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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: frankenduck on September 22, 2011, 08:40:18 PM

Title: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on September 22, 2011, 08:40:18 PM: I have tried another service but I've now sent something like five or six sets of fuel injectors to Mr. Injector (http://www.mrinjector.us/) and am very pleased with his service. $16/fuel injector plus $5 for shipping with a quick (usually one day) turnaround via USPS Priority Mail.

Click here: Removing/Installing K75/K1002V Fuel Injectors (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,3781.0.html)

Earlier this year I sent him a set of fuel injectors from a K1100RS that had been sitting since the dawn of time. They were pretty f'd up and had rust spots all over them. When I got them back they had not only been cleaned with new O-rings and pintel caps but he'd even repainted them so they looked close to new. I installed them in my K1 and they work great. (Johnny's ridden it and he can vouch for the fact that it's a well-running K.)

I'm currently working on getting my recently purchased 93 K1100RS running well. When running it I noticed the the fuel rail was leaking at the top of the #3 injector - most likely from a dried out O-ring. I decided to leave those in there for a few days and sent him the fuel injectors from Johnny's now deceased and dismantled Bug-Eyed Motobrick. (TM)

I got them back today. They're all clean and shiny again. Below is the "report card" that came back with them. Thought I'd post it here if anybody's curious. (I added the red circles.)
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: BobZ(IL) on September 22, 2011, 10:08:29 PM: Bug-Eye Motobrick deceased? I missed the wake. What happened, hit by a train?
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on September 22, 2011, 10:17:05 PM: Quote from: BobZ(IL) on September 22, 2011, 10:08:29 PM
Bug-Eye Motobrick deceased? I missed the wake. What happened, hit by a train?

Short version:

Earlier this year one of the drive shaft U-joints went out when we were riding in SoCal. Then early in the summer Johnny hit a pothole or something. Knocked the rear wheel out of true. He tried to limp it home but the wobble fried the bearings in the final drive and it blew out it's gear oil. He found some used replacements for the wheel and FD and got it up and running again. Then on our Iderhoe Motobrick Mayhem ride the clutch plate 'sploded. After that the dumbass tow truck driver didn't tie it down well enough and it fell on the right side while being towed. The bug had led a long and useful life but was wearing out.

Since Johnny had a very nice K1100RS (the "burd") in Wisconsin that he didn't get to ride much he decided to give me the bug's carcass and ride the other one west.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: johnny on September 22, 2011, 10:29:23 PM: dont forget the deal with brickzilla (http://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8368&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)... he couldnt get used to its supreme power and smooth handling so i bought it back at a profit n rode it till it wouldnt move... 3 times... he he he...

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

j o
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: BobZ(IL) on September 25, 2011, 12:20:10 AM: Well the motobrick summer activity was damn near like getting hit by a train. RIP.
Title: Mr. Injector
Post by: astroguy on October 22, 2011, 05:11:46 PM: Well I just used the 'Mr. Injector' cleaning system for my 1986 k75 and I highly recommend them. They were fast and inexpensive and my bike purrs now, no more popping at 3800 rpm and better 'roll on' in 5th!
http://www.mrinjector.us/ (http://www.mrinjector.us/)
Well worth the small effort. Download the videos at the site.
Title: Re: Mr. Injector
Post by: johnny on October 22, 2011, 05:16:41 PM: greetings astroguy...

welcome to the world famous motobrick.com...

show us your motobrick... and tell us more...

j o
Title: Re: Mr. Injector
Post by: DRxBMW on October 22, 2011, 05:24:11 PM: Quote from: astroguy on October 22, 2011, 05:11:46 PM
Well I just used the 'Mr. Injector' cleaning system for my 1986 k75 and I highly recommend them. They were fast and inexpensive and my bike purrs now, no more popping at 3800 rpm and better 'roll on' in 5th!
http://www.mrinjector.us/ (http://www.mrinjector.us/)
Well worth the small effort. Download the videos at the site.

Is there a mileage service interval for fuel injector cleaning ?

Ha, mine have never been touched per say, other than the Chevron concentrate dose a couple times a year.

THANX ____________________.
Title: Re: Mr. Injector
Post by: johnny on October 22, 2011, 05:34:51 PM: we put 100k of pretty hard 2 up miles on the bugeye motobrick with no injector service and those injectors sprayed like a moe...

j o
Title: Re: Mr. Injector
Post by: frankenduck on October 22, 2011, 05:52:46 PM: Quote from: johnny on October 22, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
we put 100k of pretty hard 2 up miles on the bugeye motobrick with no injector service and those injectors sprayed like a moe...

j o

Not exactly. This is the report from when I sent them to Mr. Injector: (red circles are mine)

(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd470/Motobrick/gen_maint/mr_injector_bug_report_card.jpg)

I'd guess 50 or 75k might be a good interval for having FIs cleaned. (25k if you're Mystic Red.)
Title: Re: Mr. Injector
Post by: johnny on October 22, 2011, 06:07:47 PM: i knew #3 was strong... everytime i had to push start it i made sure its was #3 hitting 1st when i let out the clutch...

j o
Title: Re: Mr. Injector
Post by: frankenduck on October 22, 2011, 06:15:44 PM: Those numbers are randomly assigned by Mr. I. I didn't number them when I pulled them.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: HCorn on October 28, 2011, 09:06:33 PM: I just got mine back today and installed. My report looked like yours (minus one injector). No night and day difference, but pretty good preventive maintenance for $16 apiece. I do seem to have less popping on deceleration, however.

All that AND Jolly Ranchers - it's a WIN-WIN.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: mystic red on October 29, 2011, 06:34:10 PM: Yep, the Jolly Ranchers rock.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: HCorn on November 09, 2011, 08:28:53 PM: There's a similar thread on the K-bikes forum, but I wanted to update this one too. Now that I have a couple hundred miles on the re-furbed injectors, I feel like it really has improved the performance at higher RPMs.

Prior to this, it pulled better above 4-5K but nothing dramatic compared to pulling from about 3K. Now, at about 4500+ there is a noticeable increase in power - like a graph of the power band is now a few degrees steeper. My theory is that the roughly 10% better flow rate is actually being utilized at the RPM and higher. It could be in my head, but I recently had my butt dyno calibrated and it says I gained roughly 5hp above 4500 rpm.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on February 12, 2012, 10:40:17 PM: Today I checked the TBs on my 1985 K100RS with my old CarbStix. They were all in balance, which did not surprise me since the engine is very smooth. However, I found what looks like a leaky injector on the #1 cylinder :dunno2: It's a bit hard to access because I never bothered to remove the fairing to connect up the CarbStix, but I poked a long screwdriver blade down to the base of the injector were it was wet, then smelled the tip: gasoline.
I believe the bike has low miles. I bought it used so I can't be certain but the splines sure look new. For that reason, I was surprised that it apparently has an injector leaking. Just replace the o-ring? At less than 25Kmiles, I suppose it's best to pull all of them and send them to Dr. Injector (or whatever that biz name is that the list likes so much).
I'm hoping that I can remove/replace them without screwing around with the throttle bodies and the air ducts, as just removing the air filter still confounds me :dunno
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: mystic red on February 13, 2012, 01:16:03 PM: You don't have to mess around with with the throttle bodies if you don't want to but why not replace all the rubber bits while you're in there? It may have low miles but rubber doesn't care, it's age as your o-ring is telling you. Check out this thread (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,624.0.html). It's not tough to do once the fairing is off.
Where in Iderhoe are you?
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on February 13, 2012, 07:12:32 PM: I was lying in bed last night thinking about this and concluded exactly what you suggest, Mystic. A bike that old, no matter how sweet it runs at the moment, can't be far away from needing the rubber bits renewed. I'll begin looking around for the things I need to order and do the job properly. I'm in southern Idaho, so I often ride through some really empty territory. I can't afford any breakdowns out there half- way to Winnemucca!
And thanks for the links to the relevant info. Mr. Duck and others provide such a rich technology library here I sometime get lost navigating it. :2thumbup:
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on March 10, 2012, 04:38:11 PM: I expect my injectors to be returned early next week, so I have begun to strip the K100RS to replace the rubber boots, fuel hoses and o-rings ( stuff that is now 28 years old as far as I know). I've run into what looks like a brick wall. Can anyone enlighten me as to the method for removing the plastic cover that sits over the air filter? After much twisting, pulling and cursing I was able to get the filter out, but I can't figure out how to remove the airbox cover. The large plastic duct that exits the front of the cover will not move. I thought that once the hose clamp was removed, it would be a simple matter to separate the hose from the plastic top over the filter. No way is it budging! I think it connects to the air flow sensor in the plastic cover, but how??? It looks virtually impossible to access the other end (plentum?) of the air duct to remove that hose clamp. At least with my large hands that is a non-starter. Where do I go from here? I certainly don't want to destroy any expensive bits while I "improve" my brick. :dunno
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on March 10, 2012, 05:13:58 PM: If you can't get to the screw for the plenum hose clamp then undo the two bolts in the top that hold the mass airflow sensor in and pull it back inside the top half of the air box. That should allow you to get the big rubber hose to the plenum out of the front of the air box.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Inge K. on March 10, 2012, 05:33:25 PM: Sorry to tell you, but you first have to loosen the clamp at the plenum chamber.
But still you can`t remove the upper half of the housing, as there`s no connectors
to the AFM on the outside of the housing.
You then have to remove the mounting screws for the AFM at the top of the housing.
then you can loosen the last clamp and withdraw the AFM and disconnect it.
Why do you want to remove the upper half of the airflter housing?

The bottom half is mounted with two screws, with that out of the way you have acces
to the FPR, if you`re is to change the fuel hoses.

Inge K.

EDIT: Duck did post before me, and that solution should also work.....but those screws on
the top isn`t exactly easy accessible either, with plenum hose still connected.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: wmax351 on March 10, 2012, 06:17:40 PM: You should be able to get some slack on the AFM wire. Then pull it out and put it on the top of the bike.

You can also pull the hose from the plenum, rather than the airbox side.

A long, thin screwdriver is very helpful. I have a foot and a half flathead craftsman I use for stuff like this.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on March 10, 2012, 06:22:33 PM: When you put things back together you'll want to reposition the plenum side hose clamp so that you can access it's screw from the top through the frame with a long screwdriver. That'll make it easier the next time somebody has to go in there.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on March 10, 2012, 09:06:04 PM: Thank you for the prompt relies. Sorry to be so dense, but I still can't work out how to finish this job. I think some of the info offered must apply to later bikes. I am working on a 1985 K100RS. My goal is to remove the throttle bodies and replace their o-rings, the boots and fuel hoses. I have removed one hose clamp at the front of the air filter cover. The hose is oval at the point of exit. I take it to be the duct to the plenum. The hose will not separate from the cover of the air filter. I want to remove this cover to gain access to the screws that fix the bottom of the airbox to the engine. there isn't room to reach the screws on the bottom with the cover in place. I assume this is the only way to remove the throttle bodies. True? The right rear corner of the air filter cover has two hex head screws which I removed. That did nothing to help me remove the air filter cover. Are those the screws that are attached to the air flow meter (AFM)? I can't find any others on the cover. I can't see how I can pull the AFM back if I can't get my hand under the air filter cover. What am I missing?
I sprayed the edge of the airbox-plenum duct with a lube and gave up for today. Perhaps that overnight soak will allow the oval end of the duct to be withdrawn tomorrow. If it doesn't loosen, I'll start thinking of ways to remove the hose clamp on the other end of the duct.
I've always considered wrenching on my old airheads to be quality garage time. Actually, it's a therapy of sorts. This K-bike is not fun to work on at all. I like riding it; it handles well, has good smooth power, but I'm not enjoying working on it in the least. I hope that, once sorted out, I don't have to turn a wrench on it again for a long, long time. If that doesn't prove to be the case, it's not going to be in my garage very long. :dunno2:
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on March 10, 2012, 09:25:35 PM: If you pull the snorkel off then you can get the bottom screws in the bottom half of the air box out.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: DRxBMW on March 10, 2012, 09:34:27 PM: Quote from: Lawrence on March 10, 2012, 09:06:04 PM
I've always considered wrenching on my old airheads to be quality garage time. Actually, it's a therapy of sorts. This K-bike is not fun to work on at all. I like riding it; it handles well, has good smooth power, but I'm not enjoying working on it in the least. I hope that, once sorted out, I don't have to turn a wrench on it again for a long, long time. If that doesn't prove to be the case, it's not going to be in my garage very long. :dunno2:
YES, K bikes are different animal wrenching on them.

However, once you've been around the block a few times, it does get easier.

TB's & injectors are a real pain, especially if they old.

Tranny's are a even bigger pain in ass, just ask Tooothless Grin.

Ha, ever work on a old VW,frustrating as hell. BTDT, when one needed that silly S bent wrench as nothing else has the clearance. Damn Krauts anyway.

Hang in there, things will get better.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Inge K. on March 10, 2012, 10:16:34 PM: Quote from: Lawrence on March 10, 2012, 09:06:04 PM
I want to remove this cover to gain access to the screws that fix the bottom of the airbox to the engine. there isn't room to reach the screws on the bottom with the cover in place.

Someone with smaller hands would perhaps be the correct tool for this job.
Have removed the bottom half of the airfilter housing on several old K`s (also -85`s).
First I`ve loosened the hose clamp at the at the plenum chamber to get the upper half
a bit more moveable.
For both the clamp and the bottom half screws I`ve used a small / short bit ratchet,
it`s a tool that make life much easier when working in this really tight places.

Inge K.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on March 15, 2012, 11:14:19 PM: My reconditioned injectors were returned and I'll happily add my name to the growing list of Mr. Injector's satisfied customers. There wasn't much wrong with them; only slight reductions in two from the specified spray/flow rate and apparently none were leaking. The source of fuel at the base of the no. 1 injector is a mystery, as I haven't discovered any fuel hoses that are suspect.
After reading the procedure here for the injector reconditioning I ordered new o-rings to seal the plastic connectors between the throttle bodies and the head, as recommended. However, I didn't order the plastic connectors themselves since I don't see the point of replacing things unnecessarily. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the OEM plastic connectors have no provision for an o-ring seal! Now I'm in a quandary. I don't feel good about using the plastic connectors again. If I were to fail to seal them properly (there is no gasket) the resulting intake leak would send me over the edge. Honestly, I'd much rather lube the drive-line splines that dismantle the damned throttle bodies again. They are a nightmare!
What a pickle! Now I'm facing ordering new connectors, which I hope will be designed to use my new genuine BMW o-rings.
The reason I began this maintenance was to be sure my bike was ready for a long ride at the end of this month. Now it's in pieces and I'm at the mercy of the BMW dealer to deliver the needed parts in short order.
I've always been a strong proponent of preventive maintenance, but the old line, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" sounds like very good advice just now. :confused:
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Inge K. on March 16, 2012, 12:08:26 AM: Quote from: Lawrence on March 15, 2012, 11:14:19 PM
What a pickle! Now I'm facing ordering new connectors, which I hope will be designed to use my new genuine BMW o-rings.

AFAIK o-rings is only used on the 16V and K11, on a 8V the seals is incorporated in the stubs.
Anyhow, it wont be a drawback to change the stubs on a 27 year old bike, then you know what you got.

Inge K.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on March 16, 2012, 12:16:31 AM: When you send your injectors to Mr. Injector he replaces the O-rings on both ends with new ones so you don't have to pay BMW $5 a piece for generic O-rings.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on March 16, 2012, 08:39:58 AM: Yep, the injectors are looking good, Mr. Duck. I'm very pleased with Mr. Injector's work.
It's the connector stubs I am unsure of. Should they be installed dry? It appears that was what the factory did way back in 1985. If a sealant should be used, I'd be interested in recommendations. Non-hardening Permatex gasket maker (the gooey black stuff)? Dirko? Something else?
I intend to order new stubs as you suggest Inge, but if they don't arrive in time for my Spring ride I will install the old ones and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on March 16, 2012, 09:43:11 AM: What's a "connector stub?"
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Inge K. on March 16, 2012, 10:27:07 AM: Quote from: frankenduck on March 16, 2012, 09:43:11 AM
What's a "connector stub?"
In this thread, I`ll guess it would be similar to a "intake stub".

Inge K.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: Lawrence on March 16, 2012, 11:43:51 PM: My intention was to refer to the molded plastic part that connects the intake track of the head to the throttle body. BMW incorrectly translates this part as a manifold, which of course it is not. However I should have just used their word for it to avoid confusion, and to be consistent with the parts fiche. Mea culpa.
I have caused myself a bit of unnecessary grief with this maintenance by failing to note the differences between the 1985 K100RS and later models. I believe BMW modified the bikes more than I had imagined. I read explanations of work on the later 4-valve models and thought I could do the same on my '85. This has been an education!
Thanks for your patience with my stupid questions and frustrations.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: frankenduck on March 17, 2012, 12:13:55 AM: When all else fails, use part numbers. :2thumbup:

One of my favorites is that they refer to the dash pad holding the switches on the upper fork tree as a "hub cap."

I think BMW did many of their translations during Oktoberfest.
Title: Re: Getting Fuel Injectors Reconditioned
Post by: pallum on April 10, 2012, 03:06:58 AM: I had a hell of a time getting mine out, had to pull each one separately after removing the fuel rail.

(http://i.imgur.com/3UoBNl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8AZwfl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Jsu9Fl.jpg)
Cleaned up as best I could before pulling, all that wetness is WD-40 which in hindsight might have helped keep the crud from breaking loose and falling into the head

After:
(http://i.imgur.com/zqS9Il.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3RLoGl.jpg)

Feels like it runs smoother, so money well spent.