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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: JohnG_68 on November 06, 2017, 07:09:02 PM
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Hey all,
After kind of dropping my bike into a neighbors bush at fairly low speeds, my k75 has adopted some weird clicking sound. The bike fell on its left side I believe but I rode it home at it wasn’t too bad. Since that time, today is the first day I rode it and after getting to my destination there was some gas dripping from where the injectors are. When I got home I took off the injectors and put them back. I think i’ve fixed that problem but I noticed the bike shifts more sluggishly. Maybe its just me, but my shin did ram into the shifter when I crashed. Anyways Im wondering if anyone has any idea of why the bike is clicking. It sounds like its coming from the engine. Thanks.
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It sounds like its coming from the engine.
Welcome, JohnG. Glad you seemed to have avoided serious injury when you kind of dropped your bike and that you figured out on your own how to stop the fuel leak from the injectors.
As inhabitants and adventurers in the twenty-first century, and both witnesses of and participants in its decline of written expression, we have come to rely on audio files and YouTube videos to help us identify clicks, clacks, clunks and bangs related to motorcycle engine and transmission performance. If you make a YouTube file, you can just post its link in the reply box. Alternatively, you could record the sound with your phone or another device then upload the file to the reply box using the Attachments and other options feature.
Post some clear front, rear and side profile photos of your bike. Maybe somebody will notice something. You can use the Attachments . . . feature for that, too or start a personal photo gallery using instructions from the Photo Guidance section of Welcome to Motobrick.com.
As for the bike's shifting more sluggishly, maybe the bike's falling on your leg has made the leg's operation more sluggish, not the bike's. Anyway, you've come to the right place to get it kind of sorted out. That's what we're here for.
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https://vimeo.com/241630764
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That kind of compliance is heartwarming, John. :clap:
Sounds ok to me, in fact, mine's sounded that way for 45K miles or so except it's getting a little quieter since my hearing is getting more impaired from the years of chainsaw input before I discovered earplugs. Let's find out what others think of that sound. If it were my bike and the engine oil and transmission oil levels were ok, I'd ride it into the sunset, which I guess in Oakland isn't that far. :giggles
How long have you had this bike? How many miles are on it? How many miles have you put on it?
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Either use a stethoscope or a long handled screwdriver as a substitute and see if you can narrow down where the clicking is originating.
Regards Martin.
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when you say "clicking" are you referring to the engine skipping a beat occasionally.
that was the only aberration I could detect.
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How long have you had this bike? How many miles are on it? How many miles have you put on it?
ive had it for about 6 months and there are about 60000 miles on it. Ive put on maybe 3k and haha the sunsets pretty close
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when you say "clicking" are you referring to the engine skipping a beat occasionally.
that was the only aberration I could detect.
The click i hear is kid of secondary to the main engine sound. Theres a higher pitched click in between the deep engine rumble. Sounds slightly like the coils trying to spark.
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ive had it for about 6 months and there are about 60000 miles on it. Ive put on maybe 3k . . .
I doubt there's anything wrong with it if you don't see random spark coming from the coil pack or the plug wires while it's running in the dark. You could always check for tight connections at terminals all around. Taking it out on the road and opening the throttle should tell the story.
60K is the number of miles I'd want on a K that age. It should be a reliable runner for years if the tank is clean, and it stays out of the bushes. :yes Just catch up on the maintenance. The Repair Guidance section has all the info needed.
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Sounds like a high-tension spark discharge to me. Check that all spark plug caps are firmly seated on their plugs and not just riding on the plug but disconnected. Second take the plastic mudguard off to expose the high-tension coils and look for arcing there.
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Sounds like a high-tension spark discharge to me. Check that all spark plug caps are firmly seated on their plugs and not just riding on the plug but disconnected. Second take the plastic mudguard off to expose the high-tension coils and look for arcing there.
I’ll try that out tomorrow
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Since it fell on its left side, the bump might have loosened the exhaust headers. The "clicking" or secondary sound could be puffs of exhaust gas escaping from around the exhaust gasket(s). Maybe invest in new copper exhaust gaskets and re-seat the header.
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As inhabitants and adventurers in the twenty-first century, and both witnesses of and participants in its decline of written expression, we have come to rely on audio files and YouTube videos to help us identify clicks, clacks, clunks and bangs related to motorcycle engine and transmission performance. If you make a YouTube file, you can just post its link in the reply box. Alternatively, you could record the sound with your phone or another device then upload the file to the reply box using the Attachments and other options feature.
Man, that's some damn good English there Laitch.
to the point, it sounds like ticking valves to me, but I didn't listen with headphones and my chromebook has pretty lousy "speakers"
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Man, that's some damn good English there Laitch.
Shucks, beemuker. Good English is what it's all about—from Web posts to eight-ball for shots. :giggles Making a coolant reservoir that looks like a costly Victorian coffee urn with joints that seem sculpted instead of welded isn't far behind though.
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RBM +1
Leaking headers.
Does it backfire on the over run though?
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RBM +1
Leaking headers.
Does it backfire on the over run though?
I feel like the headers make more sense. How would i test it and is it safe to ride if the headers are the problem?
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I feel like the headers make more sense. How would i test it and is it safe to ride if the headers are the problem?
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I would get down there and see if I feel gas leaking out.
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A vacuum cleaner that has the ability to reverse the flow, as in blow is good for finding exhaust leaks. Wrap a rag around the hose stick it up the COLD exhaust pipe. Using a mixture of detergent and water in a spray bottle, spray the joints and look for bubbles (soap bubbles not Michael Jacksons Chimp). Alternatively you can use an air compressor with the pressure turned down.
Regards Martin.
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That's a great idea Martin. I saw you mention that in another thread but couldn't figure out what you meant but now it's clear.
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I feel like the headers make more sense. How would i test it and is it safe to ride if the headers are the problem?
More sense than what, John? Have you done the nighttime spark leakage test with the coil and sparkplug covers removed. What exactly happened anyway. Did the bike flop down on a driveway, a lawn, a lawnchair, a sidewalk or did it just lay into a neighbors hedge? Does it have side cases that lessened its impact? Maybe you've just jammed twigs or seeds in your alternator. :giggles
Be sure to post a video of Martin's vacuum blower/soapy water test. That will be instructive for a lot of people and fun for the neighborhood kids to watch.
Your engine still sounds ok to me. That's one of the benefits or hearing impairment, I guess. Have you taken it for a cruise?
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More sense than what, John? Have you done the nighttime spark leakage test with the coil and sparkplug covers removed. What exactly happened anyway. Did the bike flop down on a driveway, a lawn, a lawnchair, a sidewalk or did it just lay into a neighbors hedge? Does it have side cases that lessened its impact? Maybe you've just jammed twigs or seeds in your alternator. :giggles
Be sure to post a video of Martin's vacuum blower/soapy water test. That will be instructive for a lot of people and fun for the neighborhood kids to watch.
Your engine still sounds ok to me. That's one of the benefits or hearing impairment, I guess. Have you taken it for a cruise?
Ok so i did martins test and the spark test and didn’t find anything conclusive. Both seem to be working just fine.
What happened is I went around a corner too wide and there weren’t any lights on the street so it was too late and the bike went into a neighbors bush. It went straight in and then fell on its side but not too hard. It sat there for maybe 10 min before I could get it up.
I took it for a 20 minute ride today and It felt a little “underpowered” to me. Like when I revved it, the bike didn’t sound quite as loud or aggressive as it did before. Like it was slightly muffled. Maybe it’s just me but my gut tells me somethings slightly off. It also didnt feel quite as powerful; torque-wise. Maybe its because it was a little chilly out (50 degree f).
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Remove your spark plugs, are they wet or dry are the covered in carbon? If they are dirty replace them and report back after you have ridden. It is just possible that oil might have leaked into the combustion chamber and you plugs could be partially fouled.
Regards Martin.
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Like when I revved it, the bike didn’t sound quite as loud or aggressive as it did before. Like it was slightly muffled. Maybe it’s just me but my gut tells me somethings slightly off.
How long have you had this bike? How many miles are on the odometer? How many miles have you put on it? Have you posted some photos of it somewhere on the site? Please do, maybe here in the Klassic K-Bike section. (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.0.html)
Just keep riding it. You had a spill. That will affect your perception of things for a while. A little less power is the order of the day anyway. Don't obsess about the bike's performance. Check it thoroughly for twigs and foreign matter in the works, check that all vulnerable electrical connections are secure then keep riding it.
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Ok so I’ve given the bike a good bit of time to heal itself, and nothings really changed. That same clicking sound is still there. Like a mechanical spark plug-esk click coming from under the cylinder head cover.
I’m thinking some small piece that rotates at high rpms in there is either misaligned, cracked, or something of the sort. If anyone wouldn’t mind listening again, the video I posted earlier in the thread has the click in it, but the video doesn’t do justice to it sounding problematic. The high pitched little, repetitive click under the proper rumble.
Anyway, I drained the oil and took off the cylinder head cover. Looking in here right now I don’t see any glaring problems but can anyone tell me where I should be looking? Anyone have another idea?
Thanks in advance,
John
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Either buy a automotive stethoscope or use a large long screwdriver as a stethoscope and see if you can narrow down the location of the noise.
Regards Martin.
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Check the location in Reply #11 using the screwdriver like Martin suggests. Remove the coil cover and run the bike in the dark to find sparks discharging from bad wires or loose connections. Remove the spark plug cover and check that the plug wires are firmly connected to the plugs and their wires are not randomly discharging spark either.
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I’ve already done a spark test and everything’s proper. The click came from the cylinder heads I’m pretty sure
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John get a long handled large screwdriver, put the handle to your ear, left or right it does not matter. Put the blade of the screw driver on the start of the engine cover, move the screwdriver along the cover. The clicking sound will get louder as you narrow down the location.
Regards Martin.
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Ok so I thought I found the clicking inside the cylinder head cover. I took them out and checked em. Put it back together and it wouldn’t start. I thought I tightened the caps too tight but got a torque wrench and retightened. I don’t think I changed anything but it won’t start...
https://youtu.be/x6p6SzQBCvA
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I don’t think I changed anything but it won’t start...
What is the battery's resting voltage?
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What is the battery's resting voltage?
I can re-check but the resting voltage is around 11
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Battery voltage way too low. You need to either charge it or if it won't take a charge replace the battery.
Regards Martin.
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There seems to be some sort of planetary alignment that is killing a lot of batteries lately...
...a voltopalypse...
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Hope JohnG doesn't have ABS..... :popcorm
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There seems to be some sort of planetary alignment that is killing a lot of batteries lately...
...a voltopalypse...
Yeah Gryph! I had the same observation. Last year, the planets aligned in a way to cause numerous fuel sender failures. And the year before that, it was starter relays.
@Johng_68: In this thread and the other one, you stated you removed and replaced the cam shaft, but were non-specific as to the process you followed. From the video, it's apparent the cam chain cover was not touched, so you might have upset the valve timing. I'd try to carefully rotate the engine by hand to verify that there is no interference throughout the engine cycle. The process to follow:
- Remove all spark plugs
- You will notice a hex-shaped milling on the left end of the cam shafts beside the timing chain sprockets. Using a 17mm open-end wrench, engage the intake cam on this hex milling.
- Rotate the engine by turning the cam shaft COUNTER-CLOCKWISE as viewed from the front of the bike (push the open-end wrench towards the ceiling, not the floor)
- Repeat until the engine has gone through all four cycles at least once. Try to sense any interference between valves and pistons during this process.
The BMW OEM manual for the K75 is available for download from this site (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,2252.0.html).
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Yeah Gryph! I had the same observation. Last year, the planets aligned in a way to cause numerous fuel sender failures. And the year before that, it was starter relays.
@Johng_68: In this thread and the other one, you stated you removed and replaced the cam shaft, but were non-specific as to the process you followed. From the video, it's apparent the cam chain cover was not touched, so you might have upset the valve timing. I'd try to carefully rotate the engine by hand to verify that there is no interference throughout the engine cycle. The process to follow:
- Remove all spark plugs
- You will notice a hex-shaped milling on the left end of the cam shafts beside the timing chain sprockets. Using a 17mm open-end wrench, engage the intake cam on this hex milling.
- Rotate the engine by turning the cam shaft COUNTER-CLOCKWISE as viewed from the front of the bike (push the open-end wrench towards the ceiling, not the floor)
- Repeat until the engine has gone through all four cycles at least once. Try to sense any interference between valves and pistons during this process.
The BMW OEM manual for the K75 is available for download from this site (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,2252.0.html).
You’re correct about not removing the cam chain cover. I got the plugs out and am trying to turn the shafts but they won’t budge. The bike is in neutral if that matters. What arn’t I doing...
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It's an interference engine so probably you're a tooth out on the timing chain, meaning the pistons are hitting the valves. Time to dismantle the engine and do the cam shafts correctly.
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+1 do not force it.
Regards Martin.
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It's an interference engine so probably you're a tooth out on the timing chain, meaning the pistons are hitting the valves. Time to dismantle the engine and do the cam shafts correctly.
Oh boy... so a full disassembly... I know how to take it apart but what am I to change once it’s in pieces? Any guides out there?
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Oh boy... so a full disassembly... I know how to take it apart but what am I to change once it’s in pieces? Any guides out there?
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Are there timing marks I could utilize so I don’t have to disassemble everything?
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I provided a link to the OEM service manual a couple of posts back. Your second best guide after the OEM manual is a real life paper-based copy of the Clymers manual.There is also a softcopy of the Haynes manual available over on the K100-forum download section but that's your third choice; there are tons of errors in that manual.
Timing marks are on the cam sprockets but you really have to follow the factory procedure to get it right, sorry.
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I provided a link to the OEM service manual a couple of posts back. Your second best guide after the OEM manual is a real life paper-based copy of the Clymers manual.There is also a softcopy of the Haynes manual available over on the K100-forum download section but that's your third choice; there are tons of errors in that manual.
Timing marks are on the cam sprockets but you really have to follow the factory procedure to get it right, sorry.
Could this have been the clicking noise from before after I had a rather gentle crash. It sounded like metal clacking from inside the cylinder head cover. And what specifically am I looking to redo or realign? What’s the key phrase
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Download the OEM manual and familiarize yourself with the process that you're going to follow. It starts on Page 11-79.0 and ends on page 11.82.0. You'll be required to remove the frame and driveline from the motor and get the motor on the bench. Remove the cam chain cover will be part of the process, which will also involve removing the HES assembly. The process is tersely described in the OEM manual and it assumes a certain familiarity with the engine. That's where the Clymer's comes in handy. It is more verbose in its description of the process. Starting in Chapter 4 on page 89, it goes into excruciating detail on the disassembly, setting and validation of the cam timing.
I've not done with procedure myself, so I'm probably not the best source for detailed information. If I could have been that resource for you, I probably could have offered additional diagnosis information to you to help you determine the cause of the clicking in the first place. But I wasn't so I didn't. I'm more of an electrical guy than a mechanical guy, but there are numerous individuals on this site with the experience you'll need to tap into. Again, sorry that I can't be the knowledge resource you hope for.
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I got the plugs out and am trying to turn the shafts but they won’t budge. The bike is in neutral if that matters. What arn’t I doing...
Describe exactly how you are trying to rotate the camshafts. Robert has already described the process in this thread but maybe you need some more clarity.
If it comes down to reassembly, I like the Haynes manual description of assembling and timing the camshafts (https://www.bskspeedworks.co.uk/downloads/BMW__k100-k75_Haynes_Manual.pdf), compliments of BSK Speedworks UK.
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GOOD NEWS!!!
You do not need to disassemble the engine anymore beyond removing the valve cover and the timing chain cover on th ront of the engine to correctly time the valves. This can all be done with the engine still in the frame. I have done this three times, so I know what is required. Besides changing the chain, the procedure is required to change shims on 4 valve engines because you need to remove the cams.
What you want to do is look for the procedure for replacing the timing chain. You aren't replacing the chain, but the procedure for putting it all together involves timing the valves. It's fairly simple, just time consuming(It will probably take you a whole day if you are unfamiliar with the engine, and I suspect you are).