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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: docrocket on August 15, 2017, 10:40:34 AM
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Hi all,
I bought a K1100rs that is having a funny issue. It's happened 4 times now.
So, I start the bike up, ride for 5-20minutes, then it dies; feels like there's no gas getting to the engine. I pull over turn the key off/on and hit the starter. I repeat this 5-10 times - usually over the course of about 5 minutes. The bike then slowly starts to sound like it's getting fuel - i.e. it'll stay running for 2 seconds, then die, then 5 seconds on subsequent restarts, the die, etc. Eventually after these 5-10 tries, it'll start up and run with no issue for hours.
Anyone encountered anything like this?? I'm puzzled.
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greetings...
top 5 causes for k1100rt no start are here...
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/board,9.0.html
proally the 4pin...
j o
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docrocket:
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A T
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greetings...
did you run the vin to verify it is a 94... the reason i ask is because if its really a 93 it might be the heatsink...
post up a side photo... wanna see if its abs1 or abs2...
proally the 4pin though...
j o
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+1 on the 4 pin connector. I just had a very similar issue the other morning with quitting, hard starting and inability to rev the engine without stalling. Being familiar with the whack that connector causes it was the first thing I checked. A shot of DeOxit and a bit of a wiggle and things are back to normal now.
That connector is on the top of my list of winter projects.
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Thanks for the help, guys. The problem seemed so intermittent that I was hesitant to blame the 4 pin connector, but sounds like you've had similar symptoms. I'll spray some de-ox in there n give it another go.
Big thanks for the help fellas. I'll report back with findings.
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Here's hoping that's your problem. My brain isn't up to going much further.
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So, I've gone through all the electrical whack recommendations.. I even completely replaced the 4-pin connector. And it's still dying on me. It seems to die out sooner now.. i.e. after 5 minutes of riding.
Other things I tried in addition to the Whack fixes:
-checked pump filter (perfect)
-replaced spark plugs.. cuz why not?
After checking the pump filter, I let the bike run with the gas cap off and noticed a lot of gas being pumped out at the top of the tank (video below). Is this normal?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SjLA3OBSepkqliHqWzyPWq4Uklz8vWi_fg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SjLA3OBSepkqliHqWzyPWq4Uklz8vWi_fg/view?usp=sharing)
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Is this normal?
Yes, 100%. That is excess fuel being returned to the tank by the pressure regulator.
From what I've read, you could have a HES problem that shows up with heat. There's a blow dryer test to help identify this condition. Something sounds a bit whack with the ignition in that video to me.
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Freeze spray is also a good alternative for chasing overheating electrical problem. A cheaper method to freeze spray is to pack crushed ice in an old bathroom flannel and apply to the suspected hot spot.
Regards Martin.
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Yes, 100%. That is excess fuel being returned to the tank by the pressure regulator.
From what I've read, you could have a HES problem that shows up with heat. There's a blow dryer test to help identify this condition. Something sounds a bit whack with the ignition in that video to me.
Yea, +1 on the sound of the ignition not being normal. Something is causing the ignition to cut out.
BTW looking at the Video, you have an RS. Never heard of an 1100 having an RT variant.
So you just bought this bike. Did it ever run for you without issues? Makes me wonder if this was the reason it was up for sale........
With the 94's and later, the ignition is affected/controlled by, HES, the Motronic, and the coils.
HES issues are usually due to heat, causing them to fail/fault until they cool off, hence the "hair dryer/heat gun" test.
When the bike is making those "hick-up/miss-fire" sounds, what is the response of the Tachometer? does it bounce with the miss.
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There are so many things that can cause the symptoms you describe. I had very similar issues, though not as persistent as yours. There are so many questions you have left unanswered? Can you hear the pump come on when you turn on the key when it dies on you? Have you pulled a plug and grounded it to see if you have good spark when it won't start. Pulled the gas line to see if you are getting gas to the fuel rail if the pump is working? Be aware it will be pressurized if it is working properly. Point it in a safe direction. Have you run fault codes? There is no magic wand. You need to do a bunch of reading here at the forum, as Acute Toxicity has graciously suggested. And systematically start to eliminate the many things that can cause your symptoms. Mine finally stopped doing this when I purged the fuel lines. But at the same time I also cleaned and detoxed the temp sensor connections. And this was after testing the Hess, messing with the four pin and many other connections. The kill switch. The side stand kill switch, and a bunch on other stuff. In more than five k it has only quit on me once since. I was driving hard on a very hot day, and I think the gas boiled and got vapor locked. I let it sit for a bit and it started right up.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,9987.msg85367.html#msg85367
I am Acute Toxicity, the Agent In Charge at the DMJ (Department Of Motobrick.com Justice).
The BMI (Bureau Of Motobrick.com Investigations) has confirmed that you violated motobrick.com protocol by not exhausting the search options available at motobrick.com.
This is your notification that another occurrence will trigger sanctions.
The protocol is located here for your review and compliance as defiance is futile. (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,3995.0.html)
A T
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried the dryer trick; no change in the sound of the engine or time to cutting out. I did however notice while down there that one of the radiator lines looked like it was under a vacuum (pic attached). I read somewhere that this could be due to the radiator cap, so i removed the cap and started it again.. the hose rounded out a bit towards normal shape, but the engine sounded the same. Seems curious that the coolant line is under negative pressure and it seems like I'm having a heat related issue, yeah?
Can you hear the pump come on when you turn on the key when it dies on you?
-Yes
Have you pulled a plug and grounded it to see if you have good spark when it won't start.
-on my ever-growing list..
Pulled the gas line to see if you are getting gas to the fuel rail if the pump is working?
-On the list
you run fault codes?
-listed
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I start the bike up, ride for 5-20minutes, then it dies; feels like there's no gas getting to the engine. I pull over turn the key off/on and hit the starter. I repeat this 5-10 times - usually over the course of about 5 minutes. The bike then slowly starts to sound like it's getting fuel - i.e. it'll stay running for 2 seconds, then die, then 5 seconds on subsequent restarts, the die, etc. Eventually after these 5-10 tries, it'll start up and run with no issue for hours.
When it dies and you hit the starter, do you also flip the choke lever to the half or full position?
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My 92 did the same thing. I put 1 gallon of tune-up in a bottle in the tank and topped it off with Sunoco off road racing fuel. After 200 miles on the extraterrestrial highway, it never did it again.
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Use this method for searching, the search engine here is not so good. This is much more effective and productive.(thank you Laitch) Make sure you have the correct codes for your bike year and motronic unit.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,9737.0.html (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,9737.0.html)
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When it dies and you hit the starter, do you also flip the choke lever to the half or full position?
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I've tried it in about every position possible. Why do you ask?
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I did however notice while down there that one of the radiator lines looked like it was under a vacuum .... Seems curious that the coolant line is under negative pressure and it seems like I'm having a heat related issue, yeah?
That collapsed line is a sign of restriction or blockage somewhere in the system. Blockage / restriction could also cause overheating, engine shuts itself down to prevent damage when an overheated condition occurs.
Seems like reasonable theory to me.. could it be a stuck / sticking thermostat.?.
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Seems like coolant is not returning from the overflow tank as the engine cools. Check the rad cap and overflow hose?
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When it dies and you hit the starter, do you also flip the choke lever to the half or full position?
I've tried it in about every position possible. Why do you ask?
I ask because I'm trying to understand exactly what you've done when this condition has occurred.
A local K75 presented similar symptoms. The bike would start and run well until sometime later in the day when it would shut down at idle. The operator would give it full "choke" and it would start. He'd shut off the choke and the bike would start and run well the rest of the day. This problem and its remedy occurred on a few consecutive days.
I removed the fuel cap assembly and fuel from the tank to look for debris. I found a relatively clean tank interior but the fuel pump seem mounted too low in its holder. Figuring that if the pump were somehow resting on the bottom of the tank, it might be causing an intermittent fuel restriction, I removed the whole pump assembly. I re-positioned the pump upwards in its holder so the vibration damper would grip it between the two beads on the pump body as it was designed to do. I re-attached the filter basket to the damper then remounted the whole assembly.
I've received no reports of the bike having stalled since that was done several months ago. I saw the bike flying down I-89 the other day, Burlington-bound.
Your coolant hose should not look like that. If the bike is approaching overheating, the fan should be running. The overheat lamp should be lit if the fan doesn't run and the bike is overheating. Eventually the cap should blow to release pressure if there is acute overheating and no relief. You should consider replacing the cap, replacing the hose, checking the thermostat, flushing the coolant system, replacing the coolant and checking the operation of both the fan and the overheat light if you haven't done so already.