MOTOBRICK.COM
TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: bizzaro on June 23, 2018, 07:15:47 PM
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https://www.amazon.com/Spal-30100402-Puller-6-5In-15Amp/dp/B01LXF8FWE/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1529794718&sr=1-3&keywords=spal+cooling+fan+6.5 (https://www.amazon.com/Spal-30100402-Puller-6-5In-15Amp/dp/B01LXF8FWE/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1529794718&sr=1-3&keywords=spal+cooling+fan+6.5)
Yep, my fan is fried! What a piece of crap. It is the classic melted brush housing. How can BMW overbuild the motors so well and use shit for auxiliary parts. WTF. Maybe this should be posted in D.P. But I needs to know. Trip coming up in three weeks so I gots to "get er done". Those that have made the transition, please confirm.......or better solutions?
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Looks like what I used.
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Thanks Gryph. Just wanted some confirmation before I put down the cash. I was checking my temp sensor at the stand pipe. When I got the radiator out, I thought I would try and clean/oil the fan . Glad I did. When I got the motor cover off the fan, the positive brush fell out. All brush holders/housings were melted into shit. The last time I tested the fan it was fine!
Never done any plastic welding. Would a hot glue gun work? I mean isn't that just plastic? Or do you just use a soldering gun?
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075FSCHZC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is what I got for my '95. Pretty much a direct replacement, solder the wires, works just fine, and it's only $45.
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Scott,
Thanks for the link. I am a bit leary as it looks like the the Bosch motor that was in the bike in the first place. I assume this is an upgraded plastic that holds the brushes in place. I know the fans aren't designed for constant use, but mine was fried. That is a substantial savings, and no mounting issues.
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I figured if the original one lasted near 20 years, that's not a bad run for an electric motor in the environment that it is located in.
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I haven't had to replace mine yet but bought a spare from https://www.tills.de/product-112-113-158.html (https://www.tills.de/product-112-113-158.html).
Although it looks like they are currently out-of-stock, for me the shipping was fast and the quality is superb.
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stokester, wow, now that's a fan. But it is more than I want to spend. Well not as much as BMW/Bosch fan that was in there. $350, :yow thanks for the link. Nice to have options.
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I blew mine about 19 years ago, total brush meltdown. I was horrified by the new price, and second hand price wasn't much better. I didn't like the design of the motor, so I decided to go none OEM. I didn't know about Spal fans so I went to one of the car supply places after seeing an ad for 50% off in a cattledog and bought a Davies Craig fully sealed fan, the smallest that they had. From memory I think it was around $35.00 - $40.00. I ended up cobbling the two housings together and used the OEM blades. It's never missed a beat.
Regards Martin.
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Hey Martin,
Yea, I have considered using "others" fans. I am a kiss (keep it simple stupid) kinda guy though. The less labor,money, and time invested the better.
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Bizz I cobbled the two together by cutting off the OEM plastic motor support arms. And after pulling the blades off the DC (Davies Craig) fan, I placed the DC housing over the OEM housing. I found that one off the many concentric rings that made up the DC hosing lined up with the OEM's singular ring. I cut off the outer surplus DC mounts and rings. I then made up four "C" shaped clips (1/2" stainless Bandit strap) that went over the outer DC ring and onto the OEM ring. It then pop riveted them together from the inside out so as not to interfere with the blades. As a precaution I also put flat washers over the ends of the rivets. I had to space the DC fan motor out 10-12mm from the DC mount to clear the radiator. This was done using longer screws and a bit of PVC plumbing pipe that lined up with the DC motor. The advantage the DC one has is that it is fully sealed. I do believe that if you look around there are fully sealed brushless motors around.
Good luck regards Martin.
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It has occurred to me that I my not need a fan at all? :dunno2: I mean I almost always shut off the bike if I am stopped in traffic. And with the fan out of there, the airflow must be vastly improved. We are due some heat this week, so I will be monitoring my engine temps with scrutiny! Now that I have a working temp guage thanks to fellow bricker, JJJ. :2thumbup:
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It has occurred to me that I my not need a fan at all? :dunno2: I mean I almost always shut off the bike if I am stopped in traffic.
What happens when traffic is moving at four miles an hour—not that there's any traffic where you live. Who knows though? Someday you might find yourself in Montreal, or Morrisville. :giggles Get a fan, you cheapskate. Mercedes parts not good enough for you?
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Here is a thread on easily retrofitting the Spal fan to the brick. If you have an 80 grit sanding disc and a pop riveter it takes about an hour after the old fan is removed from the radiator.
Here is the link to the procedure I used when I replaced my fan that had totally melted it's brush holders. Go to reply #18 December 20, 2014 There is a good description and nice pictures.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,4313.0.html
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thanks Gryph. will order my fan today
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Scott, are you sure you got a pull fan? The Bosch number on my dead fan ends 305. I think in one of my search's, I found both motors offered, one was a push, and the other a pull fan, and the last three numerals where off by one number and the 305 was a pull fan. And the advertisment says blower?
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What happens when traffic is moving at four miles an hour—not that there's any traffic where you live. Who knows though? Someday you might find yourself in Montreal, or Morrisville. :giggles Get a fan, you cheapskate. Mercedes parts not good enough for you?
I went without a fan for a couple years, though I did get a little nervous at times. Gotta admit it was nice not having the heater kick on when I least wanted it :hehehe
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Scott, are you sure you got a pull fan? The Bosch number on my dead fan ends 305. I think in one of my search's, I found both motors offered, one was a push, and the other a pull fan, and the last three numerals where off by one number and the 305 was a pull fan. And the advertisment says blower?
That was the one that I ordered and installed, and it pulls...... I did check the rotation before I did any soldering for installation.
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Thanks for the confirmation. I may go that route as it is the simplest. RnR, :2thumbup:
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Scott, are you sure you got a pull fan? The Bosch number on my dead fan ends 305. I think in one of my search's, I found both motors offered, one was a push, and the other a pull fan, and the last three numerals where off by one number and the 305 was a pull fan. And the advertisment says blower?
It's a DC motor. Reverse the leads to reverse the direction.
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Yes Robert, I had thought of that, just change the wires around if it is pushing, but the way the brushes are mounted for the rotation of the armature would not be correct and may be problems down the road. Scott did confirm it is a pull fan anyway.
I really like the sexy one that stokester linked, but it is about $130 U S before shipping. Almost double the
SPAL fan.
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Yes Robert, I had thought of that, just change the wires around if it is pushing, but the way the brushes are mounted for the rotation of the armature would not be correct andd may be problems down the road. Scott did confirms it is a pull fan anyway.
I really like the sexy one that stokester linked, but it is about $130 U S before shipping. Almost double the
SPAL fan.
The Tills uses the SPAL but also has a very well made mounting bracket and uses the proper connector. I bought it last year at a total cost of about $130. Yes it is more expensive than just replacing the fan but it appears to be a plug and play that will install without modification and last the remainder of my K75's life. For me it's worth the extra money and I help a business that is supporting my favorite mount. No stones thrown at others who do it differently.
I have not installed it yet but having just passed the 75K mile mark on my '93K75S and having read many stories of the fans failing before reaching 100K it will be replaced this winter if not before.
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Oops. To conclude this thread, I went with the Spal Fan conversion. Works GREAT, :2thumbup: Also added a manual over-ride switch for the fan? Highly recommended . I used the manual switch a lot on a trip in 80 to 95 degree weather this past weekend in stop n go and construction traffic.
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+1 Adding an override switch allows you to run the fan in traffic before it overheats. It also gives the added benefit of being able to test that the fan is working.
Regards Martin.
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+1 Adding an override switch allows you to run the fan in traffic before it overheats.
Not to split hairs here, Martin, but the system is designed to activate the fan before the engine overheats. It seems to work on my moto. That's why in a fully-functioning system, the fan activates before the temperature warning light is lit. An override switch keeps the fan from cycling in hot weather or traffic operation—which can be bothersome to some riders—besides allowing the rider full control over its operation.
I like the fan's cycling; it has old world charm. Of course, I'm not riding in the desert, or heavy traffic very often.
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Not to split hairs here, Martin, but the system is designed to activate the fan before the engine overheats. It seems to work on my moto. That's why in a fully-functioning system, the fan activates before the temperature warning light is lit. An override switch keeps the fan from cycling in hot weather or traffic operation—which can be bothersome to some riders—besides allowing the rider full control over its operation.
I like the fan's cycling; it has old world charm. Of course, I'm not riding in the desert, or heavy traffic very often.
The override switch doesn't interfere with normal fan operation.
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The override switch doesn't interfere with normal fan operation.
Didn't say it did.
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My coolant starts pissing before the fan comes on. The override keeps that from happening..........as long as I am paying attention to my temp guage. Thank you jjj who gifted me the guage!
And Gryph, it doesn't seem to. One time when I wasn't paying attention to my guage, the fan came on automatically. I tapped into my blue/yellow wire at the relay to put in the over-ride.
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I don't override the fan in winter. I only do it in summer in traffic as a precautionary measure. I know that the fan will cut in before the temperature light. But a stinking hot day in traffic I'd rather preempt the fan. As I stated in an earlier post I can experience fuel vaporization problem under those conditions, and maybe turning the fan on early will help. I know it won't hurt.
Regards Martin.
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I use my override switch the moment I drop below an average of 30 mph. If I don't I know the temp will start to climb and I just don not like to see the needle starting to get right up there. Apart from possibly shortening the life of the fan by running it a lot I see no harm in keeping the engine temp around the mid way point rather than the 3/4+ mark.
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Didn't say it did.
"An override switch keeps the fan from cycling in hot weather or traffic operation"
Perhaps a poor choice of words.
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Perhaps a poor choice of words.
Those are a good choice, Gryph, there just aren't enough of them. —when it's turned on— might have been useful in there somewhere. You can stick that wherever it's convenient. :giggles
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I see everyone is using 6.5 spal. I can't find 6.5 version in EU. There is one in kbikepartsholand.com, but it's twice the price for included bracket. My father works with metal and he can laser cut same bracket for free. I only find this version of spal https://www.holley.com/products/discontinued_product/parts/30100358 which is 7.5. I've measured radiator and it still fits and some space is left for mounting. Can bigger fan work, without causing any additional problems?
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tills.de (https://www.motobrick.com/tills.de) has a nice fan kit
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tills.de (https://www.motobrick.com/tills.de) has a nice fan kit
I don't see point of paying +-60eur fot bracket when I can get it for free. I need just fan not kit.
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You don't need a fancy bracket to install a SPAL fan. I just use a couple of small pieces of 1/8" thick aluminum bar stock.
(https://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/fans/spalfa2.jpg)
Will a 7.5" SPAL fan work? I think so. In the picture below I copied the fan above, increased its size by 15% (the difference between 6.5 and 7.5) and then pasted that to the radiator picture above to give an idea of what a 7.5 would look like.
(https://i.imgur.com/j9KrfXh.jpeg)
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Can bigger fan work, without causing any additional problems?
It is likely that the smallest diameter fan that would do the job satisfactorily was chosen by BMW to keep production costs down; a larger fan should be okay. The one you've chosen is for 12V systems and doesn't seem to draw excessive amps in operation so it should work well if you can anchor it securely. It could be louder when running.
Please post an explanation of how you mount it, some photos of the project, and a review of its performance.
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Will a 7.5" SPAL fan work? I think so.
(https://i.imgur.com/j9KrfXh.jpeg)
Has anyone actually attempted this? When you reinstalled the radiator with the larger 7.5" SPAL fan replacement, did you run into any collision issues with the frame/hoses/other components? My fan crapped out over the weekend (melted brush arms) and I'm currently thinking of going the larger fan route since Texas summers can get pretty intense. Would like to have a bit more piece of mind knowing I have a larger fan in an environment that these weren't necessarily designed for.
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The 6.5 puller moves air at ≈330 cfm; the 7.5 rate is ≈440 cfm. What many riders have done is install a fan switch (https://www.k100-forum.com/t10880-manual-switch-for-cooling-fan-for-dummies) to run the fan when they think it's needed. It should not be run all the time. With or without the override switch, the 6.5 has gotten high marks around here and using it could lessen anxiety about fitment. Some have installed fuel coolers (https://www.k100-forum.com/t9594-k75rt-fuel-cooler) because hot fuel within the tank radiates excess heat onto the legs; likewise, insulating the fuel rail (https://www.k100-forum.com/t9594-k75rt-fuel-cooler) and the fuel return line also have been done. Insulation beneath the tank has also been improved, including deploying the legendary johnny blanket.
The guide below has a few other suggestions. Some involve both BMW and aftermarket parts that are no longer found as new stock.
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Nice resource, thanks for posting it here. It looks like the 6.5" fan BARELY fits without interacting with the frame or other components (see the required adjustment of the hose clamp at the tube above the temp switch housing). So I don't think a 7.5" fan would work in this instance. I do very much appreciate the attention to detail in creating a mounting bracket out of 1/8" sheet aluminum for the new fan attachment.
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Nice resource, thanks for posting it here. It looks like the 6.5" fan BARELY fits without interacting with the frame or other components (see the required adjustment of the hose clamp at the tube above the temp switch housing). So I don't think a 7.5" fan would work in this instance. I do very much appreciate the attention to detail in creating a mounting bracket out of 1/8" sheet aluminum for the new fan attachment.
you got me worried about fan not fitting.. I already got fan and spend half day designing bracket. phew what a relief when i checked. that 7.5" spal is the same size as the OEM fan. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Instead of spending time making a new mounting bracket, just reuse the old mount.
It only takes the better part of 15 minutes to cut the ears off the Spal fan, remove the old fan from the mount and pop river the Spal into the old mount. That includes ovalizing the top hole in the old mount to line up with the threaded mounting hole on the radiator. There is a discussion on making the modification here:
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,4313.0.html
The good stuff is in post #18 by Roadbandit.
This is the neatest retrofit you can do. I had one on a bike that was totally destroyed in a collision and the modified Spal mount and fan were still usable and are still working in another bike 6 years later.
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Sooooo Frank’s photoshop skills were pretty spot on. I ordered the 7.5” Spal fan and it covers a slightly larger area than the OEM assembly. It BARELY fits in the frame due to some of the tabs interacting with one of the radiator hoses so I’m going to trim that off, slap some foam tape in there, and pray it doesn’t rub a hole into the hose.
Does anyone know the output of the OEM fan assembly? McKenzie's claims the 7.5” puller fan chooches at 366 cfm.
https://www.mckenzies.com/products/spal-7-5-puller-fan (https://www.mckenzies.com/products/spal-7-5-puller-fan)
Here are some pics for anyone looking at upgrading to a larger fan for warmer climates.