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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => Project Classic Motobricks => Topic started by: szabgab on February 24, 2019, 11:22:23 AM
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Guys, I started a new topic as not to completely hijack the thread about tank internal lines...
There are a few quick easy tests you can do. Are the needles parallel in fifth gear? Mine are, we have metric here but I don't think that matters. You might have a non original final drive. Is the speedo accurate?
It seems to me roughly say 6.5lt/100km, looking at that metric graph, I googled that to 43MPG, maybe my maths is wrong or something.
The final drive ratio is usually stamped on the top, near the swing arm.
I'm thinking, be sure your fuel economy is bad before looking for the cause.
Dave, in my calculation 43 US MPG is 5.4l/100km and 51.5 Imperial MPG
The speedo is actually 5-10% optimistic, so my fuel consumption is even worse, than on paper. We have km here too, so will check 5th gear, next time I am riding the bike. Also will check the final gear ratio...
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I cannot think of any reasons why your plugs look so good with the fuel efficiency you say you are getting. They should be black and sooty with the amount of fuel you say you are using, certainly not as clean as yours look.
Are you absolutely sure your trip meter is running properly? It is driven by a small electric motor that is speed controlled by some electronics and the rear wheel sensor. I think it is possible that it could be running slow because of drag in the gearing and not registering distance accurately.
I would suggest taking a ride on a motorway with km markers and checking your readings against them. a minimum 25-30 km trip should tell you if everything is accurate.
You said, my plugs could show a slightly lean condition, and probably that would make the bike running uneconomical too, if I understand this correctly. The whole lunchbox has been replaced in October-November time, the old and the new are showing the same. Also whilst testing for speedo accuracy using a 50Hz soldering iron (where one should see 60.5km/h or so on the speedo) I tested the tripmeter too, in one minute it showed just over a km traveled, so that was exactly right. It could bind from time to time, but so did the old one? Nevertheless, I will test it using your method of driving a longish known distance and check it that way. Other possibilty is dragging rear brake, which would worsen the economy big time, however bike is easy to push (but rear rotor gets hot to the touch after every ride)
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I'll use 5L/100km when on longer out of town rides at 80 to 120 kph. In town is another story. My workshop is 1km away and my clients, groceries, banking, beer, etc are all within a 5km radius. I'll use 7.5L/100km in town.
Yes, basically this is what I fear, maybe a touring bike made to be used WOT for miles on end is just crap in the city. My scooter was brilliant in that sense, but I could not get rid of it quickly enough, it was so soulless. It was a Kymco however and not one of those old-school good looking Italian ones ;)
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Timing is fairly easy to check...
The good news is that when the edges of the cutout in the two parts are aligned, the timing will be at factory specifications. This is the way the timing is set according to the factory manual I have. All my bikes are timed that way and they run well and get 45-48 MPG.
Gryphon, I have managed to squeeze in some time to check the plate. It looks OK to me, but please have a look. Thank you!
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. . . maybe a touring bike made to be used WOT for miles on end is just crap in the city.
That is more or less accurate, but WOT also lessens fuel economy.
City life will not only lessen the fuel economy of a road bike but is also likely to increase wear on engine components because insufficiently warmed lubrication isn't effective engine or transmission protection. Condensation won't be thoroughly evaporated by exposure to a sufficient duration of engine heat so increased corrosion of vulnerable electrical connectors is also likely if inspection and maintenance is neglected. That can be somewhat mitigated by waterproof connectors.
Piaggio makes attractive and efficient scooters. In Vermont, electrically-powered mountain bikes with rugged frames, sturdy curb/debris resistant tires and protected electronics are making headway among commuters. Zero Motorcyles (https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/?PCA=GAD-R-NA-US-S-Zero%20Brand%20Terms&keyword=zero%20motorcycles&creative=328991177227&matchtype=e&network=g&device=c&pi_utm_source=google&pi_utm_medium=cpc&pi_utm_campaign=GAD-R-NA-US-S-Zero%20Brand%20Terms&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq-DUp4HV4AIVjLbICh17YwmaEAAYASADEgK_qvD_BwE) would also be appealing under city circumstances, but they're still costly and importation into the 16th century is unlikely to lessen that cost. :giggles
When finally you get your moto tuned and cleaned up, somebody will pay a reasonable price for it if it doesn't satisfy your needs.
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Do you buy fuel in litres and is your odo in miles?
It's always a good idea to check the brakes.
Look at your metric graph, I worked out 6.27lt/100km (I'm using reading glasses, so check that) That's 45MPG, 37.5 US
I think that's good, in harsh conditions, for an old bike that may do over 200km/hr, at least the k100 can.
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Do you buy fuel in litres and is your odo in miles?
Look at your metric graph, I worked out 6.27lt/100km (I'm using reading glasses, so check that) That's 45MPG, 37.5 US
I think that's good, in harsh conditions, for an old bike that may do over 200km/hr, at least the k100 can.
Fuel in litres, odo in kilometres. The graph is a misleading one, as there are only 12 fuel ups, and the first, rather good reading affects the average, but that is not to be counted, as I bought the bike partially fueled up, also there is a very bad 8.2l consumption, I have forgotten to log. But you are probably right, one should ride a bike rather than looking at stats...
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...importation into the 16th century is unlikely to lessen that cost. :giggles
When finally you get your moto tuned and cleaned up, somebody will pay a reasonable price for it if it doesn't satisfy your needs.
Haha, I knew, the 16th century comment of mine will come back haunting me forever :))
For the price I've paid, I could have gotten myself a very nice scoot, like a PCX, that is practically making gas. I had a 400cc Honda from the 80s, which I sold, because I thought a scooter will be better for what I need it for. But there is something about an old bike, like ours, all that old-school lunacy, that is cramped in one makes me always want one. Also prices of K bikes gone up VERY significantly, and I could make nice money on selling this one, but the thought of one of them Starbucks folks turning it into some ungodly retard on two wheels fills me with terror :)
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Experiment a bit, try some other bowsers, try high octane if you're not already. But you're already doing as good as bocutter, he's getting 5lt/100km (56MPG, 47US) on the highway.
How many other bikes can do 200km/hr and 20km/lt? And heaps of torque to boot.
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First of all, the timing is spot on the factory setting.
Second, WTF is with l/100km? that's too friggin' hard for my brain to understand. km/l. Fill tank, how much does the pump show went in? What does the tripmeter say you travelled since the last fill?
Divide km by the l and you have your answer. Crap, I can do that in my much abused head as I ride away from the station. Don't even need a calculator or a pencil.
Third, the speedometer reading has nothing to do with the odometer reading. They operate on two separate electrical mechanisms. A measured run is the surest way to check the tripmeter. It sounds like yours is running accurately, but a measured run is the only test I would trust.
Last, are your spark plugs the correct heat range? If they are the proper plugs for the bike, I am pretty sure the mixture is correct, and all the engine control devices are working properly.
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Second, WTF is with l/100km?
It's the European way of calculating. Here's an extract from the BMW K75/K100 2V service manual available at the world famous MOTOBRICK. COM:
Maximum permissible oil consumption rate: 0.151 per 1 00 km.
This method can be found in use all the way back to the 16th century in Hungary.
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It's the European way of calculating. Here's an extract from the BMW K75/K100 2V service manual available at the world famous MOTOBRICK. COM:
Maximum permissible oil consumption rate: 0.151 per 1 00 km.
This method can be found in use all the way back to the 16th century in Hungary.
:D Laitch, no it can't unfortunately. If that would be true, Hungary would have been the leading scientific superpower of the time as metric and SI system was still waiting to be established. Hungarians up to the nineteenth century were using some strange old ways to measure things, funnily enough resembling a lot more the imperial system than metric and divisions weren't decimal either.
As to why is the 100km/l the ISO standard over here is unknown to me, Gryphon is right about MPG being simpler to calculate, for me this ratio is more natural, but it is because I grew up with it
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Hungarians up to the nineteenth century were using some strange old ways to measure things, funnily enough resembling a lot more the imperial system than metric and divisions weren't decimal either.
My mistake—I thought you were a time traveler from the 16th century based on your relationship with your moto. :giggles
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Yes, basically this is what I fear, maybe a touring bike made to be used WOT for miles on end is just crap in the city. My scooter was brilliant in that sense, but I could not get rid of it quickly enough, it was so soulless. It was a Kymco however and not one of those old-school good looking Italian ones ;)
On that note I should mention that my ('61 Puch DS60) scoot's mileage drops from summer's 75+ mpg to 50 mpg in the winter.
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First of all, the timing is spot on the factory setting.
Third, the speedometer reading has nothing to do with the odometer reading. They operate on two separate electrical mechanisms. A measured run is the surest way to check the tripmeter. It sounds like yours is running accurately, but a measured run is the only test I would trust.
Last, are your spark plugs the correct heat range? If they are the proper plugs for the bike, I am pretty sure the mixture is correct, and all the engine control devices are working properly.
Gryphon, good to know, HES position is correct. Plugs are Bosch X5DC, so that is factory standard, I believe. Plugs were like this since I have gotten the bike even though I had massive air leaks, ailing fuel pump, semi-clogged fuel filter, spitting injectors, intake valves too tight, air leaks at the exhaust, alternator barely charging (I corrected all of those since), so I guess the FI system is very robust and can hide quite a lot before throwing in the towel...
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At no time during your ownership of this bike has the mixture been on the rich side according to your plugs. At this point I would take a break from obsessing on l/100k or whatever and patiently wait for the return of warmer weather to check fuel efficiency again.
Meanwhile, I'll try to shake off the feeling that there is something odd about how the variables are being measured that we aren't seeing.
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OK gents... Weather is starting to clever up, so I have decided to do a 60km round trip to visit a new injector cleaners', everybody is raving about. Odo is spot on down to the last decimal, however given the margin of error of the speedo it should have been 5-10% higher, shouldn't it?
The reason for a new cleaning attempt was, that the first place, I have sent my injectors to to be cleaned was strange, they never really said what was exactly done to my injectors, even though I asked for reports, I have never been given one, so on, so forth. Now I know why, basically they did f. all to them. I will get my money back, otherwise it is small claims court, as they must have only replaced the o rings and soaked the bodies in acetone, or something. This place, I went to today proved, what I feared - the injectors were dirty, internal filter was never replaced and they managed to clean plenty of sandy residue out of my three injectors. They did a proper flow chart, shame they did not do one at the beginning, now they are 147ml, 147ml, 150ml. One of my injectors had to be ultrasonically cleaned three times, as after the first two attempts it was still flowing 1/3rd, what the others did. Unfortunately the spray pattern from that one is not perfect either and the plastic body is cracked, so I will have to source one from somewhere... Ebay ones are most likely not suitable, also I need one, not three or four.
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http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5021.0
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Wow! Here's hoping that you have found the problem. It's getting close to riding season.
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I had mine cleaned professionally twice but still had a backfiring problem on overrun. I tracked down and fixed all other contributing factors and fixed them. I then built my own cleaning and test rig and after cleaning and getting even flow and patterns no more backfiring. I also had a definite improvement, more get up and go and probably improved fuel consumption.
Regards Martin.
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I got some injectors at the car wreckers for one of my spare bricks which seem OK but have only riden around the block with them. The injector and part number are almost identical. (part no. 0280 150 208) They were from a six cylinder BMW 520i 1983 model. Also a net search suggests many 90's models as suitable. Some having 4 holes which are supposed to be more economical.
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There are alternate views on 4 hole injectors and there are no posted verified performance tests showing any benefit of the 4 hole type. A mates son who works with injectors said that because of the way they are positioned there would be no benefit. A lot of the seat of pants reports stating that after fitting, I felt a definite improvement would be the same if you cleaned your stock injectors. Cleaned and flow checked my a 150,000 K injectors and felt a definite improvement.The one down side of the four hole injectors is that the holes are a lot smaller and therefore more prone to blocking. Until the one hole versus the four hole is actually dyno tested objectively without bias and the results printed I'll stick to the stock ones.
Some owners have actually reported increased fuel consumption when switching to the four hole ones. I've had my injectors cleaned, supposedly flowed and pattern checked twice and I never felt any improvement. I decided to build a rig for cleaning checking and flow testing. It took a lot of cleaning to get the flow and patterns right using my rig plus an ultrasonic bath and a injector pulsar. Once I got them right the improvement was immediately felt and was noticeable. If I had just fitted four hole injectors I probably would have said the same. I would love someone to do a dyno test cleaned and pattern checked one hole versus four hole.
Regards Martin.
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http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5021.0
I have read various threads, where people were suggesting replacement part numbers for injectors of different cars-trucks and others dishing them, as not suitable, so I am a bit confused. Also if you replace only one, would that cause a mismatch with the other two OEM ones? Are K100 injectors the same? Judging by the part numbers, till '89 they were
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There are alternate views on 4 hole injectors and there are no posted verified performance tests showing any benefit of the 4 hole type. A mates son who works with injectors said that because of the way they are positioned there would be no benefit. A lot of the seat of pants reports stating that after fitting, I felt a definite improvement would be the same if you cleaned your stock injectors. Cleaned and flow checked my a 150,000 K injectors and felt a definite improvement.The one down side of the four hole injectors is that the holes are a lot smaller and therefore more prone to blocking. Until the one hole versus the four hole is actually dyno tested objectively without bias and the results printed I'll stick to the stock ones.
Some owners have actually reported increased fuel consumption when switching to the four hole ones. I've had my injectors cleaned, supposedly flowed and pattern checked twice and I never felt any improvement. I decided to build a rig for cleaning checking and flow testing. It took a lot of cleaning to get the flow and patterns right using my rig plus an ultrasonic bath and a injector pulsar. Once I got them right the improvement was immediately felt and was noticeable. If I had just fitted four hole injectors I probably would have said the same. I would love someone to do a dyno test cleaned and pattern checked one hole versus four hole.
Regards Martin.
Martin, I have realised it a long time ago, if you want something to be done properly, you have to do it yourself.
To be honest, I did not feel a straight yeahaa after cleaning, but it could be, the dodgy injector was throwing my throttle bodies off-balance, which I corrected a while back, and now the balance is offset again because of a properly working troika of injectors. I will get back to the petrol station, where nobody bothers me, if I am poking around my idling bike with a strange concoction of coloured fluid, tubes and posh fruit juice jars :)
As to the hole-theme, I have never seen a dyno test for the different injectors, I am not sure, why nobody ever bothered with it, as there is a lot of discussion on it.
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I have never seen a dyno test for the different injectors, I am not sure, why nobody ever bothered with it, as there is a lot of discussion on it.
If you're referring to a lot of discussion about injectors to be used in the classic K models, that's probably because these are road motos rather than race motos, and many would rather be riding when the moto is running smoothly instead of investing fuel dollars on dyno testing.
Be patient. Somebody will come up with the data, but from what you wrote in your previous post, if you want it to be good data, it seems like you'll need to do it yourself. :yes
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If you're referring to a lot of discussion about injectors to be used in the classic K models, that's probably because these are road motos rather than race motos, and many would rather be riding when the moto is running smoothly instead of investing fuel dollars on dyno testing.
Be patient. Somebody will come up with the data, but from what you wrote in your previous post, if you want it to be good data, it seems like you'll need to do it yourself. :yes
I am referring to the four hole vs. one hole injector debate. Probably you are right, however I have seen dyno tests on various items, including exhausts, so it baffles me, why nobody done it to these injectors, a most vital piece of equipment to fueling. Nevermind though, as I am not planning to upgrade these, only to replace the one in question, as my cash is rather hard earned and I am parting with it only if I really have to :)
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The only problem with doing your own injector testing is you need to use extreme care. You are dealing with explosive vapors and you don't want to set fire to your bike, house, garage or your dog. For safety sake I used an air powered set up. As to why there are no dyno tests out there it's probably not in the best interests of the companies selling the four hole injectors. If you had a product that was supposedly superior wouldn't you want to show dyno proof of it's superiority.
As an interesting aside I had a couple of injectors that wouldn't come clean with various cleaners and injector cleaners these injectors had no flow at all. While getting "O" rings and injector filters at a local European aftermarket car workshop we were talking injectors and I told him about my blocked injectors. He asked me what I was using and I said Wynn's injector cleaner and he revealed that when they clean injectors they use lacquer thinners. It took about three goes but the blocked ones eventually cleared and showed good patterns. They were given to me by a mate had been sitting for about thirty years and he deemed them totally stuffed.
Regards Martin.
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the speedometer reading has nothing to do with the odometer reading. They operate on two separate electrical mechanisms. A measured run is the surest way to check the tripmeter. It sounds like yours is running accurately, but a measured run is the only test I would trust.
Gryph, I was under the impression, the speedometer and the tripmeter are driven by the same stepper motor, that has got the small potentiometer connected to it. If not, that would explain, why my speedo is 5-10% optimistic and the tripmeter is spot on...
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I got some injectors at the car wreckers for one of my spare bricks which seem OK but have only riden around the block with them. The injector and part number are almost identical. (part no. 0280 150 208) They were from a six cylinder BMW 520i 1983 model. Also a net search suggests many 90's models as suitable. Some having 4 holes which are supposed to be more economical.
Dave, I have read, the 318i 1983 uses the same injector, as the K75, so you are probably on the mark with an another 1983 BMW. I am sure, Bosch did not manufacture a VERY specific injector just for these bikes, however form factor, size, securing pin, flow rate, impedance, etc etc has to be taken into account and I am lost with all that data buzzing around my empty head :)
BTW, does anybody has got any ideas, as to what changed in '89 (apart from world order :) )? I might have access to some K100 injectors, but I would need to know, if they are swapable... Flow rate is different, lower in the newer type injectors, but were they changed because of some environmental legislation? (if everything remains the same, including the computer, the newer injectors must have run leaner) Or did they swap to Motronic at that time?
K75 injectors and K100 injectors up to '89 - 13 64 1 460 450
K100 injectors after '89, K1, K1100, K1200- 13 64 1 461 523
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Dave, I have read, the 318i 1983 uses the same injector, as the K75, so you are probably on the mark with an another 1983 BMW. I am sure, Bosch did not manufacture a VERY specific injector just for these bikes, however form factor, size, securing pin, flow rate, impedance, etc etc has to be taken into account and I am lost with all that data buzzing around my empty head :)
BTW, does anybody has got any ideas, as to what changed in '89 (apart from world order :) )? I might have access to some K100 injectors, but I would need to know, if they are swapable... Flow rate is different, lower in the newer type injectors, but were they changed because of some environmental legislation? (if everything remains the same, including the computer, the newer injectors must have run leaner) Or did they swap to Motronic at that time?
K75 injectors and K100 injectors up to '89 - 13 64 1 460 450
K100 injectors after '89, K1, K1100, K1200- 13 64 1 461 523
OK, to answer my own question, BMW switched to Motronic and 16v at the time (according to Adam Wade's Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook) (...) The LE Jetronic fuel injection system with separate ignition management was replaced by Motronic engine management with the introduction of four-valve cylinder heads with the 1990 K1 and the 1991 K100RS
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I did two searches for my alternate injectors for specifications, one almost identical to the originals, the other a bit different. I have put them in my '85 model, my only registered bike (I have a stack of bricks now) I will compare them for fuel economy, I think that's a good test for suitability.
Often just looking at injectors is a big help for comparison.
I have some four hole injectors too, eventually ill put them in as a test also.
I lost my license six weeks ago for speeding, that's going to improve my fuel economy too, another six weeks to go.
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Gryph, I was under the impression, the speedometer and the tripmeter are driven by the same stepper motor, that has got the small potentiometer connected to it. If not, that would explain, why my speedo is 5-10% optimistic and the tripmeter is spot on...
The pulses from the pickup in the final drive are split into two paths in the cluster.
One path goes to a circuit that converts the frequency of the pulses into a voltage/current that goes to the meter movement in the speedo. The voltage/current deflects the needle to indicate the speed you are moving at. The higher the frequency of the pulses, the higher the voltage/current going to the meter movement and the more the needle will swing up the speed scale indicating higher speed.
The other path sends the pulses to a synchronous motor that converts them into rotation. The higher the frequency of the pulses the faster the motor turns the odometer/tripmeter gears to register distance.
The calibration of the odometer motor is fixed by the number of poles but the circuit that controls the speedometer needle deflection is adjustable to allow for mechanical variations in the meter movement that indicates the speed. Because of this, the odometer is always spot on, while the speed readings can be anywhere within the calibration range of the circuitry. As the bike comes from the factory the speedo is about 8-10% high, but the odometer is spot on.
While there are ways to calibrate the speedo to an external signal from a soldering iron or Karamba software, I have found that turning the calibration pot all the way to the stop gets my speedometers very close to perfect. Wish I could remember whether it's clockwise or anti-clockwise.
Bottom line is that regardless of what the speedo is saying, the odometer SHOULD BE accurate. Both instruments depend on a good signal from the final drive pickup. From time to time you should pull the pickup and clean the face of it to remove any metal particles that may be on it. These particles can affect the accuracy of the instruments.
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"I lost my license six weeks ago for speeding, that's going to improve my fuel economy too, another six weeks to go."
How does it work where you are? Guessing not your first offense?
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In Victoria you get penalty points for different offences, twelve points and you lose your license, but if you exceed the speed limit by 25km/h (~16mph), you lose your license regardless. That's the first time it's happened to me, although I have lost points in the past for smaller scale speeding. I was doing 130 in a 100 zone. (~81 mph in a ~62 zone)
Speeding was something that never interested me until about six months after I got a brick, I'm not much interested in doing these "compression tests" anymore. Naturally the fuel economy dropped compared to when I first started riding it. I think bricks are exceptional in being able to do 200km/h and 20km/lt, but they can't do both at the same time.
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The pulses from the pickup in the final drive are split into two paths in the cluster...
The other path sends the pulses to a synchronous motor that converts them into rotation. The higher the frequency of the pulses the faster the motor turns the odometer/tripmeter gears to register distance.
Wish I could remember whether it's clockwise or anti-clockwise.
From time to time you should pull the pickup and clean the face of it to remove any metal particles that may be on it. These particles can affect the accuracy of the instruments.
Gryphon, thanks! I have not seen your answer, as I must have turned off notifications for this thread by accident, or something...
It is anti-clockwise, I did it with a soldering iron, but you are correct, potentiometer hitting it's stop is approximately the right amount of correction. I left mine registering just a hair - 1-2kph more, than truth, cops around here are a pain in the arse and they fine you if you are over by a very small amount. My tripmeter is not smooth, but jumps, hence I thought there is a stepper motor inside, probably something is amiss, however I measured today yet another 30km's and it was again very precise. I might need to dig out the sensor anyway, as it's cable is getting brittle and I fear, it will crack at the most inconvenient of times.
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OK, fuel consumption did not change much since having the injectors done. I have noticed, my header pipes turned blue, before they were more yellow-honey coloured. I have not checked the plugs as yet, will do so tomorrow.
After a 2-300 km's I can now say for sure, 'backfiring' upon coasting is back, I did not have had any of that since changing the muffler fairy dust seal. I also tried to re-balance the throttle bodies, but it was perfect, so it appears, injector cleanliness has got nothing to do with the balance :)
So if the plugs will be good, what else is there to try? Brakes I will check soon again, I do not like their operation especially whilst wet, the front basically becoming half power in the rain and the rear brake must be still dragging.
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If the plugs look good with a nice tan color on the nose, I would wonder if the engine is running cold and not warming to proper operating temperature. That could be caused by a thermostat that is stuck open and cooling the engine too much in the cool weather. Beyond that, I am stumped. It will be interesting to see if consumption goes down when the weather warms up as summer approaches
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I found that in order to eliminate backfiring on over run I had to do the following. 1/ Correctly adjust TPS. 2/ Eliminate vacuum leaks. 3/ Eliminate exhaust leaks at the fairy dust gasket. 5/ Correctly adjust the mixture 6/ Shut the throttle when coasting on overrun. 7/ And the final piece in the puzzle, get the correct spray pattern on the injectors.
Early on when I first got my bike I had the mixture adjusted there times unsuccessfully, I ended up buying my own exhaust gas analyser $300.00 Au I think. Had my injectors cleaned professionally twice no difference, I then built my own cleaning test rig and got the correct flow and pattern which totally stopped the backfiring. However since then I have run with the TPS disconnected as it reduces the jerkiness at low speed and it will backfire occasionally. I'm willing to put up with this due to it is easier to ride at slow speed. Lately I have been thinking of putting a switch into the circuit so I can switch it on and off. The other idea is to reconnect the switch and adjust it so it doesn't work in the early part.
Regards Martin.
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You could also be wasting money if you have your injectors cleaned. And you don't make sure your rail is clean, and replace your hoses and filter. Or at the very least make sure you hoses are not breaking down and contributing to blockages. When I cleaned mine I replaced all the hoses and the filter.
Regards Martin.
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Turn the rear wheel by hand, there will be minimum resistance, then apply and release the rear brake. Turn the wheel again, the resistance should be the same. Check on other occasions also.
The pipes turned blue, that is something to worry about. It's a sign of overheating. All three? Think of the things you did before that and reconsider them. Are they the right injectors? I'm thinking it's not a good idea to replace only one injector, keep them all the same. Maybe double check the hall sensors (in case they are loose) as wrong timing would effect all three cylinders. I think you pinched the outlet of the fuel return line inside the tank, in a previous thread. Consider opening it up again.
What is the final drive ratio? The standard for your bike is 32/10, that is 3.2:1. From memory this will result in speedo and tacho needles being parallel in fifth gear.
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GUYS, thank you very much for your replies. I do not know, how to turn back the notifications for this thread, I thought, nobody is bothered with my ongoing crap, it turns out quite a lot of you are...
Anyway, I'll attach pictures of my header pipes and the plugs. Plugs, again, look pretty much the same, probably a bit richer, but still nice tan coloured. There is oil on the threads of one of the plugs, but it could have been oil seeping past rings, whilst bike was on the sidestand.
Dave - there is little resitance and slight dragging at the rear wheel, and the bike is easy to push. But as we discussed in an another thread the brakes must be dragging whilst the bike is on the move, as the rear rotor gets hot to the touch even if not used. I have sourced a low mileage rear rotor for a song, so I will replace that and check, if it is not warpage or such, that is making the rotor touching (as the whole brake fluid path - master cylinder, pipes, caliper etc were serviced very thoroughly 4-500 kilometres ago). I did not replace one injector, I have sourced a original K75 one and I will keep it with me just in case the one with the cracked plastic body bites the dust. I did open the fuel return line, when I had this problem with the burning fuses, even though fuel was flowing just fine with the pinched line. I do not know, where to check the ratio, I had a poke around the final drive, but could not see any numbers anywhere. Probably I need to clean parts a bit more thoroughly :) In fifth gear gauges move in unison, however tach needle is sitting higher than the speedo
Martin - TPS clicks, as it should and upon releasing the throttle rpm drops for a fraction of a second nearly to zero before bouncing back, so I guess it tells the computer to shut of the injectors, as it should. Fuel hoses and fuel filter were replaced very recently, back in September - October time, some 1000 kilometres ago. I did not check rail however, I might do that too in the near future.
As far as I am aware, I do not have any vacuum leaks anymore, I used to have massive ones, but I replaced quite a few parts and now RPM stays the same, no matter how much starting fluid or carb cleaner is hosed down on the joints. Exhaust gasket too was replaced recently, just when I serviced my clutch splines and the muffler had to come off anyway. BTW backfire is not the right word, it is more like bubbling, or slight afterburn when throttle is closed and bike is coasting. I am not too keen on buying yet another set of specialised equipment but it would be interesting to see my CO2 levels (alongside some other stuff, fuel pressure, compression, etc, but stuff is veeeery slow to arrive from China).
Gryphon - I've never checked the thermostat, so that is another thing to test. It is very balmy here at the moment, as it is unseasonably warm with 15-20C. I would think, this temperature is just about ideal for our engines. Also whilst I had the Tucano installed, bike gone as warm, as it would in early summer, actually making me remember, how it was burning my legs back in August :)
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Gab, the plugs look very good. So good compared to mine that they make me envious. They indicate a good fuel/air mixture. Are they the correct heat range? A hotter plug running in a rich mixture can give a good reading while using a lot of fuel.
The final drive ratio is stamped on the top of the final drive near where the drive shaft is attached. The numbers are not very large and lightly stamped into the casting, so they can be hard to spot.
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Bubbling, burbling and or rumbling is fine, and is part of the bike character. I personally think it's declaring it's happiness at being out and about and being well cared for. But on the other hand I could be quite mad, MAD, MAD I say OOO HA HA HAR. Sorry about that I'll go take my medication.
Regards a recovering Martin.
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Gab, the plugs look very good. So good compared to mine that they make me envious. They indicate a good fuel/air mixture. Are they the correct heat range?
The final drive ratio is stamped on the top of the final drive near where the drive shaft is attached. The numbers are not very large and lightly stamped into the casting, so they can be hard to spot.
Gryphon, thanks, that's reassuring (however I am baffled as to why my fuel consumption is not like yours... Oh well, a good amount of things are still to be checked). The plugs are factory standard Bosch X5DC's.
I have found the ratio stamped on, it is very faint indeed, but it shows 32/10, so as Dave pointed out it is the correct one for my bike.
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Bubbling, burbling and or rumbling is fine, and is part of the bike character. I personally think it's declaring it's happiness at being out and about and being well cared for.
Haha, I never thought of that sound being a K75 purring, but I will not bother myself anymore with it then :) Same as for the whistle of the fuel pump, first it drove me crazy, now I do not hear it anymore (especially since the cicadas left my tank)...
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Personally, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in final drive ratios. My experience is that they don't affect fuel efficiency that much. I don't think a dragging brake will reduce efficiency as much as you're experiencing either. If it was, I would expect the rear end of the bike to be bursting into flame.
Have you checked valve clearances? I can't recall if you have. I have to admit that I'm grasping at straws right now. The only other thing that I can think of is a slow leak. A leak of 2-3 liters per tankful is unlikely, but possible. Leakage rate, if that is the problem, would be on the order of 1/2 liter per hour of operation. If it is coming out the vent hose you may smell and/or see some fuel around the swing arm and final drive following a ride.
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Gabe you are starting to get it, embrace the 75's uniqueness. It is unlike any other bike and the better for. I've had mine for 21 years, while mates swap bikes every couple of years. I'll stick with mine to the end.
Regards martin.
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I think it's important to reverse whatever caused the pipes to turn blue.
Find the cause of the brake disc getting hot, even when not used. Turn the wheel, is there any binding? Brake pedal fee play correct? Brake lever free play correct? Check also while hot. Wheel turns freely when disc hot?
Your bike may be over reving. You should have 4000RPM at 100km/h Maybe your clutch is slipping. I suppose you have the right tyre. Do you have 75mm inner clutch cable length at gearbox? Correct free play at lever, adjusted from push rod? If so, in fifth, foot hard on brake pedal, 2000RPM, let clutch out; the engine should stall.
Do the test only as a last resort.
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I think it's important to reverse whatever caused the pipes to turn blue.
Find the cause of the brake disc getting hot, even when not used. Turn the wheel, is there any binding? Brake pedal fee play correct? Brake lever free play correct? Check also while hot. Wheel turns freely when disc hot?
Your bike may be over reving. You should have 4000RPM at 100km/h Maybe your clutch is slipping. I suppose you have the right tyre. Do you have 75mm inner clutch cable length at gearbox? Correct free play at lever, adjusted from push rod? If so, in fifth, foot hard on brake pedal, 2000RPM, let clutch out; the engine should stall.
Do the test only as a last resort.
Dave - the only thing, I could do to reverse this to source some dirty injectors and run them instead of the freshly cleaned ones :)
Rear rotor I replaced today morning before going on a trip of +/- 15 miles. Needless to say, I forgot to test the brake, so a non operational rear brake surprised me a bit down the road, fortunately in a non-catastrophic situation... Anyway, once I pumped it a bit and lightly dragged the rear brake for a while the pads embedded themselves to the new rotor and brake operation is restored to normal. It appears to me, this rotor + pads combo works better, than the old one, as the rotor is not getting too warm after a ride, also it feels like bike is easier to push around. The old one was an ABS rotor, the 'new' a non-ABS one (I have no ABS installed on this bike), it should not make a difference, but it most likely does (however I will report back after a tankful or so, as we all new, how subjective these things are).
4000RPM is 81-82 km/h on the adjusted speedo. Clutch operation is faultless, cable length, free play all set to factory standard. Clutch is not slipping and I have tried your last resort incidentally yesterday, in rush hour traffic I was coasting towards a hard turn in fifth gear, forgot about it and let go of the clutch whilst already maneuvering into the curve at 5-10MPH. Bike stalled, nearly dropping me off, fortunately I managed to squeeze the clutch, saving the bike and my butt :)
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Haha Laitch, fair point :)
All is back to normal, I must have turned it off meaning to turn off another thread that is driving me bonkers at times :)
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I think it's important to reverse whatever caused the pipes to turn blue.
Find the cause of the brake disc getting hot, even when not used. Turn the wheel, is there any binding? Brake pedal fee play correct? Brake lever free play correct? Check also while hot. Wheel turns freely when disc hot?
Your bike may be over reving. You should have 4000RPM at 100km/h Maybe your clutch is slipping. I suppose you have the right tyre. Do you have 75mm inner clutch cable length at gearbox? Correct free play at lever, adjusted from push rod? If so, in fifth, foot hard on brake pedal, 2000RPM, let clutch out; the engine should stall.
Do the test only as a last resort.
Dave - the only thing, I could do to reverse this to source some dirty injectors and run them instead of the freshly cleaned ones :)
Rear rotor I replaced today morning before going on a trip of +/- 15 miles. Needless to say, I forgot to test the brake, so a non operational rear brake surprised me a bit down the road, fortunately in a non-catastrophic situation... Anyway, once I pumped it a bit and lightly dragged the rear brake for a while the pads embedded themselves to the new rotor and brake operation is restored to normal. It appears to me, this rotor + pads combo works better, than the old one, as the rotor is not getting too warm after a ride, also it feels like bike is easier to push around. The old one was an ABS rotor, the 'new' a non-ABS one (I have no ABS installed on this bike), it should not make a difference, but it most likely does (however I will report back after a tankful or so, as we all new, how subjective these things are).
4000RPM is 81-82 km/h on the adjusted speedo. Clutch operation is faultless, cable length, free play all set to factory standard. Clutch is not slipping and I have tried your last resort incidentally yesterday, in rush hour traffic I was coasting towards a hard turn in fifth gear, forgot about it and let go of the clutch whilst already maneuvering into the curve at 5-10MPH. Bike stalled, nearly dropping me off, fortunately I managed to squeeze the clutch, saving the bike and my butt :)
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Personally, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in final drive ratios. My experience is that they don't affect fuel efficiency that much. I don't think a dragging brake will reduce efficiency as much as you're experiencing either. If it was, I would expect the rear end of the bike to be bursting into flame.
Have you checked valve clearances? I can't recall if you have. I have to admit that I'm grasping at straws right now. The only other thing that I can think of is a slow leak. A leak of 2-3 liters per tankful is unlikely, but possible. Leakage rate, if that is the problem, would be on the order of 1/2 liter per hour of operation. If it is coming out the vent hose you may smell and/or see some fuel around the swing arm and final drive following a ride.
Gryphon, when on my 400cc Honda I obsessed about gear ratios, swapped a perfectly good set of chain and cog wheels in order to find out it did not do ANYTHING to my fuel consumption even though it made high speed travel a bit less buzzing (but speeding off from traffic lights a chore). Valve clearances were checked, intake sides were a bit tight, but that was sorted out over the winter. I did have the bike ticking over for extended periods (15-20 minutes at a time) to set throttle bodies balance, etc. There was never any fuel coming out of the overflow pipe, so I guess that is somewhat ruled out. ALso the bike is parked in a narrow corridor so it would reek like a petrol station if I'd have any leaks after a ride :)))
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Keep us posted on how much fuel you are using. I know I'l be thinking of what could be causing your problem.
Have a feeling it's going to be a palm to forehead moment when you find it.
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Check the vacuum hose that supplies the FPR where it goes into the throttle body for fuel traces.
Regards Martin.
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Km on odo? Km genuine? Tyre standard?
Your getting 6.3lt/100km, that's ok.
At 4000 RPM you have 82km/h, I'm thinking you should have 100. Maybe adjust it back to original, or with a helper driving in front with cruise control at 100, do a check, maybe with a few cars.
If I replaced the injectors on my bike and the headers turned blue, I would take them straight out again.
Can we see a photo of your bike, has it got a name? Mines bluey, my k75 is in storage, I can't get to it for a few weeks.
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Km on odo? Km genuine? Tyre standard?
Your getting 6.3lt/100km, that's ok.
At 4000 RPM you have 82km/h, I'm thinking you should have 100. Maybe adjust it back to original, or with a helper driving in front with cruise control at 100, do a check, maybe with a few cars.
If I replaced the injectors on my bike and the headers turned blue, I would take them straight out again.
Can we see a photo of your bike, has it got a name? Mines bluey, my k75 is in storage, I can't get to it for a few weeks.
Hi Dave, unfortunately I am not getting 6.3l/100km, as the fuelly stats are distorted by readings, that are not necessarily correct. Check individual fuel ups, last for example was 6.9l/100km, or 34 US MPG, which is not very good, given the longish distances covered and weather playing ball. Injectors I can not swap, as those were the only ones, I had (apart from the "new" one, I bought as a spare). See picture of the header pipes, they are not indigo blue, but have got a blue tint to them. Plugs read fine and if I am correct, blue tint means too rich mixture, that makes engine colder rather than warmer...
I will attach a pic of the bike, it is not named anything, sometimes out of anger I call it the flying piece of shit, but that's all :)
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It might get better mileage without the steamer trunk attached to the rear cowl. :giggles
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Keep us posted on how much fuel you are using. I know I'l be thinking of what could be causing your problem.
Have a feeling it's going to be a palm to forehead moment when you find it.
I hope you are right about that. It should be already here if you ask me :D
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Check the vacuum hose that supplies the FPR where it goes into the throttle body for fuel traces.
Regards Martin.
Vacuum hose has been replaced within the last half a year with a new item together with fuel hoses, crankcase breather, big elbow, air collector box, rubber bushings, vacuum caps, air filter, fuel filter, fuel pump, tires, driveshaft etc etc etc... I am running out of options I am afraid :) Something is not dandy, that is for sure, I just hope, Gryphon is right and tomorrow or to-tomorrow the latest I will trace it to something very obvious...
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It might get better mileage without the steamer trunk attached to the rear cowl. :giggles
Yeah, I hear you, it is very ugly. Since I have replaced it with an even bigger, uglier and boxier concoction from Givi, an E45. People think, I am a delivery boy or something, however I need to keep my helmet and assorted crap somewhere safe, whilst out and about. I was also lugging the city cases with me for a while till I realised all it is good for to make me wider and to carry even more unnecessary crap, so they stay at home nowadays :)
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The diaphragm in the FPR can leak causing fuel to be sucked into the throttle body. Minor leaks can increase fuel consumption a major leak can lead to a hydraulic lock with a possible bent conrod. Pull the hose where it goes into the throttle body and check for fuel.
Regards Martin.
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The diaphragm in the FPR can leak causing fuel to be sucked into the throttle body. Minor leaks can increase fuel consumption a major leak can lead to a hydraulic lock with a possible bent conrod. Pull the hose where it goes into the throttle body and check for fuel.
Regards Martin.
OK, fair enough. I will do that tomorrow... So is it fuel visible sloshing around the throttle bodies straight after bike was running, or fuel coming out of the vacuum hose, whilst bike running?
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Coming out of the vacuum hose. Simply put there is diaphragm in the FPR on one side there is fuel on the other side there is a vacuum the diaphragm can deteriorate and weep or leak. See picture.
Regards Martin.
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I'm thinking the average fuel economy is more accurate than an individual reading. Do you compare the fuel against the distance that has been travelled or the distance that will be?
If the readings are questionable, maybe your fuel economy is good.
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Rear rotor I replaced today morning before going on a trip of +/- 15 miles.
Should we assume these were European miles (10 Km) or American miles?
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And "today morning" is a funny European way of saying this morning.
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And "today morning" is a funny European way of saying this morning.
Martin - I let the bike run without the vacuum hose attached, it was dry even after a couple of minutes of idling with the occasional blip of the throttle
Dave, I am not sure, if today morning is grammatically correct... You say it this way in Hungarian :)
Robert, I just divided 24km's by 1.6, so I guess it is nearer to US and UK miles...
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It's OK, your English is incredibly good, some things just translate funny, even more funny in german:
Today; heute
Morning; morgen
This morning; heute morgen
Tomorrow; morgen
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If the plugs look good with a nice tan color on the nose, I would wonder if the engine is running cold and not warming to proper operating temperature. That could be caused by a thermostat that is stuck open and cooling the engine too much in the cool weather.
OK, we might be up to something. I have parts of the fairing in for repaint so I have decided to take the thermostat out, remove the radiator to check for dirt in the cooling matrix, etc. It turns out, the thermostat u-gasket, that wraps around the thermostat body is brittle with age, it is cracked in one place in fact. Somebody has been already at it sealing it with black RTV, needless to say with not much success, as parts of RTV were stuck in the springs looking like seaweed. I just really hope, there is not RTV circulating in the system eventually blocking coolant flow.
Anyway, I tested the thermostat, and it opens and closes as it should, so I cleaned the old gasket and thermostat body and reinstalled it, hoping there will not be much of coolant passage around the faulty gasket. As I have refilled the system it also filled the radiator audibly, so I guess the faulty gasket is not sealing at all, or it does so very little.
I did try to research into a suitable u gasket, as there is no BMW reference number for it, but I did not succeed. Anybody has got any idea, what fits?
Thanks!
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As I have refilled the system it also filled the radiator audibly, so I guess the faulty gasket is not sealing at all, or it does so very little.
<translate on>Yo Bro! I fill the rad with fluid and it made a nice gurgling sound as it filled up. Probably means the passages are clear. Dog, gonna take a chance the RTV stuff didn't mess up my rad.<translate off>
Please turn it back on, and leave it on. :giggles
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Please turn it back on, and leave it on. :giggles
Laitch, before I first started the engine, I went to check , if the gurgling sound is indeed the system filling with coolant or the radiator did too. I have undone the radiator hose and coolant trickled out, so I guess that shows, the thermostat is not doing what it supposed to, e. g. keeping coolant from the radiator till proper operating temperature. Also trying to follow Haynes' procedure of letting the engine tick over, till the thermostat opens and fluid level drops in the filler neck I let the bike idle for 15 minutes, but the coolant level remained just the same. After a longish city ride I have checked again, fluid level is the same....
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Laitch, before I first started the engine, I went to check , if the gurgling sound. . . .
I was referring to the <translate> function. :giggles I don't think there's anything wrong with your engine other than it hasn't been run enough. Let us know how it's doing after 5000 miles of riding.
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The thermostat doesn't stop coolant entering the radiator, it stops circulation while cold. The level didn't drop because you filled it properly and slowly, so there were no trapped air pockets.
There may or may not be a loose toggle "thingo" on the thermostat, position it uppermost so that air bubbles can pass through allowing the system to self bleed. Keep looking and you will find a supplier for parts, it's good to find one close-by.
The thing that would worry me is the injectors, check the part number and how much fuel they flow. Check the accuracy of the speedo and the other suggestions that aren't verified yet.
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The thermostat doesn't stop coolant entering the radiator, it stops circulation while cold. The level didn't drop because you filled it properly and slowly, so there were no trapped air pockets.
There may or may not be a loose toggle "thingo" on the thermostat, position it uppermost so that air bubbles can pass through allowing the system to self bleed. Keep looking and you will find a supplier for parts, it's good to find one close-by.
The thing that would worry me is the injectors, check the part number and how much fuel they flow. Check the accuracy of the speedo and the other suggestions that aren't verified yet.
Dave, thanks for your answer. The injectors are factory standard as discussed before, flowing 150,147,147ml or thereabouts. Speedo and tripmeter are again very accurate. Haynes states to fill the system with coolant and wait till the engine reaches operating temperature, hence opening the thermostat. When this happens, radiator is filled with coolant and you should top up. As I understand this, thermostat is closed till 82 or so degrees Centigrade, so if you fill the system with cold coolant, it should not fill the radiator?
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I was referring to the <translate> function. :giggles I don't think there's anything wrong with your engine other than it hasn't been run enough. Let us know how it's doing after 5000 miles of riding.
Laitch, if I do not have an engine operating at correct temperature, because the thermostat is leaking into the radiator I can seriously f*ck up the engine in less than 5000 miles. So I better keep looking for solutions (minus replacing an otherwise perfectly working thermostat with an expensive new part, because I could not source a 1$ piece of rubber) :)
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Your filler neck goes straight into your radiator, the thermostat can't stop that, it only stops radiator circulation while cold. Have a closer look at the other suggestions too.
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Laitch, if I do not have an engine operating at correct temperature, because the thermostat is leaking into the radiator I can seriously f*ck up the engine in less than 5000 miles. So I better keep looking for solutions (minus replacing an otherwise perfectly working thermostat with an expensive new part, because I could not source a 1$ piece of rubber) :)
How much do you believe that thermostat is leaking? Have you taken the temperature of the coolant when it should be warmed up and discovered it is drastically cooler than it should be?
If you're serious about protecting the engine because the thermostat is leaking, you'll buy the correct thermostat or try what has been suggested and used by others already instead of trying to cobble together something. The K engine is a precision machine so it shouldn't be treated like a donkey cart or Lada.. :giggles
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You said you had access to k100 injectors with a lower flow rate, then you said you replaced the injectors, then your headers turned blue. Running lean will cause overheating, make your headers turn blue and finally could cause your valves and seats to burn out. Get injectors that suit your 2V k75, not injectors that suit a 4V k100. A supplier may sell you something that they say suits your bike, but sometimes it pays to check the part number to be sure.
Either your bike is over reving or your speedo is out, or both.
It's probably better to put stuff back to original.
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How much do you believe that thermostat is leaking? Have you taken the temperature of the coolant when it should be warmed up and discovered it is drastically cooler than it should be?
I do not know. However I thought a radiator, that is not staying empty till operating temperature is reached was a good enough indicator. Looking at the radiator itself and not schematics I see, that the filler tube is directly connected to the rad, so I am not sure, what Haynes is on about...
If you're serious about protecting the engine because the thermostat is leaking, you'll buy the correct thermostat or try what has been suggested and used by others already instead of trying to cobble together something. The K engine is a precision machine so it shouldn't be treated like a donkey cart or Lada.. :giggles
OK, so following your cobbling together logic, I should replace whole assemblies, because of faulty parts, new injectors because O-rings are leaking, or a new engine, because of a failed main shaft seal?
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You said you had access to k100 injectors with a lower flow rate, then you said you replaced the injectors, then your headers turned blue. Running lean will cause overheating, make your headers turn blue and finally could cause your valves and seats to burn out. Get injectors that suit your 2V k75, not injectors that suit a 4V k100. A supplier may sell you something that they say suits your bike, but sometimes it pays to check the part number to be sure.
Either your bike is over reving or your speedo is out, or both.
It's probably better to put stuff back to original.
Dave, there is some misunderstanding here. I have never said, I have access to K100 injectors, we were merely discussing the difference between 2V and 4V injectors. My injectors are the original ones, they have been cleaned and flow tested. My pipes turned blue-ish afterwards, however since posting the photos of it, I have been told, they are well within range, so I was worrying about nothing (as usual). As to why the difference in the gauge needles is unknown to me, the cluster is off a police version of a K75RT and it could have had a different ratio, however the tripmeter and speedo are very precise.
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OK so it sounds like you took the injectors out, had them cleaned and put them back in. That doesn't always mean they are original with the part number 0280150210.
Check the part number!
A previous owner may have changed them, but more so I'm losing confidence in the guy you payed to clean them, especially if he was the one that said they're OK. Maybe he just gave you some OK second hand ones, which explains why they turned blue. It's only a consideration at this point. Check if they have one hole or four.
Find out if you speedo is wrong or your tacho, or, if they're good, your bike is over reving, reducing fuel economy.
If there are any trapped air bubbles in the radiator while filling the coolant, they can't escape until it starts circulating. This happens after the thermostat opens, so then requires topping up, I think this is the point made by Haynes.
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Find out if you speedo is wrong or your tacho, or, if they're good, your bike is over reving, reducing fuel economy.
If there are any trapped air bubbles while filling the coolant, they can't escape until it starts circulating. This happens after the thermostat opens, so then requires topping up, I think this is the point made by Haynes.
Daveson, he did some measured runs a couple weeks ago, and the odometer checked out perfect. As far as Haynes, from past experience, I wouldn't trust anything in that manual unless I read it somewhere else.
Regarding the thermostat, as long as it is opening and CLOSING properly, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. The reason I mentioned the thermostat earlier was that if it was stuck open in cold weather the engine would have a tendency to run a bit rich. The plug readings and the successful test confirmed that it was operating properly.
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. . . I thought a radiator, that is not staying empty till operating temperature is reached was a good enough indicator.
A good enough indicator of what? This statement might indicate a translation problem.
The radiator shouldn't be empty, regardless of whether the engine's operating temperature has been reached. It should be filled with lower temperature coolant that isn't circulating until necessary. When the thermostat opens, hot coolant displaces the existing coolant and enters the radiator to be cooled by circulation through the radiator. The displaced radiator coolant—that is already at a lower temperature—enters the engine to immediately begin lowering the engine temperature by absorbing heat. To repair systems effectively, it's helpful to learn how they operate.
When a cooling system is recharged with replacement coolant, the system is filled with the thermostat open, which means coolant fills the radiator, the hoses and the engine water jackets. When the main system is filled and purged of air, the radiator is capped then coolant is added to the reservoir to reach a level between the Max and Min levels marked on the reservoir.
It isn't unusual for instructions to be misunderstood. One impediment in your case is an occasional language barrier. I use three manuals and cross-reference them for instructions when one of them seems unclear to me.
. . . I should replace whole assemblies, because of faulty parts, new injectors because O-rings are leaking, or a new engine, because of a failed main shaft seal?
Injector o-rings, shaft o-rings and seals were designed to be replaced. The thermostat o-ring wasn't. Those are significant differences that seem to elude your understanding. Our motos' thermostat o-rings differ because they clasp the perimeter of a thermostat's flange. Somewhere somebody might have replaced that o-ring using a different o-ring, silicone sealant, superglue, some effort, some patience and experimentation because they understood how the system worked, needed to get it done and didn't have the luxury of spare time for theorizing. If their effort creating an OEM o-ring substitute has been successful, I haven't yet found it on the Internet. They might just be out riding instead of writing.
Substitute thermostats have been tried and have been described on this site. Only your personal effort at experimentation will determine what is possible within your situation.
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Hi Gryph, yep his odometer seems good, but at 4000RPM he is doing 82km/h, I'm thinking he should be doing 100km/h. Something is wrong somewhere. I can't get to my k75 for a while, to verify this. Hopefully someone can chime in.
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When it comes to estimating appropriate speed for each gear, it's probably best to rely on information provided by a technician experienced with these motos.
Here's Anton Largiader's interactive table (http://www.largiader.com/articles/gearing/) where the final drive ratio can be chosen, then in the lower section a performance graph for the chosen ratio can be accessed .
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A good enough indicator of what? This statement might indicate a translation problem.
The radiator shouldn't be empty, regardless of whether the engine's operating temperature has been reached.
When a cooling system is recharged with replacement coolant, the system is filled with the thermostat open, which means coolant fills the radiator, the hoses and the engine water jackets. When the main system is filled and purged of air, the radiator is capped then coolant is added to the reservoir to reach a level between the Max and Min levels marked on the reservoir.
Laitch, water cooling is new territory to me, but as you might have already noticed I am happy to learn about new things, so thanks for clarification. I do try to cross-reference, but in this case Clymers was very vague about the refilling procedure. What Haynes writes in these very words is this: "Start the engine and allow it to idle until it has warmed up to normal operating temperature (...) As soon as thermostat opens, revealed by the sudden steady flow of coolant across the radiator and by a warm top hose, the level will drop again and more air will be expelled in the form of bubbles" Now since I have had none of that, no sudden rush of coolant or levels of fluid dropping I assumed the thermostat does not do, what it supposed to. I have a 'properly' operating engine with shite fuel consumption, so something must be astray. All I am trying to do is to find the cause.
Injector o-rings, shaft o-rings and seals were designed to be replaced. The thermostat o-ring wasn't. Those are significant differences that seem to elude your understanding. Our motos' thermostat o-rings differ because they clasp the perimeter of a thermostat's flange. Somewhere somebody might have replaced that o-ring using a different o-ring, silicone sealant, superglue, some effort, some patience and experimentation because they understood how the system worked, needed to get it done and didn't have the luxury of spare time for theorizing. If their effort creating an OEM o-ring substitute has been successful, I haven't yet found it on the Internet. They might just be out riding instead of writing.
Yeah, probably. however sites like K100 (http://www.k100-forum.com/t7589-thermostat-gasket-not-o-ring (http://www.k100-forum.com/t7589-thermostat-gasket-not-o-ring)), has got various discussion on the theme. I guess, people try not to get futtbucked by BMW telling them not having simple spare parts, when there should be some. After all, you can buy the U-gaskets to a large quantity of thermostats, so most likely there is one to this one too, unless this thermostat is one of those very special BMW issue ones...
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As far as Haynes, from past experience, I wouldn't trust anything in that manual unless I read it somewhere else.
Regarding the thermostat, as long as it is opening and CLOSING properly, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. The reason I mentioned the thermostat earlier was that if it was stuck open in cold weather the engine would have a tendency to run a bit rich. The plug readings and the successful test confirmed that it was operating properly.
Oh OK Gryph, thanks! I am hanging on to those very straws you guys are suggesting as my consumption is just as crappy as before... Clymers looks to be a better workshop book, however at times I end up using the Haynes, as it is what I used every time in the past and I keep forgetting, we are pampered with a broad selection of publications for these bikes
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I assumed . . .
Don't assume, verify. It takes knowledge and understanding to assume and, even then, it can be a trap. You don't know if your engine is running cold. You don't know if the thermostat is stuck open. If your moto's engine is cold and if the radiator is filled up to the base of the filler and the air in the system has been purged, then leave the radiator cap off and start your engine. If the coolant isn't swirling, the thermostat is closed; when the coolant starts swirling, the thermostat is open. The swirling is caused by the water pump pushing coolant through the system. At that point, you could measure the temp of the coolant and put the result in your diary. How long this process will take can vary. Give it 15 minutes anyway. This is what was done in ancient times in the land of the rotary dial.
You have many alternatives. If you removed the thermostat, dropped it in water, heated the water with a thermometer in it and discovered that it both opened and closed fully at approximately the correct temperature, you could reinstall it and try to seal it with one of the ways about which you have read, and live with what you've got. You could make yourself a gasket. You seem to think it will only cost a dollar or so. You could install one of the alternative T-stats mentioned. You can buy a new OEM. You could always temporarily wire a temperature gauge attach to a sensor installed to the water pump to assess things but that is yet more expense. There comes a time for stepping up and actually doing something—that is, once the condition needing treatment has been verified. This might be the time for you. It's scary, I know.
I don't see any payoff for complaining about the lack of an OEM part you think the manufacturer should be supplying you. That ship has sailed.
Like I, and others, stated ages ago in this convoluted thread, engines within vehicles in good shape can experience ±15% drop in fuel economy during cold weather or stop-and-go driving. Gryph's moto has been well-ridden and well-maintained. It's inappropriate to use his or any moto owned by an experienced, long distance K rider for comparison. The jury is still out on whether the arithmetic concerning your fuel economy is being done correctly, even with all the help you're getting with it from Down Under. :giggles I think your formerly-neglected relic needs a thorough and extended running-in before fuel economy will change and it will always be lower when riding in the city.
. . . as you might have already noticed I am happy to learn about new things, so thanks for clarification.
I hadn't noticed that. Your happiness has eluded me until now.
:yippee:
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OK, the quest is still on unfortunately as my fuel consumption does not want to go any lower - on an A road doing a constant 60-70 MPH for a fullish tank I was getting 5.9 litres, which is still way too high. Compression tester arrived from China, compression reads good, but please have a look at the pictures. Plugs just as nice tan coloured as before, checked valve clearance again for good measure, and they are well within spec, as they have been serviced probably 500 miles ago. What else is there to try?
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Compression looks very good, but then, brick rings seem to last forever. The tan spark plugs say the mixture is spot on. I wonder what the plugs look like if you take a reading before the engine warms up. Possibly, you have an extremely rich mixture in the cold engine. Is there a lot of soot at the exhaust outlet?
Can you smell raw fuel when the engine runs? The only thing left is a very small fuel leak when the engine is running. A leak on the order of 600ml per hour could evaporate in the heat and airflow of a moving bike, but it would still be very aromatic. Check the top o-rings on the injectors and all the hose clamps on the external fuel lines.
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So is that 5.9 litres per 100km? What number do you want to get it down to?
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As it warms up here in the Beautiful State of Alabama, I am seeing my RS 4v gas mileage creep back up to 45 mpg from the 40 I was getting during the winter... ~ a 10% difference. No in town riding for me, about half of my 30 mile commute is 45 mph country roads and the other half is Interstate. That bike is all about acceleration. Gee, I LOVE that on ramp at the airport! I would most certainly lose my license for 12 weeks (or more!). BTW, PO seems to have turned off the red line fuel shut off and I have been into the 10,000 rpm range, so no, I’m not babying it...
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Wow, what speed did you get to on your test track?
Anyway, hi Gabe, I promised myself not to ask this question again, but non original injectors can affect fuel economy, did you eventually check that part number? And the number of holes?
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What are you? A cop? =-}
Normally, not much over 100 mph (2nd - 3rd gears) and blend into traffic and set the cruise at about 80.
How many weeks suspension at 30 mph over?
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Your safe on a test track, but I'm curious what the law is in USA, in Australia it varies depending which state your in. But Victoria is at least the best state in Australia for historic rego laws. Only one week left and I get my license back. :sip:
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Compression looks very good, but then, brick rings seem to last forever. The tan spark plugs say the mixture is spot on. I wonder what the plugs look like if you take a reading before the engine warms up. Possibly, you have an extremely rich mixture in the cold engine. Is there a lot of soot at the exhaust outlet?
Can you smell raw fuel when the engine runs? The only thing left is a very small fuel leak when the engine is running. A leak on the order of 600ml per hour could evaporate in the heat and airflow of a moving bike, but it would still be very aromatic. Check the top o-rings on the injectors and all the hose clamps on the external fuel lines.
Gryphon, thanks for your reply. Over-rich mixture is a possibility, even though the bike does not smoke even on start-ups, tailpipe is somewhat sooty, but not overly so, looks perfectly OK to me. The external fuel lines have been replaced together with some new stainless steel fuel hose clamps. O-rings on injectors have been replaced too, when the injectors were cleaned. The bike does not smell like raw fuel at any time, but I will give it a very thorough once over to check every connection.
I did check the air/fuel mixture adjustment on the MAF, if I have read this correctly, the screw should be out by 4 turns, mine is out 2 and 3/4, so that would indicate a rich mixture compared to factory standard... However plugs reading just perfect somehow throws that out of the equiation...
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I guess we will have to wait for warmer weather now to see if air temperature/density is causing high consumption. At 5.9 liters/100km you are within 10% of optimum fuel efficiency.
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Gabe, I promised myself not to ask this question again, but non original injectors can affect fuel economy, did you eventually check that part number? And the number of holes?
So is that 5.9 litres per 100km? What number do you want to get it down to?
Hi Dave, you are OK to ask that, as I never clearly stated, what's what on the injector front :) Injectors are factory standard ones, one hole, correct part number.
As to the consumption, doing 90KMH (I made a mistake before, as that is more, like 55MPH) in 20-22 degrees Celsius on a long stretch of +/- 200 km is just as ideal a scenario as it will get I guess. Users report 4-4.5 l/100km in those circumstances, I traveled solo and I am 75 kilograms, so I was expecting more like 5 or so litres/100km. After all Alabrew doing his stunts and is getting 45MPG on a K100, which is something like 5.2litres/100km, so I guess it is not unreasonable to expect better than 39.8MPG on a K75 in ideal driving conditions... But again, I might be nitpicking (as always) :D
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OK gents, I am back with this... Consumption is the same, so nothing changed on that front. However I have noticed something today by quite an accident, as till now I have been checking the smoothness etc of the rear wheel by manually turning it. Usually if I have the bike on centre stand, it is neutral and wheel is not turning as it is not a bloody scooter. Today I have heard a strange rattle, so put the bike on centre stand and engaged first gear, so fast idle is turning the wheel. For starters the rear brake disc wobbles just as the one I replaced it with and I am sure that is causing friction and warm rotor as a subsequence. Also there is a rattle coming from the FD area and the wheel turns unevenly. It is most noticeable, if I blip the throttle and as the engine settles back to idle, the wheel more or less stops and the rattle becomes more audible.
I have done a short video about this, obviously with a phone, so I am really sorry for the bad quality, the rattle is just about audible. https://youtu.be/5vNMN2Pn4pg
Is this normal (even though I am sure, rattle of any kind is not healthy)? Could this be something, that is causing fuel consumption issues? What is this thing and did anybody come across something like this? Is it serviceable?
Thanks!!
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Are the wheel bolts tight? :giggles
It might bearing failure at the crown gear. Review this thread (http://www.k100-forum.com/t5697-how-to-check-and-replace-the-final-drive-crown-wheel-bearing-and-seal).
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Maybe grab the wheel, check bearings for in out, up down, left right, forward back.
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Are the wheel bolts tight? :giggles
It might bearing failure at the crown gear. Review this thread (http://www.k100-forum.com/t5697-how-to-check-and-replace-the-final-drive-crown-wheel-bearing-and-seal).
Thanks Laitch, wheel bolts are tightened to the specified torque values, as I bought a new toy and done up everything to spec :) I have checked again today, and it is not loose. Every time I do something to the rear of the bike (pun not intended) I do check for wobble, but there is none, and if I turn the wheel by hand, everything seems to be nice and smooth....
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Maybe grab the wheel, check bearings for in out, up down, left right, forward back.
I did that straight after doing the video... Wheel is nice and secure and there is no play in any direction. However one thing might correlate to our previous discussion, 3.20 is stamped on the FD housing, but RPM in 5th suggests other ratio... Could it be, the innards were swapped at some point and the spacers are not the correct thickness? I guess it is very hard to answer such a question though :)
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Is the disc on tight, and centralised, or I spose it is warped.
Although adding confusion, the riders manual suggests 4,000 rpm at 100 km/h, but my k75 is like yours and at 4000 rpm does about 92 km/h.
From memory, your instrument cluster is not original, not sure if that is the reason.
So not as much of a drama as I thought, unless mine is out of whack also. Another thing wrong with mine, which i didn't notice except for a previous thread of yours, the fuel return spills onto the burrito. Good one, thanks for that, i think. :)
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Is this normal (even though I am sure, rattle of any kind is not healthy)? Could this be something, that is causing fuel consumption issues? What is this thing and did anybody come across something like this? Is it serviceable?
The rear wheel shouldn't be making noise as the wheel is rotated. If the replacement disc is wobbling similarly to its predecessor then the two discs need to be compared by a machinist side by side for thickness variation and runout. If the discs measure within spec and there is nothing defective about the surface onto which they are mounted, the caliper assembly might be faulty or a bearing in the final drive might be at fault.
Remove the brake pads and spin the wheel to determine if a noised develops. The engine sound masks the noise right now. Whether the condition is serviceable depends upon what is causing it. Determining that is likely to take disassembly.
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Another thing wrong with mine, which i didn't notice except for a previous thread of yours, the fuel return spills onto the burrito.
There is nothing wrong with that. In later models, the return line ends above the "burrito".
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Hi Laitch, right you are.
It's just that after pulling my triple out of storage, and with Gabe's previous thread in the back of my mind, I looked and noticed it's the same. I thought, that'd be right, another problem I didn't know I had. luckily, in my case, it's not noisy.
I spose it's like a mini reserve tank, dumping fuel on the opposite side of the pump. On one of my first rides of my brick, when the fuel gauge wasn't working, I couldn't get fuel in the second last town I went through. About five Kay's before the last one it was stumbling, I leaned the bike to the left, and just skimped in.
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The rear wheel shouldn't be making noise as the wheel is rotated. If the replacement disc is wobbling similarly to its predecessor then the two discs need to be compared by a machinist side by side for thickness variation and runout. If the discs measure within spec and there is nothing defective about the surface onto which they are mounted, the caliper assembly might be faulty or a bearing in the final drive might be at fault.
Remove the brake pads and spin the wheel to determine if a noised develops. The engine sound masks the noise right now. Whether the condition is serviceable depends upon what is causing it. Determining that is likely to take disassembly.
OK, I will have to investigate the wobble of the disc, I guess for initial assessment a flat sheet of glass will do... Although the noise is coming from the FD and the rear wheel shakes and turns unevenly at every rattling noise I can not replicate that with only the wheel turning it has to be in gear and at slow wheel speed it to be noticeable. If I spin up the wheel in 5th whilst on centre stand and kill the engine with the clutch pulled, the wheel stops quickly, as the rear rotor wobble against the pads causes it to stop, but that strange rattle and unevenness is not manifesting itself. Funnily enough if I turn the wheel by hand the wheel rotates a lot easier and that underlines my earlier suspicion, that the drag at the rear wheel is more present at speed, or maybe only more noticeable.... I might be able to source a K100 FD, however I would have to disassemble it, as it is a 16T version and I have read at your link, the crown gear would have had to be re-shimmed which is way beyond my capabilities I guess. My pinion seal is slightly leaking too but the removal and replacement of a new seal is rather involved with a 36mm socket, special holding tool, fabricated castle nut wrench, silly torque values etc so I guess first I would have to check the crown gear bearing for notchiness. I just really hope, this is not some gear box trouble that is manifesting itself at the wheel (however with the wobble in the rear disc there is something strange, maybe the bike was dropped at speed or something, and the whole wheel assembly got a hit)
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Maybe a FD and a drive shaft. I think you said you shaft was worn anyway.
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Maybe a FD and a drive shaft. I think you said you shaft was worn anyway.
No, driveshaft is fine-ish, the previous one was worn beyond acceptable level, so I bought a 'new' one from this forum (albeit u joint is notchy, so that might be of some concern)
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albeit u joint is notchy . . .
:grimreaper:
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What is the FD ratio of this FD you can get? How many teeth on your drive shaft now? It's probably also 16. You might be able to kill two birds with one stone here, it will probably improve your fuel economy, although going too far sometimes has the opposite effect.
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:grimreaper:
Uh, that sounds reassuring :S
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What is the FD ratio of this FD you can get? How many teeth on your drive shaft now? It's probably also 16. You might be able to kill two birds with one stone here, it will probably improve your fuel economy, although going too far sometimes has the opposite effect.
I am not sure, the guy selling it will look up the ratio over the weekend, just as the teeth count. Mine is standard K75, so 20 teeth. On my old Honda I went into great length to replace a perfectly good chainset to a closer ratio, it did nothing to my fuel consumption...
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Hi Gabe,
Just read on Soggz' mega thread you like your idle at 1200, and that at 850 the battery light glows. The riders book says set it to 950, that should improve your fuel economy.
Anyway, how's the final drive drama going.
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Hi Gabe,
Just read on Soggz' mega thread you like your idle at 1200, and that at 850 the battery light glows. The riders book says set it to 950, that should improve your fuel economy.
Beat me to it.
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Hi Gabe,
Just read on Soggz' mega thread you like your idle at 1200, and that at 850 the battery light glows. The riders book says set it to 950, that should improve your fuel economy.
Anyway, how's the final drive drama going.
Dave, Gryph, thanks, and sorry for the hiatus, I have been off the grid for a while :) I have thought the same thing, when I wrote the RPM thing on Soggz' thread, that surely that is a problem, but unless it highlights a problem (which I am sure it does), I spend probably 1/1000th of my time riding at idle, so that alone would probably not cause fuel economy issues. Also there is an another thing, that bugs me since the good weather is upon us, namely the need for a choke... If I leave the bike for more than 15-20 minutes, even in this very nice +20-25C weather, I need to engage the choke on half a setting for a bit, otherwise the bike wants to stall on me. I am sure, these things are somewhat connected (and pointing towards some mixture ailment, even if my plugs are nice and tan)...
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Hi Gabe,
Masking an idle problem by increasing the revs, is a good way to forget you have a problem. I don't remember, did you do Martin's air/fuel ratio test, warm, 1000rpm, press starter?
I was surprised when I did the maths on what was my typical ride (regarding idle/total ride time ratio) Half hour start to stop, two minute warm up, four, one minute traffic stops. I would have guessed that at one percent, but it's twenty.
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Hi Gabe,
Masking an idle problem by increasing the revs, is a good way to forget you have a problem. I don't remember, did you do Martin's air/fuel ratio test, warm, 1000rpm, press starter?
I was surprised when I did the maths on what was my typical ride (regarding idle/total ride time ratio) Half hour start to stop, two minute warm up, four, one minute traffic stops. I would have guessed that at one percent, but it's twenty.
Hi Dave,
Yeah, I know.... Sticking my head in sand won't make the problems go away :D
So just to recap, where we are now - idle is high - 1100-1200RPM, and I can not get it any lower, I have tried today, I am at the end of the adjustment. Whenever I am lower, the engine is cold and maybe that makes it stuttery
Bike needs choke, whenever colder than piping hot - e.g. driving for 15 miles in 20C I can restart it immediately without the need of choke. If left for 15-20 minutes, some choke is needed, otherwise bike stumbles or it is hardish to start
Rear disc is getting hot even without using the rear brake. In comparison the dual discs up front will not get as hot even though they have been used properly. By hot I mean hot as to be able to hold the rotor, so I'd guess 50-60C. The wobbly disc, I have showed in the videos were replaced by a straight one bought of a member of a local BMW club, no change, even though the rear wheel rotates a lot more freely. FD, DS I did not touch as of yet, so they are the same old ones.
I have not checked the plugs after a short ride as Gryph suggested, will do that next, as they are the same perfect colour after a day's ride.
The Martin / Lentini method does nothing to my idle, pressing the starter button, whilst bike is running makes no difference.
I checked again today, I have NO detectable air leaks anywhere. Spark plugs - correct range, correct gap, valve clearances correct, TB's synced, TPS set. People driving the same type of a bike in similar circumstances report some 20-30% lower consumption.
Maybe I need to
a) stop obsessing and drive the bloody thing (driving it is not a problem, not obsessing, well that's another story)
b) take the bike for a proper CO, fuel pressure, etc analysis and stop obsessing.
c) do nothing to the bike but visit a psychologist, who could help with my OCD :)
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How far are the idle air screws on the throttle bodies backed out?
I stumbled across a reference not long ago in a BMW tech bulletin that said they should be between 3/4 and 1 full turn out from lightly bottomed. I ask because, first of all, you have what sounds like too much air at idle. Also, my four valve K100RS had a high idle of about 1050 rpm, and I found the idle air screws were out between 1 3/4 and just over 2 full turns. Bringing them in to about 3/4 turn brought the idle down to around 900 rpm.
I don't know if the idle air setting or idle speed affects the fuel injection, but it wouldn't hurt to get it down to the 900-1000 rpm range.
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How far are the idle air screws on the throttle bodies backed out?
I stumbled across a reference not long ago in a BMW tech bulletin that said they should be between 3/4 and 1 full turn out from lightly bottomed. I ask because, first of all, you have what sounds like too much air at idle. Also, my four valve K100RS had a high idle of about 1050 rpm, and I found the idle air screws were out between 1 3/4 and just over 2 full turns. Bringing them in to about 3/4 turn brought the idle down to around 900 rpm.
I don't know if the idle air setting or idle speed affects the fuel injection, but it wouldn't hurt to get it down to the 900-1000 rpm range.
Gryph, I have done, what was described in the TB balancing thread, backed them out 1 1/5 turns as an initial setting, but that resulted in too high idle even in the lowest setting of the idle speed screw, something like 1500RPM. So I adjusted the first TB lower, which dropped the idle speed and set the other two accordingly, so it is all in balance. I might just set the first screw even lower, however I did not want to do that before, as I would have to more or less close the bypass. I think, the butterflies are out of sync, as the first one (closest to the front of the bike) needs 3/4 to 1 turn of a different setting, as the other two, but I am not touching the blue screws :) Also my TPS is bottoming out, so I will have to get it balanced, whilst juggling multiple things at the same time but I will try my best :))
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OK, so I keep coming back on this. Final drive I have left alone for now, as the guy selling it locally thinks it is worth approximately 3-4 times as much, what they are sold on the bay (looking at the dream-on buy it now prices does not help :) ) However I had to dig in my tank yet again, as the cicadas dampening solution became dislodged from the return pipe. During this I have removed the fuel filter, even though I have replaced it not 1000 miles ago. It is hard to blow through it, even if I let it dry for +/- 1 hour, but bike runs the same with or without. There is a discussion over at K100 how a partially blocked filter can affect the cold start / idle routine, but I would have thought a fuel pressure problem manifests itself more on the high revs, also there is PLENTY of fuel streaming back. Unfortunately I have thrown away the old filter, so I can not check, what resistance that has after a few months of drying. What is your experience on the blow through test? Thanks!
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I would think so too.
Installing a new one would show if there is a difference, but unlikely, I think.
Idle speed adjustment screw o rings? Suggestions not tried yet?
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I would think so too.
Installing a new one would show if there is a difference, but unlikely, I think.
Idle speed adjustment screw o rings? Suggestions not tried yet?
The o-rings are fine Dave, as are the other rubber bits, I have liberally sprayed the whole area multiple times with starting fluid to check for leaks with no change in idle speed. I have even taken the MAF off again, sprayed the temp sensor with contact spray, taken the top off and sprayed the carbon track with contact spray - no change. Everything works as it should but something is amiss...
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How far from bottom are the idle air screws?
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How many additional kilometers or miles have been logged on this moto since all the hand-wringing began back in February?
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How far from bottom are the idle air screws?
Number two and three are ~1.5 turns out, number one (closest to the front) some 3/4 turns. It is exactly as it was before, as weather has been really awful recently and I can not ride the bike to warm it up for a re-sync at a lower setting. Since I have been into the MAF (and removed, later replaced the fuel filter) my engine feels to be out of tune. Since both things would affect the overall mixture I just hope, I did not introduce some dirt into one of the injectors, when I ran the engine without the fuel filter for a very brief period of some seconds (basically checking, if cold engine idle improves without the filter).
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How many additional kilometers or miles have been logged on this moto since all the hand-wringing began back in February?
According to fuelly and the recent fuel up, that has not been logged as of yet it has been 1173 kilometres. The total covered since owning the bike (from August onwards) has been 4146 kilometres, which surprises me a lot.
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Might be a candidate for an Italian tune up.
Regards Martin.