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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: LeMoeur on September 17, 2017, 04:26:22 PM
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Hail, fellowship of the brick!
It's with pain in my heart that I start this thread. Mostly because I know how many of similar-titled posts like this already exist on the forum, and for a long time I've searched thoroughly thru them hoping for an answer and trying all your illuminating tips and trick, sadly without getting to a conclusion. But enought talk.
I've bought almost a year ago a :mm K100 RS 1992 16v, my first ride ever since a 50cc enduro when fourteen. So it is possible that the problems i noticed now were there much before i noticed, due to my inexperience.
The bike is working and takes me from poin A to B with no effort. But there's a list of things i know aren't right.
Problems:
1. It's very hard to get the motor to ignite, so that it takes about 2//3 secs of starter pressed to fire it up.
2. Once the engine is running it suddenly shuts off if i don't rapidly open the throttle OR open the choke lever. So that to ride it in the streets i need to open the choke everytime i stop at the redlight or manouver to park.
3. While driving i SOMETIMES very randomly feel hesitation in the response of the throttle, at times i felt myself in danger as the bike failed to get me away in a takeover or changed my lines when leaning for this very unconsistent throttle control.
4. Always very randomly the engine stalls, particularly when closing throttle or braking, even if clutch pulled in.
5. I'm not sure but i really feel gasoline smell when the bike's running, and (i don't know how it should be normally, to tell tghe truth, but...) fuel economy it's pretty bad... about 7km/l.
6. this is not a proper issue but maybe it's worth mentioning: not everytime i turn the ignition key the oil light would do the same, sometimes it does the flickers and die (randomly!)... ofc there's oil, over half, i can spot it from the window! and has been changed about 1k KM ago.
Last thing you'll have to know it's that my bike has an aftermarket gauge that i wired myself, following various explanations, and proudly wear an RPM filter & neutral relay as rbm teached... (god bless him)
Now i'll list the things i checked/tried with your precious advice:
Done:
1. Checked vacuum tubes (had the vacuum line fromfirst TB's disconnected, but easily re-tightened that) and caps, alongside with crankshaft hose (that was cracked, repaired with autosealing tape, now doesn't leak anymore).
2. Checked resistance @ motronic (MA2.1 non cat) female connector for:
- air temp sensor & water ( 2k ohm @ about 20°C with 3% delta between them )
- TPS values, in range as stated on that holy Frank Warner's fuel economy pdf
( pin 31-25 = 0,77kOhm / pin 31-13 = 1,07kOhm / pin 31-10 = 0,95kOhm )
- CO2 Pot in range, if i've understood my homeworks right ( pin 32-25 = 0,99kOhm / pin 32-28 = 0,32kOhm / pin 25-28 = 0,68kOhm )
Still, when i try to run the error diagnosis from the three-pin connector the flashing overheat light shows me, in this order: error 1133 (HES n°1 fault), error 1122 (HES n°2 fault), error 1215 (TPS plug error) and lastly error 1224 (air temp sensor out of range).
3. Tried to run the bike without the air temp connector ... same as with it on
4. Tried running it without the TPS ... perfect start, without having to long-press the starter, a bit of high idle (over 1k) but engine stalling when fast opening throttle, behaving "more normal" when slowly opening it.
.... it's all that comes to my mind by now. I'm puzzled and open to suggestions.
You are my hope! Good evening,
Alberto
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Hi there,
I have just got my bike running after 11 years of sitting idle and have similar issue. I have checked every input and output on the electrical system and are sure everything is correct.
Getting a little desperate I have turned my attention to the fuel pressure regulator. Not having anything to test it with I decided to put locking pliers on the fuel return line to restrict the flow and increase the pressure in the injector rail, bingo bike starts easy and revs with no hesitation, although a little rich.
Now I will research a suitable replacement.
Cheers
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Hi there,
I have just got my bike running after 11 years of sitting idle and have similar issue. I have checked every input and output on the electrical system and are sure everything is correct.
Getting a little desperate I have turned my attention to the fuel pressure regulator. Not having anything to test it with I decided to put locking pliers on the fuel return line to restrict the flow and increase the pressure in the injector rail, bingo bike starts easy and revs with no hesitation, although a little rich.
Now I will research a suitable replacement.
Cheers
Thanks,
I'll try the very same diy solution right after lunch ^^!
Only one q... aren't fuel lines too stiff to effectively clamp them with pliers? I've already tried with heavy duty clamps, and it seems to me they don't move the hose a bit..
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Lunch...wow I just put the kids to bed.
The fuel lines on my K are original and still quite soft. I didn't block it completely but quite a lot.
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LeMoer, with the 1004V, check the "heat sink paste" on the Ignition Amplifier. Clean and re-plentish.
It will dry out with age and cause funky ignition operation.
IIRC it should be mounted behind the ignition coils, mounted to a metal surface that will dissipate the heat, but not heat it, like the battery box.
For some reason, (like it didn't work out well)..... BMW only used these on the 4V K100's and K1's, and the '93 1100's.
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LeMoer, with the 1004V, check the "heat sink paste" on the Ignition Amplifier. Clean and re-plentish.
It will dry out with age and cause funky ignition operation.
This post shows what it looks like and the link with the post explains what to do.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,8382.msg63872.html#msg63872
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Hi, guys!
After an happy afternoon spent in the garage with my beauty i have some unfortunate updates.
Did that Ignition amplifier thing: disassembled, sanded, cleaned, covered with dissipation paste..
Started the bike and... always the same.
So i moved on to clamp the fuel return from FPR, while applying quite a pressure with a multigrip plier i noticed a distinct fuel smell. fuel hose was well cracked and failed completely. At this point i bitten the bullet and went on to disassemble and replace every fuel hose, alongside with the FPR itself and replaced the vacuum tube (that was literally molten on the nipple from the first TB) with a not too tight fitting transparent hose i found lying around.
Went for a "test" ride (45km)... now the bike seems to act even worse. Long time to start, not keeping idle, and very unresponsive throttle.. plus (new) this time i found it hard to get the bike going over 6k RPMs making it quite difficult to reach speeds over 130//140.
I'm in black dispair.. more puzzled than before.
Thanks for the advice anyway, at least i can add to my "checked" list!
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Bricks do not like sitting and the electrical connections seem to degrade from sitting. I used to work with an ex BMW technician who advised me when I got the bike to go over all the connections with Deoxit . I went a step further and against the advise of some inmates I smeared dielectric or heavy silicone grease around the connectors. I believed that by doing this I would stop the ingress of water air and road crap that leads to corrosion. The only electrical problems I have had was twice in the one connection I had not done due to limited access. Just about everytime I pull a connection apart I spray and reapply the grease. I've had my brick twenty years and it has definitely helped.
Regards Martin.
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Bricks do not like sitting and the electrical connections seem to degrade from sitting. I used to work with an ex BMW technician who advised me when I got the bike to go over all the connections with Deoxit . I went a step further and against the advise of some inmates I smeared dielectric or heavy silicone grease around the connectors. I believed that by doing this I would stop the ingress of water air and road crap that leads to corrosion. The only electrical problems I have had was twice in the one connection I had not done due to limited access. Just about everytime I pull a connection apart I spray and reapply the grease. I've had my brick twenty years and it has definitely helped.
Regards Martin.
Finally managed to get your suggestions practical. Bought a brand new dry contact cleaner, and sprayed all over ECU connector, air temp sensor & TPS.. no luck... still running crappy, long time to ignite, not idling, heavy gasoline smell, specially on starting up.
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change the fuel filter make sure the fuel flow directional arrow is pointed in the correct direction.
Check the valve lash.
Wardie
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Try removing the fuel pump fuse, and see if it will start. If it does start ram the pump fuse back before it dies.
Regards Martin.
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change the fuel filter make sure the fuel flow directional arrow is pointed in the correct direction.
Check the valve lash.
Wardie
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170927/9d26e8fdb4a40f333d9673893835b556.jpg)
Hi Wardie, i posted the image of the inside of the tank, filter replaced by me about 3 months ago, should be in the right direction...
As for the valves.. I read on the forums that 16V hardly needs to have them adjusted, that's why I never checked. Do you think I should?
Try removing the fuel pump fuse, and see if it will start. If it does start ram the pump fuse back before it dies.
Regards Martin.
Thanks Martin, tried your suggestion, as I expected the bike won't start without the fuse (n. 6, right?).
Can you please explain to me the reason for this check? What were we trying to test, exactly?
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Many have mentioned problems with electrical connector underneath tank. I'd check that connector clean and reinstall.
Sounds like your not getting enough fuel consistently. You may want to reach in and pull the pump checking the screen for foreign debris possible restricting fuel pump flow.
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16v engines still need to have the valves checked. At the least after the 1st 25K miles then around every 50K after.
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Still, when i try to run the error diagnosis from the three-pin connector the flashing overheat light shows me, in this order: error 1133 (HES n°1 fault), error 1122 (HES n°2 fault), error 1215 (TPS plug error) and lastly error 1224 (air temp sensor out of range).
You have run tests that show these results in your first post, Alberto. It shows that errors at both Hall Effect Sensors. What does that mean to you? Does it indicate that their wiring should be checked, or that both sensors might need to be replaced?
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Many have mentioned problems with electrical connector underneath tank. I'd check that connector clean and reinstall.
Sounds like your not getting enough fuel consistently. You may want to reach in and pull the pump checking the screen for foreign debris possible restricting fuel pump flow.
It seems to me that I get too much fuel instead, that's just my thinking because I can smell unburnt fuel from the exhaust [emoji848]
16v engines still need to have the valves checked. At the least after the 1st 25K miles then around every 50K after.
It is possible to DIY it? Like in my garage...? And moreover.. if i take off the left carter, would motor oil spill out or it's a separate compartment? Sorry but i'm just a newbie selfmade mechanic [emoji28]
You have run tests that show these results in your first post, Alberto. It shows that errors at both Hall Effect Sensors. What does that mean to you? Does it indicate that their wiring should be checked, or that both sensors might need to be replaced?
For that results I just thought to bypass, because i read from the following doc that these two can be "spurious".. and then focused on the other two.. am i wrong?
I mean, I found very strange that even if the readings @ the ECU connector were perfectly in line with factory values (as given by the very same guide below), the output from the diagnostic pin from the ECU (once reconnected) showed me "Air Temp Sensor Out of Range" and TPS Out of Range" errors.
http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/Motronic%20Fault%20Codes.pdf
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If you are over fuelling removal of the fuel pump fuse will allow the bike to start without pumping more fuel into the combustion chamber. On the 2v bricks running rich can be caused by a faulty temperature sensor or connector which tells the computer it is running cold and needs more fuel to compensate. This results in a flooded engine which wont start. On the 2v Bricks you can get them to start by removing the fuel pump fuse and starting them on the residual fuel that is in the combustion chamber. As the engine uses up this fuel it starts to die, before it dies completely ramming the fuse home before it dies will keep it running. It will however be running rough and a bit of throttle manipulation is required. Two people can achieve this a lot better one to manipulate the throttle one on the fuse. Until I properly cleaned my temperature sensor connector it happened to my Brick twice. I'm not sure if the 4v are the same but it is worth a try.
Regards Martin.
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Sunday updates:
This morning I was thinking about that strage issue that occurs when TPS disconnected... so i decided to head to the garage and do further testing.
Came up that when i twist the throttle (while multimeter connected to measure resistance to both pins @ the ecu) the TPS sensors go crazily up (from 0,9 to 1,4kOhm) at the slightest movement, then reaches the apex (~1,7kOhm) at about 3/4 of the total allowed throttle travel then settles back to a medium value when completely open (~1,5kOhm).
I then tested continuity on the cable and seems allright.. I then have to assume my TPS is faulty... any way to disassemble & repair it?
Moreover, if it is the only problem? Why the bike still runs like crap when i disconnect it?
Thanks guys!
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Why the bike still runs like crap when i disconnect it?
The Motronic needs the signal from the TPS to calculate the fuel mix, as you don't have a AFM as on 2V's.
Have a look in this link (http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2110) how to check and adjust.
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I have used the procedure described in the second link in Inge's post and can say that it works perfectly. No need to even have to get a light, just look at the temperature idiot light.
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The Motronic needs the signal from the TPS to calculate the fuel mix, as you don't have a AFM as on 2V's.
Have a look in this link (http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2110) how to check and adjust.
Thanks Inge, firstly I must say that I found yours and rbm's words illuminating when had to figure out how to wire my aftermarket Koso speedo and get it to work with neutral and steady rpms needle.
Back to ours... Ok that I didn't know, it explains why the bike does not run with TPS disconnected. I did the test and settings as suggested by the page you posted, managed to get a clean and steady .375 V(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171002/940b5bedc30c4b23662528eda90928f3.jpg)
...but the problems still remain, unchanged.
There's any way in wich I can open up and clean the TPS inner contacts?
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Where are you located? It is nice to put your location and model of your bike in your signature line. That way we can know what you are trying to fix. U.S. bikes are different in some ways from others.
Having said that, do you have an OEM exhaust with the O2 sensor? If not and you are in the U.S. you should have a CO2 potentiometer on the front of the relay box above the throttle position sensor. This pot has a screw adjustment for the idle mixture to optimize it for CO2 % in the exhaust. It may be that the pot, if present, is incorrectly adjusted for idle mixture.
Have you tried letting the bike idle for a while at operating temperature, shutting it down and removing the spark plugs to take plug readings? I don't recall seeing a mention of that in earlier posts.
With regard to the engine quitting when you stop, my 1992 RS has the same problem and even though it runs strong and smooth with good fuel mileage it srill wants to quit when stopping from a long run at high speed. Over the past three years I have checked everything in the engine control system with no joy. All I can do is be careful to downshift through all the gears and not just yank the clutch and brakes when coming to a stop.
As a last resort, I may try replacing the voltage regulator on the alternator. It may be that when dropping rpms quickly it is changing the voltage output enough to effect the operation of the motronic system. I suspect this because I think I am seeing the alternator/battery idiot light come on BEFORE the engine dies.
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I don't see any mention of balancing the throttle bodies. If one or more of them are grossly out of adjustment they can cause rough idling and other low rpm issues.
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Having said that, do you have an OEM exhaust with the O2 sensor? If not and you are in the U.S. you should have a CO2 potentiometer on the front of the relay box above the throttle position sensor. This pot has a screw adjustment for the idle mixture to optimize it for CO2 % in the exhaust. It may be that the pot, if present, is incorrectly adjusted for idle mixture.
Check #2 under "Done" in first post.
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I've found this, while surfin' the mighty net...
http://www.ukgser.com/technical/nick/Throttle-Position%20Sensor%20%28All%20BMW%20models,%20'04%20on%29%20V1.0.pdf
I will proceed to apply this guide to my dear K (during the weekend) and see if it happens to be similar. I'll keep you guy updated!
@MightyGryph: Sorry i was quite sure of having update my profile with location data, i'll check asap... Btw i'm from Italy
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Latest updates, guys.
Not really a big progress but any new discover is still something isn't it? Went straight ahead with the plan to disassemble the TPS after having checked what i think it's the most important culprit of its malfunction: the fact that a full open throttle shows me much more ohms than when it's only 3/4 from the limit.
Only thing was that the soab is in a sealed plastic box.. impossible to open if not broken apart. So i just settled on cleaning it with some contact cleaner, shaking the thing to assure for the product to reach every part inside.
Before mounting it back i tested it on the bench with multimeter and it seemed to work ok. After re-bolting it back on the throttle rail, checked for the right voltage between pins 1-4 as inge's guide suggested and retested. All fine.. ~2k Ohm at full throttle and ~1,8k Ohm @ 3/4.
Now the interesting part: when tested with the cable connected (both at the ECU end and right at the bottom of the connectior on the TPS) the readings went haywire, like always!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171008/19579ed8a8fade1487a7074328bce2bf.jpg)
I happened to find this schematic of the motronic 2.1 that gave me an idea... disconnected the CO pot that shares that 25 pin as shown above (even if I didn't realize what's its function) and voilà.. TPS in range again!
(Also tried messing with the CO pot screw, but with no luck..)
Any idea?
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LeMoeur:
I am Acute Toxicity, the BMI (Bureau Of Motobrick.com Investigations) Agent In Charge (formerly known as Brunhilda).
It has been brought to my attention by the DMJ (Department Of Motobrick.com Justice) that you violated motobrick.com protocol by not exhausting the Posting Guidance Requirements (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,3995.0.html) provided to you here at motobrick.com.
This is your notification that another occurrence will trigger disturbing sanctions.
AT
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LeMoeur:
I am Acute Toxicity, the BMI (Bureau Of Motobrick.com Investigations) Agent In Charge (formerly known as Brunhilda).
It has been brought to my attention by the DMJ (Department Of Motobrick.com Justice) that you violated motobrick.com protocol by not exhausting the Posting Guidance Requirements (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,3995.0.html) provided to you here at motobrick.com.
This is your notification that another occurrence will trigger disturbing sanctions.
AT
Oh man, you mean the signature! I'm utmost sorry... I was sure of having added the specs but that stupid tapatalk app didn't let me see! Now that i've updated my profile i hope to be back into legality :yes
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7km/liter equates to about 14 liters/100km. That is about three times as high as it should be. No wonder you smell gasoline. My K75 uses about 4.3l/100km.
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Hi guys, long time no see!
I have some updates for you.. being a mindless clumsy pal i decided on Monday night to make pour about 7 liters of diesel in my K (obviously on an almost empty tank [emoji6]) . The bike didn't take it too well.. she ran fine for like 1km the started to sob and make a big white smoke screen then stopped. Even then I didn't realize the mistake made.
Once i found out (with the help of a more sensible-nosed friend) i disassembled my fuel lines to pump out the bad blood from the tank.. to do this i intermittently switched on and of the ignition key to get help from the fuel pump priming.
In fact only draining the tank and adding fresh petrol wasn't enough so i went on to:
1. Change plug sparks
2. Change fuel filter
3. Disassemble injectior rail
4. Remove injectors, spray them w/ carb cleaner and replacing old (and quite expensive) o rings
Still the bike wouldn't start.
I noticed that after about 5 seconds of having depressed the start button the fuel pump would make a noise like bubbles coming out of it. So i pointed my attention to the fuel pressure regulator, disassembled it and drained its fuely content.
No change.
Then i tried to disconnect the fuel return line from the FPR to the tank (@ the tank) and retried to start. The bike started fine (still some smoke) no fuel dripping fron the disconnected hose. Then i reassembled the hose, the bike started but died after a short while. Unsuccessfully tried to start it again. Then disconnected the very same hose from before et voilà. Started again!
Have i a bad FPR?
It's possible that this also caused the problems pictured in the first post?
Could the vacuum line from FPR to the first TB be the cause? (It's old and seems in a bad shape but no visible leaks)
Thanks again!
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Have i a bad FPR?
It's possible that this also caused the problems pictured in the first post?
Could the vacuum line from FPR to the first TB be the cause? (It's old and seems in a bad shape but no visible leaks)
The straightest course of action now is to replace the hose that is old and in bad shape (perhaps that means unattractive or un-stylish to you). :yes Anyway, it's cheap and simple enough to do.
Good persistance, LeMoeur.
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I did the dumb diesel fill-up, discovered only when the bike stalled about 10 feet from the pump. I replaced the diesel in the tank with gasoline and after about 5 seconds of coughing and belching black smoke, the engine started and has run perfectly since. No need to change any parts.
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Hi everybody!
Long time no see.... again!
Had strange times since i decided to force my bike to run on diesel... Last thing i said before we parted was that i started the bike and then managed to take it home to the garage, well there are some updates.
When i started the bike again from the garage last weekend all went (quite) well.. long starter down to fire it up as usual for me.. few bogs downs, revved to up 2k RPMs and she was ready to ride. It ran like never before with perfect throttle response and steady idle! Went down to my local DIY shop to search for a (rare as an unicorn) 8mm T joint to fit my brand new fuel pressure gauge (involved in diagnosing my endless bike-probs), when back on saddle the unfaithful one wouldn't start.
So started doing random things like key on-key off, opening fuel cap, disconnecting return hose and such. Finally quite randomly she fired up.
Back home, safe again, i foolishly recorded this event on my register as "sometimes can happen". Silly me.
Next day, i drive down to get my belly overstuffed by my grandma.. nice lunch, pasta, cuz ya know we're in italy mammamia! Happy as a sumo fighter on drugs i hop on my bike and.. guess.. no start! This time random fiddling didn't help.
So i had to pull off again the spark plugs to find them quite wet. changed them with spare ones. still no start. metal-brushed the previous ones and cooked both on kitchen fire to clean them. disconnected fuel hose from injector rail to FPR to make sure pressure didn't build up too much in it and found that there was quite few pressure, instead. lastly checked values from CO2 pot and brought them to 70/30 (leaner). the bike finally ran.
Following what Laitch said i checked my vacuum hose and it seems to keep pressure and not leaking.
The straightest course of action now is to replace the hose that is old and in bad shape (perhaps that means unattractive or un-stylish to you). :yes Anyway, it's cheap and simple enough to do.
Good persistance, LeMoeur.
So... to avoid further stranding at the side of the street i decided to order a brand new FPR. today it arrived. i installed it.
Guess what?
NO F**KIN START!
Ah... only sometimes i can hear bubbles from the pump just as it would pump back out fuel excess. Moreover, i think that's unrelated but...: from under the seat i have found a cut off cable that goes to the first pin of the diagnosing plug (brown black wire).
I'm really starting to run out of ideas
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Hi guys. Always me. Decided to not start another thread just to reduce the pollution on the forum.
The problem's still the same. I replaced, shortly after last post, the TPS. The brick fired up after few revs but kept on white-smoking from the exhaust and after shutting off there was no way to start her again.
Decided then to change fuel filter and put new sparks, in the meanwhile i managed to clean the fuel tank from very dirty fuel and lots of debris. While reassembling the fuel pump's output nipple broke off so i went to my local dealer to change iit... checking with him we found the specs for the old pump i had.. it spat out only 1.5 Bars of fuel (2.5 from OEM)! Could have been the cause of all the trouble?
So i bought a new one (3.8Bar, bit overpressurizing but i heard of a guy in another foorum that fitted a similar one in his k100 and ran fine.. that's what the FPR is here for, isn't it?). Back home i installed the new pump and what i get is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF7gOiBJqqU
Sounds pretty alarming to me. Watcha say?
I doon't know where to bump my head atm
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Decided to not start another thread just to reduce the pollution on the forum.
That was a good move. Keep with this thread until there is a solution. :2thumbup:
- What were the gap settings of the spare plugs you installed?
- What is your battery's resting voltage? In the video it sounds weak.
- In Reply #29 you write that you sprayed the injectors with carb cleaner and replaced o-rings. Since then, have you checked the injectors for their ability to spray fuel? Are the plugs still wet when the bike won't start?
- Are you activating the choke or twisting the throttle when attempting to start the bike?
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That was a good move. Keep with this thread until there is a solution. :2thumbup:
- What were the gap settings of the spare plugs you installed?
- What is your battery's resting voltage? In the video it sounds weak.
- In Reply #29 you write that you sprayed the injectors with carb cleaner and replaced o-rings. Since then, have you checked the injectors for their ability to spray fuel? Are the plugs still wet when the bike won't start?
- Are you activating the choke or twisting the throttle when attempting to start the bike?
Laitch you are always on point. Thanks :2thumbup:
1. I didn't check the gapps but they are brand new NGK from the recommended compatible ones (had pretty new X5DC Bosch but decided to test if Diesel could have fouled them after the mistake..even after the cleaning with metal brush)
2. Yep battery it's pretty low like 11.8V but i thought it wouldn't make so much difference since last time it started. (Ok i see that i am a fool)
3. I didn't check for the spray pattern ATM but last time they did spray, altough not in a very "sprayshly" style...
4. No choke, i try with no to very little throttle twisting (increasing at each retry).
Aren't you worried by the burst of smoke that you can see from the video? I'm pretty preoccupied by what it could mean! :mbird
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1. I didn't check the gapps but they are brand new NGK from the recommended compatible ones (had pretty new X5DC Bosch but decided to test if Diesel could have fouled them after the mistake..even after the cleaning with metal brush)
Aren't you worried by the burst of smoke that you can see from the video? I'm pretty preoccupied by what it could mean!
New plugs need to be checked for gap meeting specifications.
I'm not worried about the smoke because that's happening on your bike, not mine. :giggles Don't get preoccupied. Don't twist the throttle when starting it. Don't increase the twisting when it fails to start. Start it with a fully charged battery.
The injector fuel stream should be a strong stream but it doesn't need to be a mist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tS8kPqnIY4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tS8kPqnIY4)
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Hi guys! Happy holidays... at least for you... owners of working bricks :dunno2:
I'm reporting back after some homemade good wrenching done with the wise supervision of the great Laitch.
To write down all the frustration and disappointment my bike is giving me in these needy times i made up a scheme-timeline of all that has been done to track down the problem.
Hope you'll enjoy it as much as i DON'T do!
And here's a link to the video i made 2 days ago (yep Christmas eve!) of what my K is doing now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD_VXm1wwPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD_VXm1wwPI)
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It looks like the fuel pump is priming the injector before starting, but doesn't run once the engine starts. I think the signal to make the pump run comes from the hall sensors. Since the engine fires on the starter then quits, this signal may not be getting to the Motronic. Have you checked and cleaned the large connector on the motronic unit?
Do you still have the side stand cutout switch? While unlikely, it's still possible that this switch is causing trouble. I'm thinking that vibration may be making it switch off the engine.
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It looks like the fuel pump is priming the injector before starting, but doesn't run once the engine starts. I think the signal to make the pump run comes from the hall sensors. Since the engine fires on the starter then quits, this signal may not be getting to the Motronic. Have you checked and cleaned the large connector on the motronic unit?
I checked seated and reseated a lot of times... I'll try to spray again some connector cleaner just in case...
Do you still have the side stand cutout switch? While unlikely, it's still possible that this switch is causing trouble. I'm thinking that vibration may be making it switch off the engine.
That's great! i have it and it is in a REALLY bad shape as the cables are kinked and twisted... so i repaired itsome weeks ago with some tape! I'll try to jumper it,then!
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I'll try to jumper it,then!
You can use a IEC 60320 - C1 plug (as commonly used on shavers) for this.
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Nothing to do... connector-cleaned all the connectors (along with the fuel tank one) on the right side under the fairing + jumpered side stand switch.
10 starting attempts: 7 no go, 2 just 1 second, 1 few seconds then shut off. :dunno
Just a doubt... when replacing the fuel pump, i had no clue of wich terminal of the new pump would have been positive or negative (no indications) so... given that i have A LOT of fuel and pressure in the rail... could the pump's terminal swapping affect my bike in any way?
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Just a doubt... when replacing the fuel pump, i had no clue of wich terminal of the new pump would have been positive or negative
Does that mean you are not using a workshop manual to guide you, LeMoeur, and instead are following instructions sent by the mothership into your dental work and from there directly into your brain? :giggles Is the mothership responsible for guiding you to the diesel pump? I'd give up on that method if I were you.
Following is a tip from one of the many manuals downloadable for free online but you might need to test those Hall Sensors and their connections after all.
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Does that mean you are not using a workshop manual to guide you, LeMoeur, and instead are following instructions sent by the mothership into your dental work and from there directly into your brain? :giggles Is the mothership responsible for guiding you to the diesel pump? I'd give up on that method if I were you.
You are right my dear... my bad for being so clumsy that day, at the gas station! :falldown: However I have that workshop manual by bmw and i often read of your previous experiences here on the forum, but this time in my defence i have to say that i already had a non-OEM fuel pump with different connector cables that are really the same size, and on the pump there're no sign of orientation marks. It meant that makes no difference to me :yes but wanted to check anyway with you guys!
Following is a tip from one of the many manuals downloadable for free online but you might need to test those Hall Sensors and their connections after all.
That's for sure... i have it written down for the to do list of the next days :2thumbup:
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It meant that makes no difference to me :yes
It only makes a difference to the fuel system, but with your lighthearted approach, I believe success is just around the corner anyway. Just keep the wheels planted. Before you know it, you'll join the rest of us in telling people to do things for their bikes that don't often work for them, then buying their bikes to salvage the parts from them.
:2thumbup:
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You can use a IEC 60320 - C1 plug (as commonly used on shavers) for this.
... in Europe. IEC60320 C7/C8 (Figure 8 style) plugs are more prevalent in North America. This style might still fit; worth a try.
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... in Europe.
The OP lives in Italy.
IEC60320 C7/C8
C7 C/C distance is 8.6mm, C1 C/C is 6.6mm.
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Just tested Hall Sensors.. led light goes perfectly off when magnet activated! So no problems here
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Hi Guys! Tired of sitting brainless riding your flaming Ks on the streets all smiling and such while i weep in my garage? Now it's time to get brains going!
My story stopped in december when for pure luck i found a way to reset the motronic wich involved simply pulling off fuse #5 for like 10 mins. Bike started, i went for a little cautious ride then back to the garage to finish all the aesthetics.
3 weeks ago i decided was time to go for a test ride. bike started... big white smoke... not keeping idle... then shut off... i managed to fire it up once or twice after, but always like that. soaking wet plugs. Assumption: too much fuel pressure (againnn!?)
messed around with fuel pump.. switched to an old one that gave few psi less than advised.
now can't even start once. the engine is turning but somehow not firing up... spark plugs: dry. doubt: injectors are working?
i pull off the whole rail. no spray. at all. from no one. although if i directly put one injector shorted to battery and ground it sprays. same if i ground them (Mind: only while pressing the starter button, obviously).
Bad Motronic?
I tryied the old fuse-reset method: no way.
Now the fun part.. i've found a post from a guy on another forum that states: "to reset motronic you should ground pin #1 on the 3-pin diagnose connector under the seat, turn on the ignition but do not start the engine, count 5 seconds, remove the ground momentarily and then ground it again for 5 seconds, turn off the ignition".
When i do this, as soon as i remove the grounding the fan goes on, and it "flashes" in the same way as the speedometer bulb does. :yow [Edit2: ok, i'm a fool, this is fan test... :dunno ]
[Edit: things that i know that work.. i have fuel pressure (fuel gauge indicating about 30 psi); fuel pump running; battery just charged]
Please.. i beg for another little fix of K Wisdom
Yours Truly,
LeMoeur
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Guys i’m happy to say i quite randomly (then in the end, instead, very specifically) sorted things out.
I’ll spare you all the thorough research i had to do altogether with my trusty neighbor working things out by ourselves on the Motronic 2.1 scheme... lastly the culpritfor all this mess was the....
(Suspance)
... Ignition Switch!!
Found out that at its terminals it sucked up 9v of current giving only 3v to the poor pump & injectors. So i pried it open, cleaned and brushed the contacts, put it back together with sone tape (cuz obviously the plastic casing of the switch blew into pieces on my opening attempts) and now she fires up like a charm! [emoji7]
I still have white smoke and rough idle to fix... but that’s.......... a start (pun intended).
Thanks for the attention and cooperation!
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That is great news! So another ignition switch rears to bite an owner.
I have had problems with that switch in two of four bricks I have owned. It is now one of the first maintenance items when I purchase a new brick. There is a reason why that switch is #4 on Johnny's list of major whack sources.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11033.0.html
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That is great news! So another ignition switch rears to bite an owner.
I have had problems with that switch in two of four bricks I have owned. It is now one of the first maintenance items when I purchase a new brick. There is a reason why that switch is #4 on Johnny's list of major whack sources.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11033.0.html
Oh, wow i get to see this beautiful post only now!
It came to my attention, while doing this search to track down my problem, is that there’s little to no literature about 4v bikes. And if there, it’s only found fragmented into posts throughout the internet, in various different sites, like bmwoa, k100forum and of course this one.
So for the little but critical differences that our bike has i thought that would be useful to make a pinned post or maybe anoter “Bert Vogel-style” pdf to gather them all (‘and in the darkness bind them’).
If anybody’s interested in the project i’ll be happy to assemble it in my spare time.. so welcome PMs!
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I think that is a great idea. I have a 4V bike as well and seem to find more often than not that what applies to a 2V bike does not apply to mine.
For your reference this is a great site K1100 Owners forum (http://k11og.org/forum/index.php) it is aimed at K1100's but they are almost identical in most ways to the 16v K100's, certainly more like them than the 2V bike are.
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Guys... after all this time i had to finally go and see the mechanic. Only he could do the TB sync i thought needed to do to make things better for my beloved.
So it was, some syncing, some US cleaning for the TBs and a good regulation of the CO2 pot made my bike run sooo much smoother, or at least it can now keep the idle without stalling.
Although there are still a lot of problems..:
1. Stalling when cold if i do a quick twist of the throttle (on closing)
2. Strange “power surge” or “sobbing” whatever it’s called from 2k to 4k RPMs only under load (i mean it doesn’t happen when in neutral)
3. Terrible mileage.. like.. 7,5km/l or.. 4,7mi/l
Things i’ve done.. changing the HT leads to new NGK ones.. while doing that i found the spark plugs to be in bright shape..... [emoji57]
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180704/6cec11b6b4916c21f05cd9c08a5cc874.jpg)
Obviously changing the leads led (pun intended) to nothing.
Now i found this strange plate light behavior:
https://youtu.be/HAzCsYDOjJw
Any suggestion, Sherlocks?
Thanks as always for your kind collab
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Regarding engine performance: have you checked the engine temperature sensor located behind the radiator? A bad sensor will lead to a lot of over rich running issues like poor high speed running and poor fuel efficiency.
Flickering light: I would check/change the bulb and clean the electrical connections behind the taillight assembly. Engine vibrations are shaking a loose/dirty connection or a damaged filament in the bulb.
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Regarding engine performance: have you checked the engine temperature sensor located behind the radiator? A bad sensor will lead to a lot of over rich running issues like poor high speed running and poor fuel efficiency.
Flickering light: I would check/change the bulb and clean the electrical connections behind the taillight assembly. Engine vibrations are shaking a loose/dirty connection or a damaged filament in the bulb.
I’ll be getting new sensors in a week, i’ll then proceed to write here if i find any changes.. i see that they are quite cheap and it’s not bad to have some cool new gear under a classy old lady!
Regarding the flicker.. it’s not the bulb for sure as... it has no bulb, it’s led [emoji12] but i’ll do the connector check thing, thanks. So.. you think rough running it’s higly unrelated to this? Because i found that some of the lights started to act strange, and they appear to be in synch with throttle twisting moves.. moreover i had sporadical “no pump priming” issues, that resolved by themselves [emoji848]
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change the fuel filter make sure the fuel flow directional arrow is pointed in the correct direction.
It seems to be too simple, but check the fuel line from the filter to see if it has swelled. Only replace this line with fuel line designated for immersion in fuel. DO NOT use the line supplied with replacement filters, it will not survive long immersed in gasoline.