MOTOBRICK.COM
TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: bluebossa on September 26, 2017, 04:55:02 AM
-
Howdy,
Recently commissioned K75 was running fine, now won't start.
Sparks present
Engine Turns Over
Splutters, coughs and backfires
Battery Charged 13.2V
Took the plugs out - which seemed to be wet and cleaned them
Took the Tank off to clean out the fuel pump and also found a suspect connector which was replaced.
When the ignition key is turned on the Fuel pump DOES NOT whirr - which I am used too on my other K75...
So I took the pump out of the tank and Wired the fuel pump direct to a battery and it pumps.
When cranking with the fuel pipe from the tank disconnected, fuel pumps into a Can...
Do all K75s have to have that Fuel pump priming noise when the key is turned?
Mine doesn't do this so what would that point too?
I'm thinking something is wrong with the Pump of Control system?
Any ideas gratefully received.
-
From what I have read of the k75's, they do not prime with key on. Only when starter button is pressed.
-
When the ignition key is turned on the Fuel pump DOES NOT whirr - which I am used too on my other K75... Mine doesn't do this so what would that point too?
It doesn't point to anything yet, as far as I'm concerned.
My K75 does not whir when the key is turned to On. The pump makes no sound when the key is turned to the On position and never has. Your other K75 is the first I've read about where the pump makes a whir when the key is turned to On. More information is needed to make a diagnosis.
The spark plugs, their gaps, the spark plug lead connection sequence, the water temperature sensor connection and its operating range, the overall wiring condition to the parts involved—all must be checked in turn to remedy this very common condition of used bikes that have been neglected.
-
I would take apart every electrical connector and toothbrush them with baking soda and vinegar. Before putting them back together I would get some pig fat, also known as lard, anyway some really nice pig fat and spread it on every conector and button it up.
-
I would take apart every electrical connector and toothbrush them with baking soda and vinegar. Before putting them back together I would get some pig fat, also known as lard, anyway some really nice pig fat and spread it on every conector and button it up.
What do you do about the ants?
-
I would give the ants a popsicle.
-
Thanks guys...
Maybe I'm getting confused then with the K1100RS I owned, that definetely made the noise on key on.
Good to know.
This afternoon - took the tank off, took apart every connector, cleaned and put some WD40 on them and put them back.
Cleaned all the earths, took out the Relays and did the same.
3 Big Fat sparks so definitely no issues there - checked Gaps on plugs - couple of tweaks, cleaned them and refitted.
I still think it's fueling, Fuel pressure.
Uploaded a Video to YouTube to help... diagnose?
https://www.youtube.com/y5gTe-ixNgM (http://www.youtube.com/y5gTe-ixNgM)
-
www.youtube.com/y5gTe-ixNgM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5gTe-ixNgM)
-
Sounds like the firing order is wrong. Have you verified correct plug wires to correct cylinders?
-
Yep - first link duff - but embedded above
-
I used to have starting problems on an old E36 coupe. The issue was leaky fuel injectors, that would flood the car. If I turned the engine off with a cold engine (like backing out of the garage), it will not start next day. From what I read, plugs fouled, you might have such a problem. I used to clean and dry the plugs with a hot air gun, wait for at least a day, charge the battery full, and crank the car with the gas pedal to the floor, to lean whatever mix in the cylinders.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Thanks BrickMW - but the leads are sized exactly and haven't been moved since it was running perfectly.
It was started post build and ran perfectly for 50km then just wouldn't start and is in the mode you hear in the Video...
Sparks are all present and strong, plugs are gapped and new, Battery is charged and at 13.2.
-
Just another thought - when we took the tank off yesterday, there was a load of crud stirred up and settled in the Fuel Filter.
Clean the filter, flushed the Tank with petrol and refitted
I'm wondering whether some of the flakes could have reached the Injectors and blocked them?
How to diagnose and check?
-
I don't hear the pump run on for 1.5 seconds after you release the start button in the video. Can you positively confirm that is happening? It would point to tank connector problems. I think the bike is farting because the fuel is just leaking into the cylinders and then enough accumulates to ignite.
-
Your 1100 has a Motronic ECU which runs the fuel pump for 2 seconds when the key is turned on. The K75 has a Jetronic ECU which turns on the fuel pump for two seconds when the starter button is pushed. Both require a signal from the Hall Effect Sensors to keep the pump running.
Try to start and then pull a spark plug. Is it wet or dry? If it is wet and you can smell fuel you may have a flooded engine. I had a similar problem recently. Once the engine is flooded, the enrichening of the mixture for a cold engine will keep flooding the engine with fuel. The best way to clear the flood is to unplug the tank connector and run the starter. It will take several seconds of burping and farting before it will fire for a second or two. Reconnect the tank connector and try again. The chances are good it will start. You might have to do this a couple of times.
-
Hi RBM - we do hear the pump for a second or so after the start - can confirm that..
-
Hey the Mighty Gryphon - thanks for the tips.The Mighty Gryphon (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2255)
Can confirm that the plugs are wet when we pull them. I say we as the Bike is a friend of mine and I'm lending him a hand to try and get it going.
There is a Bike night tonight in Dubai and we were doing everything we could to get it out for it's first showing.
I'll try starting it with the main Fuel pipe disconnected - think that is what you are suggesting, though guess Fuel will pump out. So need to rig a catch tank?
Also planning to Sun bake the plug to give them a dry out.. But great sparks so no issue there...
-
Can confirm that the plugs are wet when we pull them. I say we as the Bike is a friend of mine and I'm lending him a hand to try and get it going.
There is a Bike night tonight in Dubai and we were doing everything we could to get it out for it's first showing.
I'll try starting it with the main Fuel pipe disconnected - think that is what you are suggesting, though guess Fuel will pump out. So need to rig a catch tank?
Also planning to Sun bake the plug to give them a dry out.. But great sparks so no issue there...
-
If the plugs are wet try starting it with fuel pump fuse removed.
Regards Martin.
-
Thanks Martin will do... which fuse is it top to bottom?
-
Number six from the top marked Krafftstoppe on the lid.
Regards Martin.
-
Number six from the top marked Krafftstoppe on the lid.
Regards Martin.
Thanks Martin v Helpful..
-
Download the K75 Rider's Manual at this link (https://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,1813.msg8952.html#msg8952), bluebossa. You can then look up what the other fuses handle, plus learn other features of your bike.
-
BlueBossa, I was referring to disconnecting the electrical connector to the tank. That will cut the power to the fuel pump without shutting off anything else. The idea is to crank the engine to blow out the extra fuel that is flooding the engine. I find it is easier than trying to get the right fuse. Once the engine is cleared out and will fire properly reconnect the connector and try starting again. If the problem was too much fuel in the cylinders, it should now start.
-
So the latest installment - we (myself and Tony, the owner) still can't get it to run, we've spent 2/3 days on it now, Tank off, Tank on, Plugs in, Plugs Out.
We've so far:
- Charged the Battery and tried an additional Booster to ensure we get Max Amperes, Volts
- Latest - We took the injectors out and got them Sonic cleaned - some rust flakes were noted in the Fuel line - refitted, still won't start.
- Still got 3 Sparks - each plug when cranking, plugs cleaned, dried, re-gapped and are new. Big Blue Sparks when cranking
- Cleaned every Earth and Connector on the Bike - had every connector apart - including the ECU, cleaned, WD40 and re-fitted
At a loss now, the Bike was running after the re-build, did 50km, then overnight decided not to run again - very frustrating.
- The Pump is switching in and out, it runs for a second or so after cranking - so that means relay is working and wiring is OK - we've re terminated the Pump connectors
- Plugs have been taken out, cleaned, heat dried and we've run the engine without Fuel connected to try and burn off any excess or flooding..
Ideas still welcomed on what to try next...?
[size=78%]We're losing the plot with it now a little... [/size]
-
If the plugs are wet after trying to start it could be a faulty temperature sensor or temperature sensor connector. Clean the connector with Deoxit and test the sensor. Type in temperature sensor testing lots of posts on how to do it. My K75 has had this happen twice due to it's location, water and road scum gets in causing bad connectivity. After cleaning smear heavy silicon grease around the connector it will help in stopping water and scum getting in.
Regards Martin.
-
A faulty temp sensor or connector tells the computer that the engine is cold and it needs more fuel. This then causes flooding, the bike can be started by removing the fuel pump fuse. With the fuse removed try and start the bike it should start on the residual fuel in the combustion chamber. As the residual fuel is used up the engine will start to die, as this happens quickly ram home the fuse, you will need to manipulate the throttle to keep the bike running. It helps to have two people to do this, one on the throttle and one to ram it home, the two times it has happened to me I have limped home using this method. If the engine stops you will have to restart the whole process a bit of throttle manipulation is required at traffic lights. When I first got my Brick I was told by an Ex BMW tech to clean all the electrical connectors on the bike with Deoxit, which I did but I also used dielectric or heavy silicone grease on them. I believe that the grease around the connectors stops water and air getting in that will eventually lead to bad connectivity. A lot of inmates disagree on the addition of the grease saying it can cause problems by insulating. I've had two electrical problems in twenty years because this connector was a pain to get at. Since I've done it I've had no problems.
Regards Martin.
-
Thanks Martin, will give this line of enquiry a go!
The Bike has a new Fuel Pump - but is located in Dubai, which as you may know is hot - 40 degrees C in the day at the moment.
Bike ran fine for 50km - then decided it didn't want to start.
Fuel Pump and Fuel Pump is new... will report
-
Have you checked the temperature sensor in the radiator stand pipe for proper connection and operation? If the wrong resistance is fed to the EFI, the bike will not start (the EFI will think the coolant is overheated). Remember that there are two sensors in one package; one for the temp relay and one for the ICU.
-
Thanks Robert - that's on the to do list for tomorrow.
Can you just disconnect it and try starting?
-
No it will think the bike is cold and flood the engine.
Regards Martin.
-
RBM what size resistor would you need to bridge the connector with to fool the ECU. I've done it with a variable resistor but would it be possible with one.
Regards Martin.
-
So 2 of us for spent 5 hours today on the K75 trying to troubleshoot and get it going again today the best we had was a couple of misfires.
Fuel Injectors have been sonic cleaned, new O Rings - Pump is working
- This K75 really does just feel like a Brick now... still not running!
Here's what we did following your advice and reading various posts from others on here and elsewhere with Similar issues...
Took the Airbox off to get to the Temperature Sensor
Removed the Temp Sensor - cleaned terminals
Measured it's resistance at Room Temp - 1.8K Ohms
Measured it's resistance in Boiling Water - Minimum it would get too was around 400 Ohms - which according to others is too high?
So this is Suspect and could well be causing a rich Mixture perhaps?
Cleaned Airflow Meter - all looks good, springs and closure and free movement.
We then set about Sparks - which seemed to have gone missing on the first plug... towards the front of the Bike/Engine
We at first thought we had none, but removing all three showed 2 out of 3 had healthy sparks
Traced ICU cables from Coils all appear OK - ICU out, cleaned out terminals
Hall Sensor - was new - cleaned and refitted
At this point plugs 2 and 3 were firing - 1 was not.
So we switched plug leads to isolate the fault as best we could
All 3 Coils Fire - be switching leads
All 3 leads work... process of elimination
All 3 plugs work... process of elimination
Fuel is reaching plugs, petrol on plugs when removed and cleaned
Measured Voltage of Fully Charged and Nearly new Battery - 13.3 standing, 12.5 cranking
Tried a Booster Pack incase it was Starter Motor related - taking all the juice.
So we're thinking the firing is down to a faulty ICU, ECU or Hall Sensor?
What say ye oh Oracle...
-
All 3 leads work... process of elimination
All 3 plugs work... process of elimination
Removed the Temp Sensor - cleaned terminals
Measured it's resistance at Room Temp - 1.8K Ohms
Measured it's resistance in Boiling Water - Minimum it would get too was around 400 Ohms - which according to others is too high?
So this is Suspect and could well be causing a rich Mixture perhaps?
What say ye oh Oracle...
I'd say an oracle isn't needed.
The K100 troubleshooting guide in the Repair Guidance section (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,5067.0.html) gives accurate information for diagnostic tests; most of them apply to K75 bikes.
This post gives accurate information for plug and coil wire layout (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,7825.msg56154.html#msg56154).
Are you using either of those for guidance? Your responses don't quite indicate where you're getting information. :yes With what source are you comparing the range of the temp sensor. Who are the "others"? Are they the bald guys with the fedoras I saw on "Fringe"?
These starting problems often end with "Well, lookee there! I didn't get that plugged in right," although some of them end with "FS: Low mileage K-bike." :giggles
-
I'd say an oracle isn't needed.
The K100 troubleshooting guide in the Repair Guidance section (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,5067.0.html) gives accurate information for diagnostic tests; most of them apply to K75 bikes.
This post gives accurate information for plug and coil wire layout (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,7825.msg56154.html#msg56154).
Are you using either of those for guidance? Your responses don't quite indicate where you're getting information. :yes With what source are you comparing the range of the temp sensor. Who are the "others"? Are they the bald guys with the fedoras I saw on "Fringe"?
These starting problems often end with "Well, lookee there! I didn't get that plugged in right," although some of them end with "FS: Low mileage K-bike." :giggles
Hey Laitch been following that guide extensively for several days now.. trying everything, but have no spare parts as we are in the middle of the desert..
Also researching other posts on this forum..
First thought it was fuelling, now have only 2 out of 3 sparks which the guide doesn't cover...
-
I would suspect one of the Hall sensors at this point. There are two sensors that determine 2 of the three spark timings based on crank position. The third timing is interpolated by the ICU based on the other two. If one sensor is bad or intermittent, it could cause the problem you see. If you can get ahold of an oscilloscope to do some probing, it would help immensely.
-
I would suspect one of the Hall sensors at this point. There are two sensors that determine 2 of the three spark timings based on crank position. The third timing is interpolated by the ICU based on the other two. If one sensor is bad or intermittent, it could cause the problem you see. If you can get ahold of an oscilloscope to do some probing, it would help immensely.
Thanks RBM.
We took the cover off the hall sensor, looks brand new.
No oscilloscope.
Cleaned and replaced...
Could this also point to a bad ICU?
Planning to see if Bosch locally can test both ICU and ECU... Don't hold out much hope though due to our location.. They are off the bike ready to take in tomorrow. No availability in country of replacements.
We don't know of any other KBikes in the region...
-
I think you should do more than a cursory inspection and clean of the Hall Sensors. Test the electrical characteristics of the unit. Looking visually new is not an indicator that the unit has electrically failed. The probability of a failed ICU is remote.
-
Update, ordered a few spares from the UK. Planning a systematic swop out...
-
So, another 5 hours of troubleshooting today and still no joy...
Did this...
1. Replaced with recently arrived known good spares, ECU, Ignition Unit, Hall Effect Sensor, New Plugs
2. Tried starting with Tank Fuse out, TPS out
3. Coils off and all Earths cleaned
4. Starter Motor out and cleaned internally
5. Switched out Fuel Relay, Load Relay and Start Relay - no change
Sparks on 2/3 of the plugs - but weak and yellow.
We then tried a second Battery on Jump leads - and got 2 big blue sparks... still no start.
The Bike has a new Lithium 21 to 24 Amp Battery - any issues with these as I'm suspicious that it's not up to the job.
Next area of suspicion is Fuel Pressure which we can't check as we don't have a gauge.
Plugs get a bit of fuel but not washed with it... also Pump seems to be heard sometimes and not others.
Really need help now, and can only come up with the Lithium Battery and Fuel Pressure Regulator...
HELP !!!
-
Sparks on 2/3 of the plugs - but weak and yellow.
We then tried a second Battery on Jump leads - and got 2 big blue sparks... still no start.
In Reply #32 you wrote that all plugs had good spark. Then you switched the plug leads and the status changed to two out of three working. In Reply #34 you wrote that still only two plugs had spark. That is still the case in your last post. How old are those plugs? I think you don't need to consider fuel pressure right now. What was the measurement used when you "re-gapped" the plugs.
Have you compared your plug layout and primary coil wire connections to those described and pictured at the link in Reply #33? Are they the same? If they aren't, a mix-up could be the source of your problem.
After verifying correct connections, you might remove the spark plug cover from the camshaft cover, charge up the battery, turn out the lights then crank the engine and check the plug leads and coils for random spark leakage. Decaying wire wires will provide a minor light-show.
Which type of Lithium battery are you using—ion or iron-phosphate? A new battery of the appropriate output should be up to the job for a while. Is this a different battery than the one that was charged at the beginning of this thread?
This seems to be leaning to the Well, lookee there side of the remedy list, which is a good thing. :giggles
-
Hi Laitch - thanks for sticking with us...
Battery is the same one from the start - nearly new and kept on charge, conditioning..
When we jumped it with another we got Blue sparks..
Yes - we had 3 sparks now we have 2.
Re order of the plugs, yep - we spent a good 30 minutes checking which coil to which plug... though order hadn't changed, though we think at times we are going mad with it now... so changed 1 and 3 around anyway in line with Haynes... it ran with original order fine...
We also had a BEP 3 which is a wiring module for the Cafe style Speedo - we took all wiring off to eliminate it from out inquiries.
Not tried the dark test - worth a go...
We've been thinking we should resort to an old fashioned Bump start to take the Starter out of the equation - only trouble is it's still 35 degrees here in Dubai !
-
Have you checked the temperature sensor in the radiator stand pipe for proper connection and operation? If the wrong resistance is fed to the EFI, the bike will not start (the EFI will think the coolant is overheated). Remember that there are two sensors in one package; one for the temp relay and one for the ICU.
Had a replacement/spare sensor - checked and compared resistance to one in the Bike - identical
-
Which type of Lithium battery are you using—ion or iron-phosphate?
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4, LFE) is new generation Li-Ion rechargeable battery for high power applications
-
- only trouble is it's still 35 degrees here in Dubai !
That means something a little different in Vermont, USA. It means put on the toque. :giggles
-
That means something a little different in Vermont, USA. It means put on the toque. :giggles
Whats a Toque?#
35 Degrees C today - bloomin Hot
-
Canadien head gear.
-
Canadien head gear.
Thanks!
2 Brits in Dubai here... one K75 still not starting...
-
So the latest installment... still not starting...
12V Lithium Charged and 12v Booster Attached
- We got some Easy Start spray over the weekend - took out the Air Filter and gave it a dose
- Cleaned Earths at Frame again
- We took out the Injectors and watched the spray pattern/volocity - looks weak to us, mild squirting going on but nothing to compare it too except a Video on Youtbe, but all three are squirting fuel. We've ordered a Manometer to measure Fuel Pressure and Drop.
- Started to measure voltage and resistance at the ICU Female Connector
- Sparks wise we had nothing again, went back to the troubleshooting bible and measured a low voltage on Pin 2 of the ICU - the Hall sensor Feed - not 12v, more like 11v dropping to 8v when cranking which would point to issues energizing the Coils and wiring problems
- So we fashioned a direct permanent 12v direct to the Hall Sensor plug - 2/3 sparks came back.
In all we had it firing and popping, breifly - but only we suspect on 2/3 cylinders and only consuming Fast Start not Petrol/Gas.
Saw an online video about squirting 10ml of Oil into Each Cylinder - to get it too start, but not tried this...?
Anyone one know if this is real - Engine Oil?
In addition we've swopped out and gone back to original after no change most of the major ignition units including ICU, ECU, Hall Sensor, New Plugs, Fuel Relay, Checked all Fuses, Starter Relay, Compared Water Temp Sensor to known good for resistance = identical.
So we still have what seems like Electrical gremlins - low Voltage/bad Earth to Hall Sensor - New Earth strap ordered.
Suspected low Fuel pressure - but unconfirmed pointing at Pump or Pressure Regulator?
As ever, ideas and further lines of enquiry welcomed - the Bike is still driving us both mad..
We've also used all the other tricks learnt to date - taking the Pump Fuse out and putting it back in, taking the TPS connector on and off.
With Easy start - it needed the Choke out to part fire.. and it only ran rough for a few seconds, pointing at Fuelling issues we think. Pump is activating and all relays are kicking in.
Can anyone confirm the Fuel Pump Pressure on a K75 for when we get the Meter?
K100 Guide says 65 PSI from Pump dropping to 35 PSI at the regulator - is this the same for the K75?
Can anyone give a definitive on why we are only seeing 2 sparks out of 3 - what does that point too?
Thanks again for bearing with this sorry tale...
-
So the latest installment... still not starting..can anyone confirm . . .
The fuel pressure is correct.
Did you do the dark room crank looking for sparking wires? 2/3 plugs is pointing to your ignition system.
-
So the latest installment... still not starting...
We took out the Injectors and watched the spray pattern/volocity - looks weak to us, mild squirting going on but nothing to compare it too except a Video on Youtbe, but all three are squirting fuel. We've ordered a Manometer to measure Fuel Pressure and Drop.
The injector spray pattern should be strong, not weak. If you are uncertain of the supplied fuel pressure, then the resulting pattern could be caused by (1) dirty/stuck injectors or (2) low pressure. Can you find a local diesel repair shop who could refurbish the injectors?
Sparks wise we had nothing again, went back to the troubleshooting bible and measured a low voltage on Pin 2 of the ICU - the Hall sensor Feed - not 12v, more like 11v dropping to 8v when cranking which would point to issues energizing the Coils and wiring problems
So we fashioned a direct permanent 12v direct to the Hall Sensor plug - 2/3 sparks came back.
How did you measure the voltage drop across the HES? Was it using a digital voltmeter? Was the voltmeter set to AC Volts or DC volts? I think your diagnosis process is flawed. It doesn't truely tell you the condition of the HES since the DCV setting is not responding fast enough and the ACV setting would show you the true RMS value of the resulting output. You'll have to use an oscilloscope or LED to test the HES.
Can anyone confirm the Fuel Pump Pressure on a K75 for when we get the Meter?
K100 Guide says 65 PSI from Pump dropping to 35 PSI at the regulator - is this the same for the K75?
Yes, those pressures are also applicable to the K75.
-
The injector spray pattern should be strong, not weak. If you are uncertain of the supplied fuel pressure, then the resulting pattern could be caused by (1) dirty/stuck injectors or (2) low pressure. Can you find a local diesel repair shop who could refurbish the injectors?
>> Thanks RBM - The Injectors have been out and sonic Cleaned in the last couple of weeks... Pressure gauge / Manometer on order for proper pressure measurement.
How did you measure the voltage drop across the HES? Was it using a digital voltmeter? Was the voltmeter set to AC Volts or DC volts? I think your diagnosis process is flawed. It doesn't truely tell you the condition of the HES since the DCV setting is not responding fast enough and the ACV setting would show you the true RMS value of the resulting output. You'll have to use an oscilloscope or LED to test the HES.
>> The Voltage I am referring too is from the Troubleshooting guide and is the energizing voltage rather than the operational RMS Values. i.e. it should be 12V static on Ignition on. When we crank it reads down to 8V DC not AC, we don't have an oscilliscope.
Yes, those pressures are also applicable to the K75.
>> Thanks
-
The fuel pressure is correct.
Did you do the dark room crank looking for sparking wires? 2/3 plugs is pointing to your ignition system.
Hi Laitch when you say Fuel pressure is correct, do you mean the 65 and 35 PSI I quote are correct for the K75?
Re Dark Room test - yep we turned the lights off today as you suggested, no stray sparks, arcing witnessed.
If it's pointing to our ignition system - to which part is it pointing?
-
The Voltage I am referring too is from the Troubleshooting guide and is the energizing voltage rather than the operational RMS Values. i.e. it should be 12V static on Ignition on. When we crank it reads down to 8V DC not AC, we don't have an oscilliscope.
Ok, got it. I just assumed that you were measuring the output of the HES but you're measuring the supply voltage to the HES. And you're seeing a substantial drop in the supply voltage during cranking (some reduction in supply voltage during cranking is to be expected but not 4 volts). Can you also measure the terminal voltage drop during cranking at the battery? If it also is 4 volts or theres about, the CCA capacity of the battery may be insufficient.
Is it possible to eliminate one unknown factor from your testing -- the LiPo battery. Can you remove the LiFePo battery and test with a regular lead acid instead, maybe even a spare car battery temporarily hooked up with jumpers? You can't say for sure whether the LiFePo battery you've been using is sufficiently sized in CCA to not cause these problems.
-
Hi Laitch when you say Fuel pressure is correct, do you mean the 65 and 35 PSI I quote are correct for the K75?
Re Dark Room test - yep we turned the lights off today as you suggested, no stray sparks, arcing witnessed.
If it's pointing to our ignition system - to which part is it pointing?
Yes that's what I meant and that's what rbm indicated also.
The condition of only two out of three spark plugs igniting points me to the ignition system.
-
Saw an online video about squirting 10ml of Oil into Each Cylinder - to get it too start, but not tried this...?
Anyone one know if this is real - Engine Oil?
If you mean were you watching a video with special effects and that no motor oil was used, no. It was real. The technique can restore compression in an engine that has been idle for months or years. Restored compression helps the fuel ignite. It's difficult to get any engine started when enough fuel might not be getting to the cylinders and only two out of three spark plugs are firing as you have indicated is the condition of your bike's engine.
-
Pardon me, have you checked the cylinder compression? (Not that poor compression can be the result of only two plugs firing, or vice versa, etc. etc. but if compression is not high enough, no amount of gas, or spark will start an engine)( I think that is what the reference to squirting oil in the cylinders was, to raise compression in the cylinder) It would seem to me, if you have some good spark, and some fuel, GOOD FUEL,( I mean your in Dubai :hehehe ), and have good compression, it should at least belch and fart on occasion when you attempt to start it? And I haven't seen where you have confirmed you have good flow of gas to the FPR?
Damn. Once again Laitch has beaten me to the punch! I throw in the towel!! :falldown:
I need to learn to compose faster and more concisely...................I rewrite everything a dozen timessssss! :musicboohoo:
-
Sure would be nice for the folks who took the time to respond to this thread know what your conclusion was bluebossa? Hello?????? :nono Even if you "gave up"? I would like to know?? :popcorm
-
So - we got back onto the K75 - we kept on fiddling.... then Boom, we discovered the issue and got it running...
We only got it running this last week so apologies for the delay, but we lost interest in it for a few weeks after all the troubleshooting and time we'd put in...
After following everything on this thread, and more plus following the troubleshooting guide it turned out to be>
A FAULTY IGNITION SWITCH - HIGH RESISTANCE ON THE INTERNALS
Here's what we did. After checking again basic Top Dead Centre, Timing Hall Sensor position and Fuel Pressure with a Manometer.
[/size]We reverted to the Old Clocks and noticed that fully charged and connected the Ignition lights were weak?
As we'd taken the ignition switch off from it's modified position on the tank, we were holding this away from the Bike in order to turn it on... My brother noticed that a slight bend of the Ignition wires brought the Dash lights back to Full strength?
So while pushing on the rear of the Ignition barrel - we cranked it up.
Boom - It sprung into life... We couldn't believe it...!!
We noticed that one of the Connections of 3 on the switch was taking all the Amps - RED HOT to the Touch... i.e. it was draining all the current to the entire Electronics...
We dismantled the entire Ignition switch - which was the original unit, cleaned everything out, and put everything back together...
A quick tweak of the Timing and it's up and running....
I'll re-read the troubleshooting guide, but I think I'm right in saying nothing is mentioned about checking the Ignition switch - we spent hours, cleaning connections, earths, suspecting it was Voltage related but didn't come across this until a fresh pair of eyes appeared...
Thanks to everyone who helped and I hope this helps others!!
In short nothing wrong with any ECU, ICU, Injectors, Sensors, Fuel Pump, Fuel Pressure, Relays, Fuses, Earths, Battery, Connections, Cables, Throttle Position Sensor, Temperature Sensor etc etc etc...
Never mind - very frustrating but ultimately back in action... just before we set fire to it... !
-
By ignition switch, do you mean the key switch? They are notorious or causing trouble, but normally it prevents the entire electrical system from turning on. The starter will not run.
Since it appeared that you were able to crank the engine we did not think the switch was behind your problem. In any event, congratulations on getting your bike running. :clap:
-
Thanks for the update. :clap:
-
Yeah, Ignition Switch = Key Switch, that's what we call em in Blighty...
It threw us off the trail too, the Bike always cranked and turned over and the new Digital Speedo lit up so we didn't investigate it whatsoever...
We never suspected it because it apparently was doing what it should - i.e. Turn the Bike on!
It was only when we sensed the heat being built up that we realized what a high resistance it was presenting...
Guessing this was dropping the Power - reducing it to the ECU / ICU and causing the weak sparks we had witnessed.
We'd even taken the Starter off and cleaned that as we always suspected power issues...
-
Thanks for the update. :clap:
You're welcome - we put the tools down for a few weeks, my Brother flew out to Dubai, so we gave it another look and he spotted it...
Moral of the Story - beyond Earthing, check the Ignition switch out... for heat and resistance...
-
Thanks for the update! Putting information into the data bank.