Post by: Enfield on April 28, 2018, 04:06:19 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/1a37f1af3d68153c86af5bfee84b6cb4.jpg)
And connected it to a Bep. 3.0 ....
Almost everything works - even gears and speedometer!
But for some reason the tacho doesnt work. Would it be possible just to bypass the Bep and connect directly to ignition ... somehow🤨?
Or if someone have the same setup - working... then maybe the tachometer is faulty
Regards
Chr
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Post by: Enfield on April 28, 2018, 04:22:36 PM
Bike in question is a K100 1984
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Post by: Laitch on April 28, 2018, 04:49:04 PM
And connected it to a Bep. 3.0 ....The reason it doesn't work—according to the extract below from Euro MotoElectrics—is that the BEP 3.0 designer didn't design something to get it to work. There are alternatives. He explains some of them and you'll find information on this site about them.
Almost everything works - even gears and speedometer!
But for some reason the tacho doesnt work.
Two Limitations of Functionality exist:
- If your fuel tank is not equipped with a float then the level sensor of your speedo will not function either. In this case, only a fuel gauge (being triggered at fuel level of 4L, as in the original) can be used instead.
- The BEP3.0 does not provide an engine speed signal. Motogadget is selling an ignition signal pick-up for the ignition cable at a price of €30 (which I use myself - works just perfectly). Other manufacturers pick off the high-voltage-signal capacitively or make use of the 12-volt-control signal of the ignition coil (not high-voltage side).I have carried out tests for extended periods and unfortunately have found no way to filter the engine speed signal in such a way, that it is compatible with any speedo type. That’s why I decided not to use a speed output.
Post by: Enfield on April 28, 2018, 05:02:00 PM
The reason it doesn't work—according to the extract below from Euro MotoElectrics—is that the BEP 3.0 designer didn't design something to get it to work. There are alternatives. He explains some of them and you'll find information on this site about them.[emoji1303]
Two Limitations of Functionality exist:
- If your fuel tank is not equipped with a float then the level sensor of your speedo will not function either. In this case, only a fuel gauge (being triggered at fuel level of 4L, as in the original) can be used instead.
- The BEP3.0 does not provide an engine speed signal. Motogadget is selling an ignition signal pick-up for the ignition cable at a price of €30 (which I use myself - works just perfectly). Other manufacturers pick off the high-voltage-signal capacitively or make use of the 12-volt-control signal of the ignition coil (not high-voltage side).I have carried out tests for extended periods and unfortunately have found no way to filter the engine speed signal in such a way, that it is compatible with any speedo type. That’s why I decided not to use a speed output.
That explains... Will get the ignition signal pickup. Thanks for helping me one more time.
Chr
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Post by: rbm on April 28, 2018, 06:58:36 PM
You might be able to get a RPM reading by connecting the coil #1 primary (Black / Blue Pin 16) to the following circuit:
(https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/rc/rc13.gif)
The capacitor can be around 0.1uF to 0.33uF 250V and the resistor about 2,200 Ohms. The coil primary input goes to the capacitor on the left, the tachometer input connects to where the resistor and capacitor join up on the right and the other end of the resistor is connected to ground. This will level shift the input negative enough to maybe get a reading on the tachometer.
Post by: Enfield on April 29, 2018, 03:00:00 AM
Before you go out and buy the Motogadget device, read this: http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,10224.0.html
You might be able to get a RPM reading by connecting the coil #1 primary (Black / Blue Pin 16) to the following circuit:
(https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/rc/rc13.gif)
The capacitor can be around 0.1uF to 0.33uF 250V and the resistor about 2,200 Ohms. The coil primary input goes to the capacitor on the left, the tachometer input connects to where the resistor and capacitor join up on the right and the other end of the resistor is connected to ground. This will level shift the input negative enough to maybe get a reading on the tachometer.
Thanks Rbm
Read everything - do I understand correct that you are saying that the cheap EBay speedo might not work with the Motogadget device? And what you are suggesting is a simplified solution go get it to work, instead of the solution you link to?
I Can build houses, do some work on a Valjoux 7753, and most of the stuff on my K....but untill now I have a blockage about Electronics [emoji56] But the “easy” solution might be my first try.
Regards
Chr
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Post by: Laitch on April 29, 2018, 04:44:01 AM
I Can build houses, do some work on a Valjoux 7753 . . .We don't care about that, Enfield, even if we believed you. We're all wearing Casios and Timexes and live happily in prefabricated yurts. :giggles
What's compelling about rbm's response to your post is that he appears to have worked out a viable solution for exactly the same—and what he refers to as annoying—Chinese gauge that won't fully function for you. Three questions occur to me.
Does he have one to sell you?
If he has one to sell, why wouldn't you buy it?
Does it need a cooler name like The rBMWavemaster2.2.1?
Post by: Enfield on April 29, 2018, 04:55:31 AM
We don't care about that, Enfield, even if we believed you. We're all wearing Casios and Timexes and live happily in prefabricated yurts. :giggles
What's compelling about rbm's response to your post is that he appears to have worked out a viable solution for exactly the same—and what he refers to as annoying—Chinese gauge that won't fully function for you. Three questions occur to me.
Does he have one to sell you?
If he has one to sell, why wouldn't you buy it?
Does it need a cooler name like The rBMWavemaster2.2.1?
Hey - it passed me entirely - I would buy it right away. Sorry but I sometimes miss some underlying things as English it not my first language....
I went for the Bep as it looked Like plug and play, and was available next door ( Germany)
Regards
Chr
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Post by: Laitch on April 29, 2018, 05:01:42 AM
.The BEP is a good product by all accounts; it just doesn't have that tachometer function to fit all the different types of gauges available. If it did, the cost probably would not be as attractive and sales wouldn't sustain production. rbm's board is a solution for the tachometer signal function.
I went for the Bep as it looked Like plug and play, and was available next door ( Germany)
Post by: rbm on April 29, 2018, 05:09:24 AM
On the BEP 3.0's WEGO connector, it's PIN 24 and designated RPM. If you hook up the circuit with the capacitor and resistor which I posted, you should be able to get the tachometer in your gauge to work. Refer to my article about stabilizing the tacho signal, the link to which I posted above, to understand the range of values of components you can choose for this circuit. This is an easy circuit to build. Use a perfboard upon which to mount the components and I'd suggest using a terminal block like the one used by Maru. You can order electronic parts online from RS Components if there is nothing local to you.
Post by: Enfield on April 29, 2018, 05:17:12 AM
So I re-read the BEP 3.0 user guide (which I had downloaded a while back) and it indicates that there is an output for engine rotational speed. On page 7 in the manual I have it states: "- RPM and SPD is output as a square wave signal, which means that the rotary pulses from the crankshaft or the rear wheel respectively, are changed in a changing frequency of low and high Pulses."
On the BEP 3.0's WEGO connector, it's PIN 24 and designated RPM. If you hook up the circuit with the capacitor and resistor which I posted, you should be able to get the tachometer in your gauge to work. Refer to my article about stabilizing the tacho signal, the link to which I posted above, to understand the range of values of components you can choose for this circuit. This is an easy circuit to build. Use a perfboard upon which to mount the components and I'd suggest using a terminal block like the one used by Maru. You can order electronic parts online from RS Components if there is nothing local to you.
Thank you so much [emoji1303]
Regards
Chr
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Post by: Enfield on April 29, 2018, 05:20:04 AM
Here's some supplemental education (http://www.ducksters.com/science/physics/resistors_capacitors_and_inductors.php), Enfield. I'm enrolling myself in the course right now. :gigglesDont know if its a thank you or.....[emoji848]
But hey.... can’t all be Timex as you knew it was a watch I was refering to[emoji6]
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Post by: rbm on April 29, 2018, 05:30:33 AM
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2vkxbpk.jpg)
Post by: Laitch on April 29, 2018, 05:32:54 AM
. . . as you knew it was a watch I was refering to(https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)Google knew it was a watch, and I know Google. :yes
Good luck with your circuitry!
Post by: Enfield on April 29, 2018, 05:33:22 AM
Rather than point you to other areas on the Internet for information, I'll post it here. You have to add a small film or ceramic capacitor of 0.1uF 25V in series with the RPM (pin 24) output, followed by a 2,200 Ohm 1/4W 5% resistor in parallel with the output. These two components together will generate the needed negative voltage and will result in a working tachometer. The values of these two components is not critical. The capacitor can be between 0.033uF and 0.22uF and the resistor can be between 1,000 Ohms and 3,300 Ohms, but the values I recommend optimal. I built this one pictured below for someone with this same problem of non-responsive tacho.Thank you [emoji1303]
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2vkxbpk.jpg)
Have a store almost next door where I Can show Them what I need! If you were in the EU I would much rather order it from you - if you do take orders!
Regards
Chr
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Post by: Enfield on April 30, 2018, 01:34:44 PM
You are a genius - it works perfectly!! Thank you.
As it is my very first try in soldering I guess I Can get away with “ whatever works”[emoji56]
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180430/0fb704c4f6883c103be1d7f20b79229d.jpg)
Regards
Chr
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Post by: lilau3 on May 01, 2018, 04:20:34 AM
I haven’t tested the speedo yet but believe it should work with the BEP3 as long as it’s set to receive the signal in 5V mode.
https://m.louis.eu/artikel/t-t-multifunction-instrument/10034806
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/a23b7cd17fc6921557d497ce74ce92b5.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180501/bd4ea9cd9bb7da0566c808cdca047d0e.jpg)
Post by: Enfield on May 01, 2018, 10:44:04 AM
Regards
Chr
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Post by: AnarchyMotorcycles on February 27, 2019, 06:34:35 PM
I was hoping you may be able to show me a setup pic of your BEP 3.0 and the eBay speedometer. As far as I can tell I have wired everything up perfectly and I am not even getting the tach to light up never mind look into if any of the other functions are working. Any help/advice would be hugely appreciated.
All the best, JD
Post by: epifibatyd on April 11, 2019, 05:58:37 PM
I have a problem with the same set as OP: the ‘cheap Chinese speedo’ and bep3.0. Most of the things seem to be working including tachometer if I understand the English names properly - the RPMs are working and values seem trustworthy. However the electronicall display of the speed (speedometer?) is workin but giving false values - that are roughly 2times too high.
I have the version of Chinese gauge which came with the magnet sensor. I used on of 3 cables going to the magnet sensor to connect it to the SPD ouput in the BEP.
Anybody aware of this problem and have and idea for a workaround?
Regards,
Peter
Post by: rbm on April 11, 2019, 09:24:12 PM
Post by: MantasBMWC4R on April 30, 2019, 05:14:17 AM
Hi. I mounted this
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/1a37f1af3d68153c86af5bfee84b6cb4.jpg)
And connected it to a Bep. 3.0 ....
Almost everything works - even gears and speedometer!
But for some reason the tacho doesnt work. Would it be possible just to bypass the Bep and connect directly to ignition ... somehow🤨?
Or if someone have the same setup - working... then maybe the tachometer is faulty
Regards
Chr
Have some questions, i had instaled same speedometer, brought BEP3.0, have such a problems, maybe you will help me:
Gears: everything is ok with N gear, but instead 1 gear i have 2 gear, and everything goes high. Have no first gear.
Speed: Do you connected wire to speedometer straight from BEP SPD port? Is it works well.
RPM: made sceme capasitor and resistor (capasitor 0.33uF 250V and the resistor 2,200 Ohms), where i need to connect wire from CDI (is it 16 port, Black / Blue Pin from old speedometer connections (connected to BEP)? or from anywhere?
Thank you.
Post by: JSCHU on June 01, 2019, 01:08:49 AM
Another question I have is that I keep reading that the BEP 3.0 can output either 5V or 12V. Is there a switch to flip somewhere for this? Could a potential problem be that I’m not pushing enough juice to the speedometer?
Post by: JSCHU on June 01, 2019, 01:17:41 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g25vpdkat2az40j/speedometerInstructions.pdf?dl=0
Post by: Rastrai on June 10, 2019, 01:00:55 AM
Post by: BlacklightBeauty on June 17, 2019, 08:58:49 PM
Post by: Ctrogstad on January 01, 2021, 10:14:44 AM
After a few hours of searching, I found this document. Figured I’d share it just in case anyone else is dealing with the same issue.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g25vpdkat2az40j/speedometerInstructions.pdf?dl=0
Thanks for sharing the link. Have you determined the proper frequency setting for this unit?
Tks!
Post by: t.penev89 on March 15, 2022, 09:20:56 AM
First I want to say that I've done this with my last k bike project and I had no problems, just connected the speed and the rpm cable directly from the bep 3.0 to the speedometer and it started without any problems, however now on my second k bike project I have no working rpm and speedometer, everything else works gears indicators everything.
There are exactly the same speedometers but the interface and setting menus are different, also I bought them from different places.
So can someone give a correct solution, because now Ive tried with condensator and resistor and still not working... 177381
Post by: rbm on March 15, 2022, 06:15:19 PM
SPEEDO: You'll probably need to borrow an oscilloscope to debug what is going on with the speedo circuit. Can you do that? Right now, you don't have enough information to point to any failing component. I wrote a user manual for this gauge. Download it from my Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgZF3Qgx_Aa1mvcWAAjfVeTaBCb5WNkC/view?usp=sharing
Post by: t.penev89 on March 15, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
My point was that, on my last K bike, I've used the same combination bep3 and this speedometer( on outside is the same) only the cables and the interface settings were different and it was easy job plug and ride 😁😁😁
Ill use your user manual wich Im very thankful for and ill see where is my mistake, Thank you again :) cheers
Post by: t.penev89 on March 16, 2022, 02:29:44 AM
RPM: You have to have the R-C integrator circuit attached to the RPM output of the BEP 3.0 to get it to work with this gauge. This gauge expects the RPM signal to go negative relative to ground and the output of the BEP doesn't do that without help.
SPEEDO: You'll probably need to borrow an oscilloscope to debug what is going on with the speedo circuit. Can you do that? Right now, you don't have enough information to point to any failing component. I wrote a user manual for this gauge. Download it from my Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgZF3Qgx_Aa1mvcWAAjfVeTaBCb5WNkC/view?usp=sharing
From the manual that you've made, finally I understood that the signal for RPM have to be negative...
The capacitor and resistor had made the signal lower but not oposite from positive to negative... can I take this negative signal from somewhere else from the coils maybe?
Ill try to make a RC connection and see what happens, hope it will work
Too much problems with this speedometer... 😒
There are different settings Y2 Y3 Y4 Y6 Y8, do you have any idea which is the correct one, my logic and from the Chinese manual I understood that all are for 4 stroke engines only y1 y2 ... means the cylinders...
Post by: rbm on March 16, 2022, 08:54:38 AM
Post by: t.penev89 on March 16, 2022, 01:45:26 PM
Also the guy from the store that I bought it gived me another schemes but still not matching the colors and the position on the back of the gauge.
20220314_170703.jpg (39.21 kB . 768x576 - viewed 647 times) 20220314_170712.jpg (40.29 kB . 768x576 - viewed 650 times) -878259255-1793771366.jpg (49.25 kB . 768x549 - viewed 608 times) 20220316_194729.jpg (66.01 kB . 645x576 - viewed 565 times) 20220316_194704.jpg (59.99 kB . 665x576 - viewed 626 times) [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
Post by: t.penev89 on March 17, 2022, 03:43:10 AM
20220317_093027.jpg (89.37 kB . 768x576 - viewed 658 times) 20220317_093018.jpg (68.42 kB . 768x576 - viewed 641 times)And this is the one, as you can see different interface and different adjustments are made and it worked plug and play, first the rpms were not correct but after adjustments on the speedo it started normally. Also the speed was not correct, but when ive chose 7 magnets it was correct.Maybe the electronic is different inside but it was easy job with the bep3
Post by: t.penev89 on March 17, 2022, 04:18:44 AM
Post by: rbm on March 17, 2022, 08:28:03 AM
(http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/tach_braid.jpg)
Post by: t.penev89 on March 18, 2022, 02:18:18 AM
20220318_081555.jpg (85.2 kB . 768x576 - viewed 596 times)
Post by: rbm on March 18, 2022, 08:26:41 AM
Post by: t.penev89 on March 18, 2022, 10:08:50 AM
It's ffrom China, aliexpress, the replacement is going to be nightmare...
I'm ordering another one, hopefully it will work,
I'm very thankful for your support and advices, hopefully more people will see and solve their "mysteries"
Post by: rbm on March 18, 2022, 11:46:28 AM
Post by: t.penev89 on March 18, 2022, 03:54:11 PM
This is upside 1-10
[ Invalid Attachment ]
This is lowside 11-20
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Post by: rbm on March 19, 2022, 08:05:43 AM
Post by: t.penev89 on March 19, 2022, 04:18:15 PM
In Reply #32, you posted two colour coding charts. I chose the first chart, which appears to be wrong. In the second chart, the RPM signal input is Black/Purple. Is that the one you have connected the Blue wire to?
Yes, this is the correct chart, but stil there are differences with some of the colors, but I've tested all of them so I'm pretty shure that the black/ yellow cable is the rpm signal.
The seller sent me these other charts but totally different colors and cables positions...
Im waiting for other speedometer, after Iinstal the other one, I'll see what is the situation and Ill see if the speedo is defective or the problem is in me, I'm too dumb to wire 10 cables 🤪🤪🤪
Cheers for now, I'm stopping the spam of this thread, I'll only give my feedback after new speedometer comes and I'm hoping to be with different interface, familiar to me I hope 😀