'll just work at it easily.
Post by: Laitch on November 11, 2019, 07:17:30 AM
If it were a gummed bolt, I would put heat on it to loosen it. Would a heat gun provide enough heat to the sprag housing part to try and unstick? Anybody used that?You'd be the first; I haven't read about that being used yet. It's time to try something other than brake cleaner. Which other of the elixirs recommended here have you tried and how many times have you tried them? Brake cleaner wouldn't have been one of my choices.
What's needed trying here is elevating the rear wheel from pavement, placing the transmission a higher gear, getting that wheel rotating at a brisk pace then popping the clutch. You could use a bicycle or electric motor to rotate the rear wheel. Desperate times take desperate measures; danger can be its own reward. You don't need to be on it or pushing it. You just need to be sure it's stable when it starts and that its front brake is engaged so if it drops off its support, it won't easily power through a wall. Old mattresses make excellent wall protection, usually:-) Anyway, it's the only way you'll be able to start it under the circumstances unless enough sprags loosen in the clutch housing.
Here's the idea (https://www.quora.com/What-is-that-stand-called-in-which-the-bike%E2%80%99s-rear-wheel-is-placed-and-what-is-it%E2%80%99s-use). As indicated previously, rustic solutions are within reach. :-)
Set up for YouTube. Many here could be interested and have no other lives in the winter.
Post by: volador on November 11, 2019, 01:06:33 PM
A cup of kerosene in crankcase oil when running from the starting block or douche with lacquer thinner or acetone in a spray bottle with tip extension
Heat gun with a narrow tip couldn't hurt on a moderate/medium setting
Or try some vinegar
Post by: Laitch on November 11, 2019, 04:29:38 PM
A cup of kerosene in crankcase oil when running from the starting block or douche with lacquer thinner or acetone in a spray bottle with tip extension . . .Heat gun with a narrow tip couldn't hurt on a moderate/medium setting . . .Or try some vinegarThe 5B Sisyphean Society's in-house sprag cleaner sends you best wishes.
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Post by: Martin on November 11, 2019, 04:47:58 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: johnny on November 11, 2019, 04:54:06 PM
did you deoxit the sprague gound wior...
j o
Post by: volador on November 11, 2019, 05:07:22 PM
The 5B Sisyphean Society's in-house sprag cleaner sends you best wishes.
I love the smell of lacquer thinner in the morning. YeeeHaaaw
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-fHRDIUYAEdjD5.jpg)
Post by: Laitch on November 11, 2019, 05:23:25 PM
Post by: volador on November 11, 2019, 05:34:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-pzEAQQoow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-pzEAQQoow)
Post by: cycleman on November 28, 2019, 01:08:26 PM
The early Gold Wing 4 cylinders also used a sprag clutch starter system and they were known to cause problems. My last GL1100 a 83 model, I bought as a non starter and the fellow had given up on getting it running. It was a sprag clutch not engaging. I changed the oil and filter and put in about 100 cc of Sea Foam into the oil. With the help of my wife we were able to push start it and get it running. I then went on a ride for about an hour. I got home, shut it off and then the starter engaged intermittently, so I went on another longer ride. Got home, changed out the oil and put in the right weight of oil. Never had any problems thereafter. A lot the the sprag problems with the GL1000 was folks running 20-50 oil. Maybe if you lived in the desert but for the rest of us, it was too thick for a water cooled bike.
My current K100RT is an 86 model that sat for likely 25 yrs, some outside. It has about 15 K miles on it. I bought it off the previous owner who had done some restoration work on it to get it back on the road but he didn't want to spend any more money on it. It has an intermittent sprag issue. I've put about 2000 miles on the bike since I bought it, changed the oil and filter 3 times and with the last oil change I went with Mob 1 15-50. From what I've read that seems to be the choice of oil for this bikes. If the sprag issue continues I'll try the Sea Foam treatment.