MOTOBRICK.COM
TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: GaryFrank on July 08, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
-
Hi all
I'm wondering what my options are regarding ignition coils.
P.O suspected a faulty coil and tried to fit a Ford Focus coil pack (hence the burnt wires)
I've read on another forum that it does work and am asking if anyone here has tried anything similar.
I know that OEM would be the best option but am working with Monopoly money (15:1)
Thanks
-
Unlike the K75 that uses 1 coil per cylinder, the 4 cylinder bikes utilize coils that have 2 HV outputs on each coil that both fire at the same time(wasted spark design)..... Can't say as I have heard of any auto application ignition coil that is the same configuration.....
Personally I wouldn't waste my time or limited money on something that would be a "maybe" resolution, and rather spend it on the correct OEM solution and not wonder how long it might last..... Try and find yourself a good used one, if your sure that is the issue. Depending on your problem, it could be the ignition amp that is causing issues and not a coil.... Check and make sure the heat sink paste is fresh and not dried up on the backside of the amplifier module, not uncommon as the bikes age and some owners don't think about it.
-
I agree with Scott that getting the correct coil is the way to go. The early coils had issues that were corrected in later units. If you can find used K100 coils from an '87 or later you should be in good shape.
In the years I have been hanging around these forums I've seen a fair number of riders change out those old coils for the newer design with excellent results.
-
Unlike the K75 that uses 1 coil per cylinder, the 4 cylinder bikes utilize coils that have 2 HV outputs on each coil that both fire at the same time(wasted spark design)..... Can't say as I have heard of any auto application ignition coil that is the same configuration.....
Lots of automotive 4-cylinders do it. GM for sure. But the coils are usually in an inconvenient large plastic box.
-
Okay, so I’ve replaced all the burnt wire and fired her up.
Missing on number 3 plug. Switched 2 & 3 plug wires On the coil and the miss moves to plug 2.
Coil is definitely toast but the replacement cost is stupid.
This leads me to an alternative- Ford Focus also fires 1 & 4 (wasted spark)
The only possible problem I can see is that the Ford unit has a low impedance - 1,2 ohms.
Will this eventually kill my ignition unit ?
Are there any options as in firing an in-line amplifier ( or summat to that effect)???
-
Said Ford coil....
-
The problem followed the wire, hopefully the coil is good and it's only a bad wire.
-
Nah, not so lucky..... it’s definitely the coil
-
From our friends at Summit Racing:
“So, less resistance is better, right? No. Not always.
If the resistance is too low, the added current could damage the distributor points or the electronic ignition module. When shopping for a coil, make sure the primary resistance is compatible with your other ignition components.”
Has anyone come up with a solution.....in-line amp of sorts
-
Missing on number 3 plug. Switched 2 & 3 plug wires On the coil and the miss moves to plug 2.
Did you inspect the faulty terminal coils terminal for corrosion?I've read on another forum that it does work and am asking if anyone here has tried anything similar.
What was used for a successful coil substitute in the post on other forum?
-
I did inspect the coil in every direction ( this was the original problem which led to the PO’s diy wiring burn-out)
Other site mentioned a Ford Mondeo coil pack and stated that it works, but makes no mention of leaks no term effects. I have also spoken to a local (South Africa) who has run on the Ford coil but changed back to original...
I will wire up the Ford coil tomorrow just to run her on all 4, but will keep on digging till I find a cheaper solution.
-
How did you decide it's not the wire? Are all four wires the same brand and type?
-
Sorry, I didn’t mention that I had partially rewired the bike.
All the coil wires, right handlebar switch, ignition switch, front brake switch.....
I’m still looking for a right handlebar switch - have “hotwired” everything needed to get her running
-
Plug leads are brand new
-
I did inspect the coil in every direction ( this was the original problem which led to the PO’s diy wiring burn-out)
Other site mentioned a Ford Mondeo coil pack and stated that it works, but makes no mention of LONG term effects. I have also spoken to a local (South Africa) who has run on the Ford coil but changed back to original...
I will wire up the Ford coil tomorrow just to run her on all 4, but will keep on digging till I find a cheaper solution.
-
It's rare, but sometimes new stuff is faulty, which mondeo engine and year have you used.?
Let us know the results if you end up running with the mondeo coils.
-
Will play some more tomorrow.
I have no doubts about the Ford coil pack working, I’m just concerned about the long term effect (1,2 ohm coil resistance)
-
I wonder what the availability of used later model K100 coils is like in S.A. That is the route I would go. Early coils had problems, later model coils are a lot more reliable.
-
greetings...
there is a bike breaker in south africa that has brick parts...
there was a motobricker here a few years ago from south africa and chronicled his drama scoring parts...
i will have to think about it later because im exhausted from unwhacking tommyts whack...
j o
-
Will play some more tomorrow.
I have no doubts about the Ford coil pack working, I’m just concerned about the long term effect (1,2 ohm coil resistance)
It could overheat the electronic control unit resulting in its failure but there might be used control units available, maybe at the bike breaker j o has indicated.
-
I found a pair of orange tops on eBay for GBP30. Number 2 son is getting them for me 👏👏👏
Still gonna connect the Ford unit just to fire her up and check everything, then I’ll strip her down and make pretty.
-
Do you want to use Focus coils like the PO did?
-
I don’t think he knew what he was doing - electrickery isn’t for everyone
-
"P.O suspected a faulty coil and tried to fit a Ford Focus coil pack (hence the burnt wires)"
In reply #4 you say you want to put Focus coils in.
Huh ...hang on... wait... what?
Am I missing something?
-
Oh, OK.
I'm wondering why the other bloke who tried them went back to the originals.
Somehow I can't attach quotes properly anymore, it just turned into multiple posts.
Anyway let us know the results please.
-
Was the PO the OP?
Sorry about that, I suffer from CBTJT (compulsive bad taste joke telling) it's a side effect of one of my other medical conditions, I suffer from a deficiency of caffeine.
-
Ford wiring
I know that I said I’m concerned about the resistance on the Ford unit, but I want to run the motor to check everything. Replacement coil prices were stupid, but I found second hand coils on eBay for GBP30 (works out to about R550.00 which is a quarter of the prices I’ve been getting
-
So..... the Ford coils work but I won’t be running on them until I have more info about the lower resistance.
Now I can start stripping and make pretty
Can’t load a video??
-
Can’t load a video??
Upload it to YouTube then post a link to it here.
-
Bonus, which motor, which year?
-
It’s a 1984 K100rs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG0PauEgOHU&feature=share
-
I'd be careful about using coils with a lower primary resistance. This will cause more current to be drawn through the ICU drivers, and possibly destroy the ICU (as the drivers will overheat). Inductance mismatch between the OEM coils and the Focus coils is another concern.
-
👍👍👍 this was only to test the motor. Replacement orange top coils have been sourced in the UK at a decent price
-
Interesting.
Thanks for taking the risk. Was it hard to press the start button? I guess there was at least a little anxiety there.
I'm considering an experiment at the moment too, but a bit worried about going to the stage of pressing the start button for fear of damaging the computers. Maybe I should do as you have, just for a short number of seconds.
-
It was scary to say the least..... to top it off, I had the coil wires crossed over and had to change them 3 times before I found the right pattern. 😳
I’ve let her idle for about 4 minutes to get warmed up.... next job is to undo the PO’s manual fan switch and figure out why he did that....
-
greetings garyfrank...
check your pms... the contact info the the cape town bricker i spoke of is there... good luck...
j o
-
next job is to undo the PO’s manual fan switch and figure out why he did that....
Fairly common to do around here as the cooling system is at its limit and some folks want to turn the fan on to cool the motor before the temp. switch turns it on.
-
Consider leaving it on, I actually want to put one on my brick cause the fan hardly ever comes on. It could fail from lack of use, maybe that's why the PO put it on.
-
It could fail from lack of use, maybe that's why the PO put it on.
Precisely
-
I will rewire it that it works on the temperature relay and have an “on/off” switch for manual operation
-
To bump an old thread, BSK are using coils and plugs off a Ford Fiesta V 1.3ltr 2001-2008 I believe. I have the full setup on my K now that I got from another P/O.
The p/n for the lead set is Intermotor Ignition Lead Set 73986, the coil set is Intermotor Ignition Coil 12807.
To connect to stock K100 wiring:
Coil Pin 1 to Black/Red (coil for cyl 2+3)
Coil Pin 2 to Green/Yellow 12v
Coil Pin 3 to Black/Blue (coil for cyl 1+4)
You can also buy a ford coil connector from Aliexpress for cheap or get one from a wrecker and it should work. (Alternative is to pin the plug manually.)
The set-up just works, and I'm about to test it on my mates 85 LT also.
Bsk is nice because it comes with a bracket and you don't have to go poking about for parts, but you can do it on the cheap.
-
Can you post some photos that show the coils, their connections and how they are installed on the bike? Possibly make a new thread showing how they are installed. Thia has been done for the Spal fan and the ChiCom rear master cylinder.
-
Can you post some photos that show the coils, their connections and how they are installed on the bike? Possibly make a new thread showing how they are installed. Thia has been done for the Spal fan and the ChiCom rear master cylinder.
100% I'll get started on it before the weekend! It seems like a really good way to modernise some of the components.