Post by: Chri5 on March 08, 2019, 01:08:51 PM
So i was on my way to work pulled out for a slow over take reved up to 3400 ish rev and a horrible noise started so i have put the bike off the road
the engine starts great pulls as normal and idles perfect but im not willing to run high rev with this noise
Ive removed the alternator in the vid ill link in my next post i will be stripping the bike to clutch at the weekend but if any one has any ideas what it might be please shout out
Post by: Chri5 on March 08, 2019, 01:10:15 PM
The noise which sounds like the mic cant handle it is what it sounds like the noise comes in at 2500rpm cold and 3200rpm when warm. The noise increases with revs
Post by: Laitch on March 08, 2019, 01:22:51 PM
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on March 08, 2019, 01:57:27 PM
Post by: Chri5 on March 08, 2019, 01:59:07 PM
Post by: Chri5 on March 08, 2019, 02:02:48 PM
Post by: Chri5 on March 09, 2019, 06:56:09 AM
Post by: Laitch on March 09, 2019, 08:23:13 AM
Is there any way to inspect the output shaft rivets with out removing the engine can they be seen throught the crack cover maybe?It might be possible. Inspect the attached photo supplied in a comment by Spike Cornelius following John Brown's IBMWR essay (https://ibmwr.org/index.php/2000/01/01/engine-output-shaft-noise/) about output shaft gear repair with the engine in frame. A small portion of the output gear can be seen just to the left of the arrow. Cornelius's comment also explains how to observe the gear for problems. Brown heard a different noise than you are hearing perhaps because all the gear rivets broke at one time. His moto wouldn't move by engine power after that.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/1/1601-090319074656.png)
Post by: Chri5 on March 09, 2019, 12:14:27 PM
Post by: Chri5 on March 11, 2019, 05:38:05 AM
Does any one know if the brick should be solid or if there is a tolerance of play along the
Post by: caveman on March 11, 2019, 06:04:36 AM
Post by: daveson on March 11, 2019, 06:49:30 AM
How many km on your bike and do you think they're genuine?
Post by: Laitch on March 11, 2019, 09:00:39 AM
Does any one know if the brick should be solid or if there is a tolerance of play along the crack for each conrodThat isn't a crack; it's a joint or space. A crack in an engine usually refers to a partial fracture/breakage of a component like a block, cylinder head or pump casing.
The limit for end play of a connecting rod big end bearing is 0.40mm, according to the specs in the BMW K75/K100 2V workshop manual available in Repair Guidance at this site. If end play measures 0.50mm—you're just guessing—that rod bearing in your engine is over the limit. You can measure end play right now using a blade-type feeler gauge. A 0.45mm blade shouldn't fit into that joint. Download the manual and view the engine spec charts in the Engine section.
Visually check for play in the output gear by movement of the crankshaft. Rivets should be tight.
I'm uncertain we've tracked the source of this noise yet. I think you'll need to start disassembly. Does the oil pressure indicator light up?
Don't take seriously advice when it's offered up from somebody's memory; verify it.
Post by: Chri5 on March 11, 2019, 09:21:32 AM
So with the feeler guage should that be placed between the conrod adjacent "weights" im not really sure where i would put them
The bike has 50k on which i have no reason to beleive they are not genuine
The noise can be heard on the video as noise descriptions are some what subjective i would describle it as a raspy rattle it sound like the mic on the video is blowing out but its not thats the noise
When rotating the rear wheel the shock absorber housing on the output shaft visually looked solid to the gear the riverts all felt solid to when poked
I will make a vid of the conrod on cylinder 1 and post it
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on March 11, 2019, 09:32:12 AM
Post by: Chri5 on March 11, 2019, 09:38:27 AM
Post by: Laitch on March 11, 2019, 09:46:54 AM
So with the feeler guage should that be placed between the conrod adjacent "weights" im not really sure where i would put them . . .The connecting rod and its bearing shells ride on a rod bearing journal. The counterweights are opposite the rod journal. You're measuring the space between the rod bearing cap and one side of the rod bearing journal. See the attached photo. Download the manual. In fact, it's better to have two or more manuals by different publishers so you can get varying explanations.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/1/1601-110319092804.png)
Post by: Grant on March 11, 2019, 02:10:52 PM
Post by: Chri5 on March 17, 2019, 01:28:35 PM
Post by: Laitch on March 17, 2019, 01:57:21 PM
. . . im just not convinced its that is there any other possible culprits it could be Or checks i should undertake before i open the engine up??Grant made a suggestion in Post #17. Why don't you acknowledge it and check that valve? It's inside one of the two hose attachment pipes on the left underside of the tank—a spigot usually removable with a wrench. Soak it with penetrant first to help with loosening it.
Post by: Chri5 on March 22, 2019, 06:21:14 AM
The disc are old but the noise occurs when stationary the engine is only a baby with 50k on it
Post by: daveson on March 22, 2019, 07:07:30 AM
Post by: Laitch on March 22, 2019, 10:06:01 AM
Just curious, but have you pulled the alternator and checked the monkey knutz, clutch cup and the drive dog? Worn knutz or a bad bearing or splines on the dog can make quite a racket.I think you've missed some of Gryph's advice, Chri5.Yes Gryph that was my first thought the monkey nuts look new and the bearings are good the noise is persistant without the alternator which is removed in the vid
Gryph indicates the driving dog should be inspected but you didn't mention inspecting it. You indicated that the drive cushions and bearing looked good to you. It's possible the screw that holds the driving dog to its shaft loosened, the screw stripped, the splines within the dog might be damaged or a combination those conditions. The noise could be from the shaft riding over the dog's splines. The arrow on the attached diagram indicates the driving dog; the photo is a view from the engine side of the dog showing the splines within it. You had better pull the alternator again so you can reach in and check that dog for looseness.
The photo and diagram are from the MAX BMW parts fiche (https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51747&rnd=07242017).
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-220319094319.png)
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-220319094403.png)
Post by: billday on March 22, 2019, 01:38:14 PM
https://youtu.be/_D4reewr9Cc
Post by: daveson on March 22, 2019, 02:59:34 PM
Also, check the voltage across the battery for irregularity while noisy.
Does the noise change after pulling in the clutch?
Post by: Chri5 on March 24, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
IMG-20190324-WA0001.jpg (45.25 kB . 432x576 - viewed 518 times) IMG-20190324-WA0003.jpg (45.99 kB . 432x576 - viewed 585 times) IMG-20190324-WA0004.jpg (44.65 kB . 432x576 - viewed 550 times)Post by: Laitch on March 24, 2019, 08:20:41 PM
After another sunny days poking around . . .Thanks for the update and photos. That's an uncommon occurrence but should be relatively straight-forward to repair after you've thoroughly checked the other components for damage.
Post by: Chaos on March 25, 2019, 12:57:13 AM
Post by: daveson on March 25, 2019, 03:17:19 AM
Be careful not to lose the original balance paint marks when you clean the parts.
Post by: Laitch on March 25, 2019, 06:51:46 AM
Be careful not to lose the original balance paint marks when you clean the parts.One component of the balanced assembly—the pressure plate—must be replaced so balance has already been lost. It's likely the entire clutchpack and other small parts should also be replaced after being in that shredder.
Post by: Chri5 on March 25, 2019, 02:08:13 PM
Post by: billday on March 25, 2019, 03:11:23 PM
I agree it is a strange failure -- one I've never seen nor heard of before. Perhaps a freak defect in the part, not "caused" by anything in particular?
Post by: Laitch on March 25, 2019, 04:19:48 PM
I agree it is a strange failure -- one I've never seen nor heard of before. Perhaps a freak defect in the part, not "caused" by anything in particular?Maybe the clutch pack was too new because, as the song tells us, only the good die young. In this case though, it could be one or more of the clutch cover bolts might have backed out or sheared then a spring or springs fractured from vibration on the locating pins and the whole interior became a bingo cage of shrapnel.
Chri5 will no doubt expand his pictorial review of the crime scene.
Post by: Chri5 on April 06, 2019, 10:13:04 AM
after examination of the old clutch the only thing i found was the inner plate of the spring diaphram had a little play but my replacement part was the same so i assume that is normal the pins on the clutch cover plate were stright and in tacked and the bolt where all tight on disassembly so freak part defect is all i can come up with but i took the opportunity to give that motor its first deep clean in what i can olny guess in at least a decade maybe 2 and try put the colour scheme im planning for the block on the bell housing
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Post by: billday on April 06, 2019, 12:45:08 PM
Post by: Laitch on April 06, 2019, 01:12:40 PM
. . . i thought i must of bent the transmission input pin as the gearbox just wouldn't fit but the frame was just out slightly so i slackend it all off and reinstalled the transmission but i only discovered this after i took it all apart againDoes the engine's intermediate housing have two alignment dowels installed? Their installation has been recommended to obviate misalignment during reassembly.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-060419130026.png)
Post by: daveson on April 06, 2019, 03:40:56 PM
If not you may need a helper to pull the clutch lever in, but only if needed (or clutch arm if off the bike) while you push the gearbox on. Or install the clutch horizontally to help keep everything concentric.
Push the gearbox fully home before installing the bolts. Use some longer bolts with the heads cut off to help guide you.
Check if the push rod is bent.
Keep the clutch arm supported too, so as not to tear the push rod boot. If torn it is best to replace it now.
Post by: Chri5 on April 07, 2019, 02:06:50 PM
Daveson yes i used the clutch alginment tool i also had a check of the push rod with a dial gauge on the side of the tip a spinning the rod just to be sure and its straight
As soon the bolt on the frame where slacken it slight stright on it was the right hand frame mount on the gearbox just pushing ever so slightly
Once my new bolts arrive for the clutch and going to put the gearbox on propperly with its stand then jack the front of the engine so the bike it off the ground except for the stand and jack and loosen the frame again then redo all the bolts for the frame so engine and gearbox completed this is to try and make sure the frame is sitting propperly on the complete set up unless any one has another way to makesure the frame is on propperly
20190405_190541.jpg (64.61 kB . 768x432 - viewed 526 times)
Post by: daveson on April 07, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Is the problem that the frame and gearbox holes aren't concentric, or is it that there is a gap that closes as you tighten the bolt?
Check the frame to be sure it is an RS model. It has spacers (from memory) and the bolts and spacers must be installed and tightened in a specific sequence for an RS.
Good luck with it.
Post by: Chri5 on April 07, 2019, 05:58:56 PM
Post by: daveson on April 07, 2019, 06:07:52 PM
I think the other manual goes into more detail. Maybe your tightening sequence is wrong. Look for signs of a drop, especially a right hand drop.
Be good to see a photo of it when done.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on April 07, 2019, 08:34:20 PM
???????????????????
Dude, you gotta slow down and check what you are writing. A period here and there wouldn't hurt either. I'd like to help, but your writing is impenetrable.
Post by: daveson on April 07, 2019, 08:57:54 PM
Post by: Laitch on April 07, 2019, 09:07:27 PM
the dowls where in place i did get it back together after slacking the frame blots on right it was out of alightment on the dowls by just a fraction and wouldnt slide on like it has previously so i knew something was a missThe dowels were designed to prevent misalignment. The idea is that when they are engaged into the corresponding hole in the transmission misalignment of the transmission with the intermediate housing is not possible, unless the dowels are damaged.
What might have been misaligned was the clutch pack. Check Chris Harris's video showing alignment procedure using the alignment tool. It's part of the spline lube video series.
To echo Gryph's query, frame mounts shouldn't be impeding the installation of the transmission to the engine. It's difficult to understand your description. A photo or two is needed to clarify the problem.
Post by: Filmcamera on April 07, 2019, 09:29:05 PM
Post by: Laitch on April 07, 2019, 09:44:15 PM
. . . you are correct about a frame shim which is on the left frame engine mount i will double check the manual for the sequence to make sure i got it rightAre you aware that there is a specific sequence for installing and tightening bolts mounting the frame to the engine?
Post by: daveson on April 07, 2019, 10:59:16 PM
Post by: Laitch on April 08, 2019, 03:22:31 AM
Im using the haynes manual . . .I use Clymer's, Haynes, and the BMW k100/k75 2V service manual that is downloadable from this site. The BMW manual is the source of the attached diagrams. If a procedure is unclear or unconfirmed, consult another source, including experienced members of the forum. How the K100RS 2V frame is tightened depends upon how the fuel tank is attached.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-080419025745.png)
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-080419030644.png)
Post by: Chri5 on April 08, 2019, 12:43:57 PM
Post by: Laitch on April 08, 2019, 02:42:09 PM
. . . im just a bit of a meff . . .Thanks for introducing this Liverpudlian term to some of us outlanders. :2thumbup:
Post by: Chri5 on April 09, 2019, 05:28:57 PM
Post by: daveson on April 09, 2019, 06:34:41 PM
Post by: Chri5 on April 10, 2019, 04:45:51 PM
Post by: Laitch on April 10, 2019, 08:32:27 PM
Only thing now is my fast idle light is always on is that an adjustment issue?It might be, or it could be that the piston on the switch is stuck. Fast idle speed adjustment is explained in the downloadable BMW K75/K100 2V manual here on page 13–06.0. Attached is a photo of the switch.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/1601-100419202959.png)
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on April 11, 2019, 02:05:15 AM
Post by: Chri5 on April 11, 2019, 06:41:14 AM
Post by: billday on April 11, 2019, 07:12:25 AM
Post by: Filmcamera on April 11, 2019, 08:25:45 AM
61 31 1 459 569you can add it if you want, I did not bother.
Post by: Laitch on April 11, 2019, 08:41:46 AM